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Thread: What is being done about the players using KBM on console | Forums

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TypeTen View Post
    Not to mention the fact a keyboard only has the eight cardinal directions with which to move. As opposed to the borderline infinite amounts that a stick can do (it's probably closer to something like 65,000 directions, but w/e).
    there are small gaming keyboards that have an analog stick attached to it for movement - so this wouldn't work.

    i'm pretty sure FairFight could be configured to use certain detection algorithms like tracking the movement of the reticule over an extended period of time. but then what? using heuristic detection methods like FairFight does would require vast amounts of information to compare it to. how else would FairFight decide if reticule movement is suspicious when a mouse is used? it would require hundreds of thousands of hours to "train" fairfight to distinguish between legit analog stick and mouse movement behavior.

    and even then there is no 100% guarantee that it would catch every KBM user because there is something called benefit of the doubt, which often leads to false positives. there are several analog stick mods, manipulations and add-ons that, in combination with high sensitivity and dead zone settings in-game would make it look like someone is using KBM and kick him for no reason from the game. this has been the case in BF1 where people were kicked by FairFight after a 120:0 killing streak in a bomber because their configuration considered it to be impossible to add up this high amount of kills in a relatively short amount of time.

    so yeah, the amount of work and costs required to detect real mouse movement on consoles isn't just worth the effort because it is not nearly as big of a problem as wallhacking and aimbotting is on PC. out of 100 players i encounter on RB6 maybe 2 or 3 people are really KMB users. and even then, who cares? it only becomes a problem when a squad of 5 people is using KBM, which i have never seen anywhere. if 1 guy with KBM is able to destroy your entire team than you're clearly doing something wrong and just look for excuses why you suck,
    Last edited by PingCounter; 04-21-2017 at 04:59 PM.
     

  2. #32
    Senior Member danh.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PingCounter View Post
    there are small gaming keyboards that have an analog stick attached to it for movement - so this wouldn't work.

    i'm pretty sure FairFight could be configured to use certain detection algorithms like tracking the movement of the reticule over an extended period of time. but then what? using heuristic detection methods like FairFight does would require vast amounts of information to compare it to. how else would FairFight decide if reticule movement is suspicious when a mouse is used? it would require hundreds of thousands of hours to "train" fairfight to distinguish between legit analog stick and mouse movement behavior.

    and even then there is no 100% guarantee that it would catch every KBM user because there is something called benefit of the doubt, which often leads to false positives. there are several analog stick mods, manipulations and add-ons that, in combination with high sensitivity and dead zone settings in-game would make it look like someone is using KBM and kick him for no reason from the game. this has been the case in BF1 where people were kicked by FairFight after a 120:0 killing streak in a bomber because their configuration considered it to be impossible to add up this high amount of kills in a relatively short amount of time.

    so yeah, the amount of work and costs required to detect real mouse movement on consoles isn't just worth the effort because it is not nearly as big of a problem as wallhacking and aimbotting is on PC. out of 100 players i encounter on RB6 maybe 2 or 3 people are really KMB users. and even then, who cares? it only becomes a problem when a squad of 5 people is using KBM, which i have never seen anywhere. if 1 guy with KBM is able to destroy your entire team than you're clearly doing something wrong and just look for excuses why you suck,
    It is not a problem if you play this game for fun with friends, but once you go beyond that, when we talk about competition, price money etc. it is a huge problem.
    Competitions should create equal conditions for everyone, that is the key message here.
    But yeah it is hard to track though, I believe if there was an easy way to track m/kb user it would have been done already.

    Also I am not quite following your logic on the "o yeah, the amount of work and costs required to detect real mouse movement on consoles isn't just worth the effort because it is not nearly as big of a problem as wallhacking and aimbotting is on PC. out of 100 players i encounter on RB6 maybe 2 or 3 people are really KMB users. and even then, who cares?"

    Let me check if I understand your logic here. You encounter 2 or 3 kb/m user out of a 100. So you are saying that out of a 100 games on PC there is more likely to be hackers?
    I honestly think that there aren't as many hackers as people make it seem.

