To Bullettooth: A question.... | Forums

[Spawn316]

...is it possible that instead of ELO our stats could be ranked according to kill/death ratio? Personally I feel that would be a better indicator of how good a player is or works within a team rather than the confusing, obscure ELO system.

The current system, although flawed, had a guy that had very few kills and a TON of deaths. Sure he may have killed high ranking guys, but the high ranking guys I saw we newbies or sucky players as well. Whereas I've played with guys with over 10,000 kills and fewer than 3,000 deaths, yet their ELOs were in the 3000s. I understand the current ELO is messed up, but even if it's fixed, the stat is still useless IMO. I know of nobody that sought out players with high ELOs to defeat; most people try to hook up with their friends and see who can get the most kills. If some guy walked into the room with a high kill/death ration, then the guys on the other team tried to take that player out. I have yet to hear anybody say, "oh here comes Jester, he's got a 20,000 ELO, so he's GOOD!!"

My humble recommendation would be to get ridda ELO altogether and rank players based on their kill/death ratio. That would probably be easy, since the game already calculates it, and it's easily understood and reasonable. Plus this would allow us to keep our kills.

I understand that there are times when players may come into a room where guys are used to playing together and will pick on a group of guys that have never played before. That will always happen, regardless of an ELO fix. Once again, I have never heard anyone come into a lobby and say they're concerned about ELO. It's always been about the kills (of course, it could be that I'm around a buncha homocidal lunatics as well. LOL) But seriously, this game is about taking out the other team while protecting yourself and your teammates. The kill/death ratio measures this accurately; the ELO does not.

I'm fortunate in that I've only got just under 1300, but there are guys who have live on Xbox Live and gotten well over 10,000 kills who'll probably be p'oed! LOL

[Spawn316]

...is it possible that instead of ELO our stats could be ranked according to kill/death ratio? Personally I feel that would be a better indicator of how good a player is or works within a team rather than the confusing, obscure ELO system.

The current system, although flawed, had a guy that had very few kills and a TON of deaths. Sure he may have killed high ranking guys, but the high ranking guys I saw we newbies or sucky players as well. Whereas I've played with guys with over 10,000 kills and fewer than 3,000 deaths, yet their ELOs were in the 3000s. I understand the current ELO is messed up, but even if it's fixed, the stat is still useless IMO. I know of nobody that sought out players with high ELOs to defeat; most people try to hook up with their friends and see who can get the most kills. If some guy walked into the room with a high kill/death ration, then the guys on the other team tried to take that player out. I have yet to hear anybody say, "oh here comes Jester, he's got a 20,000 ELO, so he's GOOD!!"

My humble recommendation would be to get ridda ELO altogether and rank players based on their kill/death ratio. That would probably be easy, since the game already calculates it, and it's easily understood and reasonable. Plus this would allow us to keep our kills.

I understand that there are times when players may come into a room where guys are used to playing together and will pick on a group of guys that have never played before. That will always happen, regardless of an ELO fix. Once again, I have never heard anyone come into a lobby and say they're concerned about ELO. It's always been about the kills (of course, it could be that I'm around a buncha homocidal lunatics as well. LOL) But seriously, this game is about taking out the other team while protecting yourself and your teammates. The kill/death ratio measures this accurately; the ELO does not.

I'm fortunate in that I've only got just under 1300, but there are guys who have live on Xbox Live and gotten well over 10,000 kills who'll probably be p'oed! LOL

[Scrub50187]

The ELO is being redone so that you can't steal someones ELO. They are fixing that so it is accurate. My guess it will work like if you have a low ELO and kill someone with a high one it will go up fast. if you kill lots of people with lower elo's it will take some time for it to gain more......this way good players want to play with good players or a newbie can come in with a low elo and you get killed by him it will lower it quick. but if you play with people with about the same elo it will be more of a challenge.

[.BulletTooth.]

Kill death ratio is not an accurate depiction of the skill of a player. Perhaps someone with high deaths plays against very difficult players, thus they are rewarded more for when they finally are able to defeat the tough players. Like many other people say, someone could just sit there and pick off n00bs all day and get a really high kill-to-death ratio, which would not be an accurate representation of their skill. If you would like an example, get BF Tracks (it's a stat tracker) and go play Battlefield 1942 sometime. There are plenty of people that sit there at the bases and just continually fire on foot soldiers with a tank. Now come on, how hard is it to sit there with a tank and take out infantry? Does that show any real type of skill whatsoever?

BulletTooth


<font color="#319A00">Casey 'BulletTooth' Keefe</font>
<font color=white>Community Manager - Tom Clancy</font>

<font color=white>"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"</font>

[This message was edited by BulletTooth.50 on Thu January 15 2004 at 08:57 AM.]

[HybriX_maZ]

ELO is definately superior when coded correctly. We will wait and see..

[bry223]

The problem with the orginal posters idea is it'll be just like every other online game with a k/d ratio, someone will be so desperate to be #1 he'll kill his guy on his other xbox with an XBL account or get his buddy friends to die so he can get his kills up.

[HybriX_maZ]

Yeah the ELO system makes it so if you kill a friend (or your other box) all day long, you still won't go up in rank. This is how it ought to be. Keep it fair. As long as the ELO works everything will be good.



[This message was edited by HybriX_maZ on Fri January 09 2004 at 05:54 PM.]

[Spawn316]

I may be spoiled, because I rarely play with people I don't know, but for some clown to waste his time killing his friends to jack up stats is only doing a disservice to himself. Even with a revised ELO, there will still be ways to exploit it. Guys who go into a game thinking only about ELO or some silly ranking instead of having fun and getting kills on the other team is pretty much a loser anyway IMO.

I guess I'm one of the few that could care less about ELO because most of the guys I play with are pretty much on my level. None of us care about ELO, but kills are a different thing. That's the one thing we compare amongst ourselves, but once again, if you all think that the majority of people play with/against strangers, then I can see the partiality towards an ELO. But what I've found is I'll play with my clan against other clans and ocassionally run scrimmages where newbies or strangers float in and out, and occasionally we'll hook up in matches later down the road. But once again, it was always about the kills.

My main question is why can't there be a system where the current kills remain? If ELO is the problem, and it's a formula, then change the formula. There's no need to wipe out the variables that the formula uses to calculate it's results.

I'm sure the game will be good either way, so long as the wall bug goes away! LOL

[Aleko10]

How about everyone stops whining about how they want it. How about we get it the way they make it, cuz im sure that is the best way considering that is there JOB! So be stop saying " dont reset stats, dont reset ELO"... Maybe they have reasons to, maybe if they dont reset one thing it will screw up the other thing.. Anyways who gives a damn.. its a freakin game.. go somewhere else and complain

[jrtallen]

ELO is probably the only real choice for a ranking system.

It has been used for DECADES to rank chess players, and works VERY well.

It is also used to rank teams in sports, and has been shown to be very accurate in predicting game outcomes.

Kill ratio is basically meaningless. Who are you killing?

Gary Kasparov didn't get his 2500+ rating by beating ME thousands of times. He got it by beating the strongest players.

The St. Bonaventure Men's basketball team may go undefeated next year, but no one will claim they are better than the NBA team with the worst record. The win/loss records can't be compared because the competition in each case is different.

A functioning Elo will make the game more enjoyable. You will have nothing to lose by playing stronger players, and nothing to gain by slaughtering newbies.

XBL gamertag=GhostKiller