For example, one of the possible versions of real turn-based combat:
1)Players can fight with NPC in classic HOMM battle style. Each turn will have a time-limit (as it sad Balcanicus) about 10-30 sec.
Developers can use AI from HOMM 3 (3do development) or from HOMM 5 (Ubi-Nival development).
Players can also use auto-combat mode.
Auto-combat algorithm also can be taken from classic HOMM 3 (HOMM 5).
2) Online user can switch autocombat On/Off toggle as they wish. If user is online and use autocombat with NPC or offline user - classic autocombat algorithm works. If player turned off autocombat he can rule his army in classic HOMM battle-mode by himself. If player attacks NPC or offline player - classic AI can rule opponents army.
It will be good lesson for players not to leave his heroes far away without any army.

My example can work in HOMM Kingdoms. And it's a great opportunity to have real HOMM-Online game with all best attributes of Heroes series. I worked as game-designer in some web games and i can tell for sure that my example will work.
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Realy hope that developers will think about my proposition.

quote:

Originally posted by Gyperion:
For example, one of the possible versions of real turn-based combat...

Gyperion, you suggest really good idea! And it looks simple.
The final word rests with developers. I suppose this idea can make great changes in their plans.
And I hope this changes (or, at least, close to) are within developers depth.

After last answers I`ve lost interest to play HMMKingdoms. But now I see the light at the end of the tunnel!

Classic battle is the soul of the whole series of HOMM games! If it will not, then I personally moment several times before to play this game. When I first saw the message about this game that I do not even think that the battle system is fundamentally another. When I think of HOMM I immediately recall classic battle. Please do not destroy the soul games.

quote:

Originally posted by Gyperion:
For example, one of the possible versions of real turn-based combat:
1)Players can fight with NPC in classic HOMM battle style. Each turn will have a time-limit (as it sad Balcanicus) about 10-30 sec.
Developers can use AI from HOMM 3 (3do development) or from HOMM 5 (Ubi-Nival development).
Players can also use auto-combat mode.
Auto-combat algorithm also can be taken from classic HOMM 3 (HOMM 5).
2) Online user can switch autocombat On/Off toggle as they wish. If user is online and use autocombat with NPC or offline user - classic autocombat algorithm works. If player turned off autocombat he can rule his army in classic HOMM battle-mode by himself. If player attacks NPC or offline player - classic AI can rule opponents army.
It will be good lesson for players not to leave his heroes far away without any army.

My example can work in HOMM Kingdoms. And it's a great opportunity to have real HOMM-Online game with all best attributes of Heroes series. I worked as game-designer in some web games and i can tell for sure that my example will work.
-----------
Realy hope that developers will think about my proposition.

Absolutely agree with mr.Gyperion. Either all - or nothing! Need maximum make efforts for keeping elements of HOMM battle style. Please, don't ignore fan wishes!

I'm not questioning the difficulty of employing this sort of system into an online game where a player may not always be present to take control of his army but it still doesn't make me any less dissapointed that the combat wont be there. When I think of HOMM one of the first things that come to mind is it's old style combat. It's been present in all their games and has never really changed, it will be difficult to try and convey the feeling of a HOMM sequal without having it there.

thanks for another batch of Q&A.

as for the battle, it was to be expected; it's math just like any other browser-based game.

Wow! What a rebellion!

Gyperion, you`ve got huge encouragement!
Your idea is not ideal but it can`t be ideal in browser-game format. I agree with Wolfhound - Either all - or nothing!

Dev guys, pay attention! You have an opportunity to take on promising worker .

----------------------------------
Let`s conclude
I`ve take look on faq and Yaiden answers.
Well,
1) You`re gonna cut off classic battle system. Ok, may be it is difficult for you to include it into your game.
2) You`re gonna cut off originality(magic feature and so on) of each unit. In fact, you`re gonna left just 3 types of unit.
3) I`m sure. You`re gonna cut off magic skills of hero.Becouse it is not make sence without classic battle.
4) You`re gonna change game genre. It`s clear. No complaints.

The question! What are you gonna left?

In fact, the main feature of your game differing from other MMO is hero presence and her/him impact on army. That is the only difference!
Be sure, you will have a lot of MMO players. But HOMAM players... . Just think about it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lincolnisalive,

As far as I understand, real battle will be excluded. am I right? If it is, I am very disappointed. I expected to see battle.

May be Gyperion is right? His idea is at least closer to battle we used to.
I`d play HOMMKingdoms with Gyperion`s algorithm of battle system. No offends, but Gyperion`s battle system is better then discribed by Yaiden battle.

Gyperion`s suggestion is very good. its better than random with math. calculations. It`s HOMM`s heart and you want to kill it. Please, listen to fans.

Hi all. I have just registred in Game. First of all, I have not very quick internet. So, it's rather difficult to play this game. Maybe, it have client program orit will be writed soon?