    The thing is as I said, I am pretty sure that there are some teams, only a few players who are willing to do everything to get to a certain spot in competition.
    Meaning they are willing to use m/kb just to make it to proleague for example and that is the point where it indeed gets tricky.
    Last edited by danh.; 04-21-2017 at 06:05 PM.
     

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by danh. View Post
    It is not a problem if you play this game for fun with friends, but once you go beyond that, when we talk about competition, price money etc. it is a huge problem.
    Competitions should create equal conditions for everyone, that is the key message here.
    But yeah it is hard to track though, I believe if there was an easy way to track m/kb user it would have been done already.

    Also I am not quite following your logic on the "o yeah, the amount of work and costs required to detect real mouse movement on consoles isn't just worth the effort because it is not nearly as big of a problem as wallhacking and aimbotting is on PC. out of 100 players i encounter on RB6 maybe 2 or 3 people are really KMB users. and even then, who cares?"

    Let me check if I understand your logic here. You encounter 2 or 3 kb/m user out of a 100. So you are saying that out of a 100 games on PC there is more likely to be hackers?
    I honestly think that there aren't as many hackers as people make it seem.

    The thing is as I said, I am pretty sure that there are some teams, only a few players who are willing to do everything to get to a certain spot in competition.
    Meaning they are willing to use m/kb just to make it to proleague for example and that is the point where it indeed gets tricky.


    Or even just for people who play ranked and are worried about their K/D and W/L and their rank. For some people every game counts, they don't like to lose or die. And on R6S losses and etc hurt even more because they will cause you to lose rank.
     

  4. #34
    There ought to be full support for m/kb's on all console games. Seems like the fairest solution to me. It will still be pay to win, but at least then Sony/microsoft can make money from selling their own kb/m's. The bottom line is, playing shooters with a controller just sucks. If you want to be competitive, it ought to be allowed to have the best tool for the job.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again since this thread recurs every week or so: As a XIM user myself, I can attest that the advantage of superior aim in this game is minimal. Tactical positioning, map knowledge, communication, and patience are what win matches in Siege. In other games, yes the m/kb absolutely dominates. But not in Siege.

    As another person said, the people who play very well in this game were plat's/diamonds before they got the adapter. You don't just plug it in and win. In my case, it took about 100 hours of fiddling with the sensitivities to get proficient with the mouse. Has my rank and k/d increased? No. The only difference now is that I don't die as often due to potato aim (but it still does happen), and occasionally I pull off a crazy reflex shot. I certainly never keep entire enemy teams at bay or just sprint around, counting on the potato aim of my enemy's and my own god-like aim to win the match.

    Are some people much better with kb/m than me? Of course, but they are much better gamer's period. If they've been playing computer games all day every day for the past 18 years, why shouldn't they cream me? For those who are very competitive but don't want to spring for an adapter or a gaming computer, I don't know what to say. If you want life to be fair...do I even need to say it?

    Realistically, it would cost sony money to ban m/kb adapters. And for what? Because a small percentage of PS users are upset? As I said at the beginning, I think the fairest solution is also the profitable one, and thus probably the only thing that we might ever see happen. As for now, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. If you can't afford or have moral qualms with that, it's just tough luck.

    But, as always, the people complaining seem like they are exaggerating. Probably they are upset after a string of loses. Everybody gets upset. Sometimes I yell at my dogs because they usually sit next to me so I'll blame them for bumping my hand or something. That's unforgivable of me really, but they still love me. Anyway, yes some people out there do have an unfair advantage over you, but it is not as much as you think and the problem is not as widespread, either.

    Also, just because somebody has really fast and precise aim does not mean they are using m/kb. A lot of people are really good with controllers. Especially kids who play all day. Some of them are so good that it upsets me when they crush me and I'm supposed to have an aiming advantage. As for the vignette of a single m/kber holding off an entire team of attackers, I say that is either exaggeration or the attacking team really, really sucked. It doesn't matter how fast his aim is, he can only aim at one target at a time. Not one of you could post on the window he peeked from?
     

