1. #1

    Dear Devs, please fix the scoring system

    First off, I really enjoy the game. It's been a long time (since Amped 2) that I've played a snowboarding game so much. However, I've got a bit of a gripe about the scoring system, and from the looks of a lot of posts on this forum, reddit, and youtube comments, I'm not the only 1.

    So, this might sound a bit like sour grapes (and maybe a small part of it is!), but I came in 4th in that snowboard giveaway challenge a month or so ago (Mstifye was the winner, Congrats I guess...!).

    Well, I hit a lot of the same jumps the winner did, I kept a flow for the most part, no 2 consecutive jumps were done with the same trick/grab (front flip nose anyone?), and I even figured out a way of squeezing a tree-bonk/bump into the line, so you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that out of the 3 people beating me, the top scorer had pretty much front flip nose grabbed their way down the slope, stopping and going slightly uphill on a lot of the jumps.

    Repetitive tricks, and coming to a stop would undoubtedly cost you points in a real competition. I'm assuming the game is looking to emulate the real world sport, and as such, if the developers hope to entertain, and entice people to the game with it's realism, you would think promoting someone trick spamming their way down the slope would be the wrong way to go about it. It is far from entertaining to watch, and is not IMHO in the spirit of the sport. Of course, the developers seem to think the opposite, and reward the trick spamming behaviour with not only a signed snowboard, but also a place on the new Super Yeti team (I believe that's what it's called).

    In all honesty, I can't blame Mstifye. They operated within the parameters of the competition/trick system. I do think IMHO it isn't in the spirit of the game, and it's not very entertaining to watch. I'm quite sure mstifye could probably knock out a nice styled varied run, probably even a competition winning 1, but he/she played the system as it currently stands.

    I know the counter is, that I also could have tried to front flip nose grab my way to victory, but my response is "where is the fun in that?". I can't think of a more sure-fire way for me to get bored of this game than if I ended up spamming tricks to get the top slot. I'd far rather gripe on an online forum about it!!!

    Anyway, What I don't get is why the trick system doesn't seem to have been addressed. I struggle to think of an extreme sports trick based game since as far back as cool boarders (showing my age a bit), that has not had a trick system that penalises for repetitive tricks. Take any of the skate games, Amped games, MX games etc, and they all start giving reduced score if the same trick is pulled off repeatedly without any variation. It's what I believed to be a no-brainer when implementing a scoring system for trick based gameplay, as it results in the player having to variate there tricks to keep a high score up, which in turn provides a much better viewing experience when replaying the winning lines.

    IMHO, I'd love it if the developers would address this issue, and I'm certain I'm not the only 1 that feels this way. Furthermore, if I could suggest they take a look at the scoring system in the game Amped 2 for an example of how it's done right. It penalised for repetitiveness, and had a style system, which basically meant you could pull nice big 180/360's and be able to score as much as a far more technical trick, as long as you pulled the manoeuvre off slow and smooth.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my constructive feedback,
    I'll see myself out....
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  2. #2
    Pokey6x6's Avatar Member
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    That is a long and detailed post, and everything you mention, I agree with.
    I'm not one for competing for the leaderboards at all anymore, I tried it around release but quickly noticed the flaws.
    It would be great if this could finally be adressed and fixed..
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  3. #3
    I agree. Not penalizing repetitive trick sequences is really lame
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  4. #4
    Glad to see you folks agree. I'd stopped bothering with trying to get max scores also, as there was so much trick spamming and straight up cheating going on that it took all the fun out of it (unless willing to also spam it up). I know the Devs addressed some of the cheating, which gave me hope they were going to look at the spamming as well, but as yet, the opposite seems true.

    Even if they didn't fix the scoring system (though I truly hope they do), at the very least, when there is an actual prize up for grabs, they could take the top 5 to 10 scorers (remember I was 4th...Nudge nudge wink wink), and get a member of staff (preferably 1 with experience in the relevant sport) to select the best run.
    They could never review everyones run, but even the top 20 runs would take less than an hour to watch (in most instances).

    Anyway, I'd like to hear from others as to what they think, and I'd love to hear 1 of the developers or at least support chime in here.