As far as I know about MMO is that every calculation is made on servers. Making AI to fight with complicated algorithms will cause heavy CPU and memory usage - and it is not good in MMO because the game is played by thousands of players
So sorry folks but I don't think that developers will do that. It is a wish that will not came true.
It could be a way - to send all information and parameters of the fight to your home computer (he would make the calculations) but I don't think that web browsers are capable of handling this. To do that HOMM Kingdoms should be an application run on our computers not on the web browser but like normal HOMM - there are many problems with that - you have to handle all errors that may cause the running computer, or disconnections, or synchronization between two players or even cheating with other programs written by fans. Moreover, what will happen when you have multiple fights in one time? You could switch to auto in less important battle, you can't make to wait the other player. Any one of you knows that we are a lot better than any AI today and all battles fought when other player is offline are not even - the game would become a hunt for players who are not online - it could be any of you. So what would you do? - spend more and more time playing to prevent it. And I can honestly say - I played 'Travian' and it is a great game but consumes a lot of time if you want to be in the first 100 of players. I resigned becouse it consumed a lot of my time and I won't play any online game which will cause me to play more then 30-40 minutes per day.
There are only few problems I can think of in few minutes - and I am sure the devs have much longer list.
So the game won't have any kind of tactical battle - I am sure of it.

Hello all,

I see that you have many reactions about my previous post!

First, you have to know that all the dev team members are old HOMM fans, so we really want to keep the saga's "spirit" with HOMM Kingdoms. That's why we work hard to give you the best MMO web based experience while respecting the HOMM legacy.

Now let me detail the battle system:

The battle's results are absolutely not random, each combat is based on:

Hero's level - characteristics (attack and defense), and skills (depending on his career)

Hero's Spells – Magic level

Hero's Artefacts

Hero's army
_ ___1.Army power: based on your unit's type / power (from peasants to angels concerning the Havens. Obviously an angel is much stronger than several peasants or footmen.)
_ ___2.Unit's category : Calvary, infantry or archery
_ ___3.How you divide your troops: for example you could choose to start with a group of 25 archers, then fight with 15 peasants, and then 20 archers again.

defensive buildings : town buildings or region buildings (PvP)
You really define your battle strategy.

Once you have dealt with all these parameters, you can launch your attack.

Each combat is divided into rounds:

Your first troops group will fight the opponent's group.

The units left from the winning side will fight the following opponent's troops group.

The combat ends when one of the two heros/NPCs has no creatures left.

The way you organize your troops precisely, according to your own parameters, and what you know of your enemy completely defines the result of the battle.

Check these screens to see what I mean.




Cheers,


Yaiden

Hi Yaiden
I like the combat system, but the pictures are not clear - they are from different fights.

But I have one disorder with it:
Fighting like this will cause death of all armies that fight at the first, so nobody will place there high level creatures because they will be fighting with all the opponent army to the death.
I think you forgot about one parameter : 'speed' of your armies. Each place in the stack have a number (1,2,3..7), each unit has a speed (also number corresponding to their speed in original game)
You place the units in the stack as you wish and all of them fight with that order, but they fight only one round and then the winning unit goes down the stack to 7th place , the unit who were 2nd is 1st now and fights the 1st opponent unit (who were 2nd but his 1st unit died) and after this the winning unit goes down (suppose it was again yours) - it can be placed on the 7th place or on the 6th overtaking the previous unit because it has more speed. It would work like in HOMM V

TsuChi - i see u don't clearly understand how the game serves works. Actually often all game calculations make some (maybe several ) computers (example: one for trading,one for chat,one for battles and so on...).
So your remarks are interesting but you wrong.
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Yaiden -thx again for your attention and answers about battle systems - it's more clear now for us.
But in truth this is not HOMM classic battle system at all - too many differents and lack of tactics.

Tell us pls-can We get any hope to see real HOMM battle system in Kingdoms?
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For about troops types - now there is no connection between troops type and it's name, just a bonus. We can call troops not only inf-cav-shoters but A-B-C, 1-2-3, stone-paper-scissors.

Battle algorithm is more compound than in Travian etc. but still it have no tactic soul.

Pls make for us real HOMM battle-system. We can wait longer ...

thx, Yaiden

Finally we have clear description of the battle system. I`ve got it.
I`d like to ask now:
1) How spells will be included into battle? It is not clear on the pictures.
2) I can define the order of attack and whose attack. Can I define who will be attacked by me? I mean what is the order of attacked troops?
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I like TsuChi idea about speed parameters of troops.

And I`d like to suggest development of TsuChi`s idea.
Well. Each unit(my unit or enemy unit) has its own speed that define the order of attack during the battle. The order of troops (I mean 1,2,3,4,5,7 slots) define which enemy troop will be attacked. My slot 1 will attack enemy slot 1, My slot 2 attack enemy slot 2...... But attack does not have to finish when my slot 1 or enemy slot 1 die. Damage have to be calculated in the same manner as in classic HOMM battle: damage=(attack-defence)*"unit damage".
In the case of non equal namber of captured slot . For expl: I have 1,2,3,4 slots with toops, enemy has 1,2,3 slots with troops. In this case, the order of attack following:
1) first round: my slot 1 atack enemy slot 1, my slot 2 attack enemy slot 2, my slot 3 attacks enemy slot 3, my slot 4 attack enemy slot 1
2) second round: my slot 1 attack enemy slot 2 - in continuation of cycle. Or, other variant, my slot 1 attack enemy slot 1 - repetition of cycle. It`s up to you. Both orders can cause different tactics.

TWO KEY PARAMETERS: SPEED AND SLOT(TROOPS) ORDER.

I hope it is clear.

And this algorithm really has tactic features. And it really differs from Travian algorithm etc.

Pls think about this algorithm if you don`t want to save classic HOMM battle system.
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I still hope to see classic battle system as Gyperion suggests.

No offends, Yaiden, but your battle system very poor.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: yermolayev,