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindead_Bill View Post
    There ought to be full support for m/kb's on all console games. Seems like the fairest solution to me. It will still be pay to win, but at least then Sony/microsoft can make money from selling their own kb/m's. The bottom line is, playing shooters with a controller just sucks. If you want to be competitive, it ought to be allowed to have the best tool for the job.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again since this thread recurs every week or so: As a XIM user myself, I can attest that the advantage of superior aim in this game is minimal. Tactical positioning, map knowledge, communication, and patience are what win matches in Siege. In other games, yes the m/kb absolutely dominates. But not in Siege.

    As another person said, the people who play very well in this game were plat's/diamonds before they got the adapter. You don't just plug it in and win. In my case, it took about 100 hours of fiddling with the sensitivities to get proficient with the mouse. Has my rank and k/d increased? No. The only difference now is that I don't die as often due to potato aim (but it still does happen), and occasionally I pull off a crazy reflex shot. I certainly never keep entire enemy teams at bay or just sprint around, counting on the potato aim of my enemy's and my own god-like aim to win the match.

    Are some people much better with kb/m than me? Of course, but they are much better gamer's period. If they've been playing computer games all day every day for the past 18 years, why shouldn't they cream me? For those who are very competitive but don't want to spring for an adapter or a gaming computer, I don't know what to say. If you want life to be fair...do I even need to say it?

    Realistically, it would cost sony money to ban m/kb adapters. And for what? Because a small percentage of PS users are upset? As I said at the beginning, I think the fairest solution is also the profitable one, and thus probably the only thing that we might ever see happen. As for now, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. If you can't afford or have moral qualms with that, it's just tough luck.

    But, as always, the people complaining seem like they are exaggerating. Probably they are upset after a string of loses. Everybody gets upset. Sometimes I yell at my dogs because they usually sit next to me so I'll blame them for bumping my hand or something. That's unforgivable of me really, but they still love me. Anyway, yes some people out there do have an unfair advantage over you, but it is not as much as you think and the problem is not as widespread, either.

    Also, just because somebody has really fast and precise aim does not mean they are using m/kb. A lot of people are really good with controllers. Especially kids who play all day. Some of them are so good that it upsets me when they crush me and I'm supposed to have an aiming advantage. As for the vignette of a single m/kber holding off an entire team of attackers, I say that is either exaggeration or the attacking team really, really sucked. It doesn't matter how fast his aim is, he can only aim at one target at a time. Not one of you could post on the window he peeked from?

    I am not necessarily complaining but I do understand where people are coming from. I think there are definitely PC/MKB players that can go into console with a MKB and be a one man army and not just because the team they play against sucks. The MKB is more of an acquired skill than a controller. Meaning someone who has played PC for 10 years on many different shooters is going to have more skill than someone who has played for a few years on just a couple of different shooters. The skill gap is just way higher on MKB and harder to master. Someone may be comfortable and good at with a MKB but there are far more experienced players who take things to several levels higher. You can say the same about a joy stick I guess but I just feel MKB is a skill that you can continually sharpen even more so than a joy stick.

    I'm not sure how much you watch the top players but if you watch the top players across several different games (CSGO, R6S, CoD, etc) you will start to be able to spot the good MKB players from the really good MKB. How steady they are, how accurate they are when moving there aim from point A to point B, the way the navigate corners and etc. A lot of people can watch some of these things and not even pay much attention. How steady and accurate they are is just something that takes years and years to perfect imo.

    The crazy reflex shots you talk about is something that is in the regular repertoire of a really good MKB player and they do consistently.
     

  6. #36
    Senior Member WBBCoop's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if 'bandwitch' or whatever would allow them to track how many degrees a player turns in relation to the maximum count that a controller has and throttle it. They could also put said players with overclocked 'input devices' with the guys that have a high percentage of jumping out windows..two birds, one stone.