    Cheers
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by Takeshi-Kovacs Go to original post
    you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that out of the 3 people beating me, the top scorer had pretty much front flip nose grabbed their way down the slope, stopping and going slightly uphill on a lot of the jumps.
    Haha, they are still doing this? This was like the exploit months ago. It is still in? Before that, you could even go straight uphill like some lift was pulling you up and straight up repeat big jumps. That was the big exploit the simply missed during 3 years of development and only noticed at beta testing release. After that was fixed by the wrong way message, the 'winners' resorted to minitricks, which are possible because the scoring system is so straight down simple. As the rest of the game. It is probably the one sports game with the most simplistic and boring gameplay. No technicality that you find in the sports is reflected in the game. Forget your hopes about fixing the scoring system to something that would keep people playing. The devs are really of lower league quality. They have shown it too many times with their previous attempts on the game to have any hope left. Even if they waned to introduced a decent tricksystem, they propably would fail because they could not get a grasp on its complexity in a codebase. In all work areas, there are people of different quality levels with more or less skills, and Annecy definitely are on the lower side. Unfortunately this is how it is. Nobody plays Steep really because of the weak gameplay and the exploits in the scoring. Nothing of any techicality is rewarded in the scoring. It is so simple and pointless really. The devs are really just C-ware. Maybe, you know what: they should ban me from this forum. I mean the game is such a disappointment and I had such high hopes. I usually display serious persistance. I mean I will not stop pissing on them for years to come. Not because I am particularly angry or something. But I can write with ten fingers and this text is like 5mins and I will be reminded of Steep on many occasions in the future and will come back then. I have propably driven away more people from the game than anyone else. I mean just ban me. I am not the guy who returns on another account, I am more like the helpless instinct driven animal who just can not help it as long as the possibility is there. Such a fail the game. Such a simple and meaningless arcade-wannabe trainwreck with weaknesses everywhere.
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  6. #6
    gnarlyDUCK's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by papercle Go to original post
    I agree. Not penalizing repetitive trick sequences is really lame
    Basically. And one of the reasons I don't frustrate myself with those leaderboards.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by TrialsFusioniot Go to original post
    Haha, they are still doing this? This was like the exploit months ago. It is still in? Before that.....
    Yeah, just to be clear though, the winner didn't do the cheat I think you're referring to, where people were able to ride up slope for quite a way and redo the same jump. More that there was just no flow to their line, as on many jumps they were landing and then used their momentum to turn back uphill for like 5m's or something (lining themselves up with a jump they would have missed otherwise).

    It's a shame you've not enjoyed the game. It took me a while to get used to it, as like most, I was hoping for the Skate of snowboarding, but once I started getting it, I have been enjoying it more. I appreciate where you're coming from with the technicality side of things, but I mostly try to pull off big slow tricks anyway (much like as if I was trying to max out the style meter in Amped 2). I find it much more challenging than fast rotations, as you have to get just the right amount of tension on the left stick for it to work. Fast stuff you can just whack the left stick whatever way you want to go, and once airborne, relax the tension on the stick a little so you don't over-rotate, and you're almost sure to land.

    I also personally think that a monstrous backside 180/360 stalefish/tail grab pulled of smoothly looks way sicker than a whirling ball of limbs.

    1 other thing I only really appreciated about the game once I got into it, is the speed control. I found myself actually trying to ride like I would in real life. Not tricks of course, 360 is about the best I can do in RL stunt wise, I am meaning more how I attack steeper slopes by chaining mini/micro carves together (quickly throwing the board from heel to toe - I'm sure there's probably a term for this, but I can't think of 1) to maintain my edge and control the speed. Much like in RL, when the speed gets away from you, regaining control of the edge can be a whitey!

    IMHO I think Annecy have made a pretty decent game, with probably the best looking Mountains I've seen in a snowboarding game. Sure, I'd like the control and freedom of movement that the Skate games provided, but at least it's not another super-unrealstic game like SSX.

    Have you tried Mark McMorris Snowboarding? The controls are a bit different, and I'd say it is more technical based. The box/rail play in it is pretty decent, but overall, I found the gameplay a bit clunky, and the graphics are pretty crappy and bland.

    Hopefully Annecy will address the trick system, and then maybe we can get on at them to sort this other stuff out too. 1 thing at a time!
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  8. #8
    No, I did not mean the very old 'going up the mountain' exploit. I meant the minitricks exploit. The exploit where they basically did not find a solution and just resorted to saying it is legal to do it. It looked so silly back then with people pulling those hundreds little tricks in areas that would never work in real life. Nothing to do with any real slope style or whatever competition. Just an exploit. I did not know it is still in. Funny.

    Annecy did not create the mountains. The mountains are a Wildlands copy/paste with snow. You find that info in early interviews. Annecy actually did not create much on their own. Paragliding is also wildlands. What they creeated, they messed up. See magnetic rocks etc... Anyway, a few more weeks -> X-Alps!! Technical and tactical mountain sports. Who knew that paragliding can actually be exciting and real life even if it is slow?
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by TrialsFusioniot Go to original post
    No, I did not mean the very old 'going up the mountain' exploit. I meant the minitricks exploit. The exploit where they basically did not find a solution and just resorted to saying it is legal to do it. It looked so silly back then with people pulling those hundreds little tricks in areas that would never work in real life. Nothing to do with any real slope style or whatever competition. Just an exploit. I did not know it is still in. Funny.

    Annecy did not create the mountains. The mountains are a Wildlands copy/paste with snow. You find that info in early interviews. Annecy actually did not create much on their own. Paragliding is also wildlands. What they creeated, they messed up. See magnetic rocks etc... Anyway, a few more weeks -> X-Alps!! Technical and tactical mountain sports. Who knew that paragliding can actually be exciting and real life even if it is slow?
    Cool, I was just clarifying, as I didn't want to be seen to be unnecessarily accusing the Winner of something they weren't doing, but yeah, what you described is pretty much it. The winner even has a youtube video titled something like "beating a cheater". It was posted over on reddit and the few folk that posted were sort of pulling him up about the repetitiveness, and how he pretty much beat a cheater by spamming (which some consider cheating-ish).