    ETA: They could also create a maximum turn rate based on a new dynamic called Stamina. Takes 1 second to max turn/ads/your choice after depleted stamina. You would still be able to run full bunny anywhere and everywhere without stopping..until you stop..one second later you can do it again.
    Last edited by WBBCoop; 04-21-2017 at 08:35 PM.
     

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by xTwentyThree23 View Post
    I am not necessarily complaining but I do understand where people are coming from. I think there are definitely PC/MKB players that can go into console with a MKB and be a one man army and not just because the team they play against sucks. The MKB is more of an acquired skill than a controller. Meaning someone who has played PC for 10 years on many different shooters is going to have more skill than someone who has played for a few years on just a couple of different shooters. The skill gap is just way higher on MKB and harder to master. Someone may be comfortable and good at with a MKB but there are far more experienced players who take things to several levels higher. You can say the same about a joy stick I guess but I just feel MKB is a skill that you can continually sharpen even more so than a joy stick.

    I'm not sure how much you watch the top players but if you watch the top players across several different games (CSGO, R6S, CoD, etc) you will start to be able to spot the good MKB players from the really good MKB. How steady they are, how accurate they are when moving there aim from point A to point B, the way the navigate corners and etc. A lot of people can watch some of these things and not even pay much attention. How steady and accurate they are is just something that takes years and years to perfect imo.

    The crazy reflex shots you talk about is something that is in the regular repertoire of a really good MKB player and they do consistently.
    That makes sense. Before I went to the m/kb, I felt like I was about maxed out with my controller skill. Now I'm much better than I was with a controller, but I feel I could still get a lot better with the mouse.

    But, to use your point against the original OP, now we are talking a small percentage of kb/m users out of the already small percentage that are using them on console.
     

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by PingCounter View Post
    as some one who plays with XIM4 on ps4 since velvet shell, i can definitely say that the ability to use KBM on ps4 is one of the main reasons that kept me playing the game. don't get me wrong, i was diamond in all seasons except Year 1 season 1 using a controller. however, with a mouse it was so much more fun to play this game even though you can't dismiss the fact that it is a huge advantage.

    the only time people complaining about getting wrecked by KBM users is when a bad or average player (gold 1 tops) with mediocre game sense encounters an exceptional player (plat 1 - diamond) that would've wrecked them regardless. so why are you not seeing any KBM users on lower tiers? because by their logic, most KBM users should face each others in higher-level tiers, which would make such encounters even more "balanced", right?

    but back to the topic: yes, KBM is a huge advantage over controller-only players, but only in the hands of people with equally good game sense. i'm using it be cause it is fun, much more fun than using a controller, although i feel sorry sometimes for the losing team when I'm MVP with 15:1 stats does that make you feel better?
    No but I have reported you to Sony as instructed by Ubisoft, I urge other to do the same. Here is a comment from Ubisoft "We have not enabled keyboard and mouse use on the console version of the game. If someone is using them, they are circumventing the approved usage outlined by Microsoft and Sony. I recommend reporting them to Microsoft and Sony so that they can take action"
     

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by minners71 View Post
    No but I have reported you to Sony as instructed by Ubisoft, I urge other to do the same. Here is a comment from Ubisoft "We have not enabled keyboard and mouse use on the console version of the game. If someone is using them, they are circumventing the approved usage outlined by Microsoft and Sony. I recommend reporting them to Microsoft and Sony so that they can take action"
    I think that would be a good idea. I am not playing on consoles, so I am not affected by this topic and I like that you guys discuss whether M/KB should be allowed or not. There are good pro and contra arguements, but at the moment it is not allowed. So I think it is quite ridiculous, that everybody talk about their experiences with their FORBIDDEN hardware on the official game forum without any consequences.
     

  10. #40
    If the aiming wasn't so jerky and clunky on console, people would rely on these adapters a lot less. I'm not saying add aim assist, but Ubi needs to smooth out there aiming mechanics on console. Call of Duty and Battlefield 4 are excellent examples of proper look mechanics.
     

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