    They also have a mini interview thing on the main Steep site with them (they are star #9), and when asked what their proudest achievement was their reply was

    "My proudest achievement in Steep has to be winning a snowboard in the Sammy Luebke Challenge! (Without Flat Ground Mini-Tricks too)"

    Emphasis is mine. So they have a problem with flat ground mini tricks, but not spamming the same trick over and over and over and....?

    Funny place to draw the line...


    Anyway, I've never heard of this X-Alps of which you speak. I'm intrigued, but also starting to think you're maybe a PC user? I'm a lowly Xbox slave, so got to take what we're given! Edit: Googled X-Alps. I get you now. I'll definitely be taking a look when it's on. Thanks for the Heads-up.

    You sound like you know more than me regarding game development and how Annecy made this game in particular, so you may well be right, and this request may be futile. I still enjoy it though, and appreciate the effort. Like I said, as an Xbox user, the last good snowboarding game was Amped 2, and I'm pretty sure that's an original xbox game (not 360 or One).

    Well, If they truly are unable to address the trick system, then they could choose the best run out of the top 10 scorers. Would take maybe an hour or 2 tops to watch the clips a couple of times. They could even show their favourite 3 to the giveaway guest (if they do that sort of giveaway again in future), and get them to choose their favourite run. You'd then maybe have to score well, but also see what style of riding the guest favours and try ride that way. That sort of thing would play well into the existing varied play-styles the game incorporates.(freeride, freestyle, extreme etc).

    Just some suggestion to try and stop these leaderboards just becoming a Who can Spam the Most competition.
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  10. #10
    VailValleySkier's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Takeshi-Kovacs Go to original post
    you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that out of the 3 people beating me, the top scorer had pretty much front flip nose grabbed their way down the slope, stopping and going slightly uphill on a lot of the jumps.
    Yea, that Myst guy or whatever his name is has become notorious for doing it and even used to go back uphill when that cheat existed still existed. He honestly should of been banned for ruining the game when that existed. Don't expect that loser to ever have a decent line worth watching. All he does is the same guaranteed trick over and over and even stops himself mid line, which is not acceptable in the real versions of the sport. He even went as far as making a thread on here to brag about the snowboard he got for basically cheating, but I left an honest reply telling him how much he's ruining the game and haven't heard from him since.

    Originally Posted by gnarlyDUCK Go to original post
    Basically. And one of the reasons I don't frustrate myself with those leaderboards.
    It's funny to think anyone actually does care about leader boards on a game with such a ****ty scoring system and rampant cheaters/abusers, that is when there isn't a prize for winning the challenge of course.

    Originally Posted by TrialsFusioniot Go to original post
    No, I did not mean the very old 'going up the mountain' exploit. I meant the minitricks exploit. The exploit where they basically did not find a solution and just resorted to saying it is legal to do it. It looked so silly back then with people pulling those hundreds little tricks in areas that would never work in real life. Nothing to do with any real slope style or whatever competition. Just an exploit. I did not know it is still in. Funny.

    Annecy did not create the mountains. The mountains are a Wildlands copy/paste with snow. You find that info in early interviews. Annecy actually did not create much on their own. Paragliding is also wildlands. What they creeated, they messed up. See magnetic rocks etc... Anyway, a few more weeks -> X-Alps!! Technical and tactical mountain sports. Who knew that paragliding can actually be exciting and real life even if it is slow?
    Yes, you can still exploit/manipulate the hell out of every single freestyle events score by doing ****ty guaranteed single tricks over and over and over while traversing down the mountain and stopping yourself every time you start going too fast. Mystife is the king of doing this, thus why he's the definition of a abuser. STEEP said they would start watching the lines to make sure they are actual lines, but after seeing dudes winning line for that free snowboard, I lost all hope in this game. It was terrible and should of been thrown out and someone with a real line actually doing tricks should of won it. They really ****ed that up and I didn't even participate in the challenge, nor did I want the snowboard. Just seeing who they gave it to though made me want to quit this game all together.



    I'm honestly getting pissed off to the point where I don't even talk about STEEP irl anymore. I don't expect the game to get any better in terms of banning glitchers/abusers like Myst or whatever his name is. Too lazy to even spell it right and I don't care either. I've watched the dude use EVERY exploit this game has had and he's suffered zero repercussions and was even given a free snowboard for his actions. If these are the type of people STEEP wants playing, then I'm done with this game all together. Y'all can act like it's not his fault because he's just a player, but every other game bans people who abuse/exploit glitches for their own personal gain and that's exactly what he's been doing since release. Ubi needs to fix their **** or all of their legit players who actually enjoy the game for what it's supposed to be will leave. They already barley have anyone playing, so they must really want this game to just die completely or something. Their reasons for allowing such nonsense is beyond my comprehension I guess.
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