Happy New Year! Everyone,

I notice that in LO you can dodge a missle by flying towards it and then before it hits you turning 90 degree sharply. Of cause timing is critical. While doing this in other sim (I am ref to falcon 4) is suicidal, because you are getting into no-escape zone. So this brings me to the subject question. To me, it seems that the flight of aircraft is well simed but missle seems not. Any comments?

Many thanks
yfan

My first comment would be that if you break lock beaming a radar missile by turning 90o off from its seeker, it will not hit you, NEZ or not. You can dodge any kind of missile in the NEZ if it cant home on you. However, if you are in the NEZ and the missile does not lose lock, you are hit (in LO/AF).

Second would be that F4 is known to have crazy hard to avoid missiles. Or easy to hit with, depending on how you look at it; and while neither sim can be claimed to be fully realistic due to classification of data on missiles, Lockon get closer with every patch. Except perhaps the last one for flaming cliffs didnt work out as planned but thats being adressed.

I think the weapon modelling is superior in LO, regarding missile behaviour. Im talking from a general view not my own opinion; People laud f4 for its DC, and avionics, and LO for its graphics flight models and weapon modelling in my experience.

There is no game yet too close on missile perfomance yet. LOMAC's missiles may be convincing in certains aspects but are not in others.
For example the Missiles R-77 and the AMRAAM are exactly the same except I think someone mentioned thr R-77 had a slighly longer range. Wich doesnt exactly correspond to reality. Thats because the R-77 may be slighly more manueverable at the endgame but its also draggier at low altitudes thanks to its potato masher air surfaces. Also the seeker on the AMRAAM is probably better as the ED developers admited themselves.

Another thing that "blows the cover" on the missiles envelope is that the R-27ER has the same motor burn as the R-27EM, since this last has longer range, ED decided to cut on the its drag factor to compensate.

Another one, and this is IMHO is that the AIM-9 is somewhat short legged. It burns for 4 seconds, as in reality but its drag factor makes it useless above 2 miles. Sometimes I swich to guns because the Sidwinder cant reach the target just in front of me! In LOMAC the AIM-9 is barely superior in seeker perfomance to the R60 Aphid but just about the same range (kinetic capability) wich is wrong, since the aphid is practicaly half the size of a sidwinder.

doesn't lomac's future consist of AFM for weapons? When that happens, then the missiles would be pretty **** realistic.

quote:

Originally posted by GazeH0und:
My first comment would be that if you break lock beaming a radar missile by turning 90o off from its seeker, it will not hit you, NEZ or not. You can dodge any kind of missile in the NEZ if it cant home on you. However, if you are in the NEZ and the missile does not lose lock, you are hit (in LO/AF).

Second would be that F4 is known to have crazy hard to avoid missiles. Or easy to hit with, depending on how you look at it; and while neither sim can be claimed to be fully realistic due to classification of data on missiles, Lockon get closer with every patch. Except perhaps the last one for flaming cliffs didnt work out as planned but thats being adressed.

I think the weapon modelling is superior in LO, regarding missile behaviour. Im talking from a general view not my own opinion; People laud f4 for its DC, and avionics, and LO for its graphics flight models and weapon modelling in my experience.

Thanks for your reply.
Does NEZ means followings?:
1. You can't get out missile's lock.
2. Missile has enough energy to get you
3. You can't out maneuver the missile
or is it different definition?

Actually the missile in F4 is not that difficult to dodge. All you need to do is make sure you are not too deep into missile's launch envlope and fly above 600mph do S moves to breed its speed and energy.

quote:

Originally posted by yfan:

Actually the missile in F4 is not that difficult to dodge. All you need to do is make sure you are not too deep into missile's launch envlope and fly above 600mph do S moves to breed its speed and energy.

That's not dodging the missile, that is out-running it

As for how realistic missiles are simulated in LO, all I can say is that F4 and Lock On FC are both equally unrealistic. In terms of physical performance, F4 models stuff like rocket acceleration and kinematics better (both of which are non-existent in Lock On) while Lock On models air densities better (which are non-existent in F4). F4 IMO also models radar AAMs better, as the current chaff/radar system in Lock On is porked, but Lock On models heat seeking AAMs better.

The ideal missile model is a blend of both F4 and LO modelling characteristics, IMO. Hopefully, weapons AFM would address acceleration issues and advanced seeker modelling would address chaff issues in LO V1.2.

Flying fast worked in F4 to dodge (not outrun ) missiles. But it only worked on missiles with poor seeker capabilities. From the moment the oposition grabs AIM-9L/M's and up you can only hope to fire all of yours before someone shoots one at you.

quote:

Originally posted by yfan:
Thanks for your reply.
Does NEZ means followings?:
1. You can't get out missile's lock.
2. Missile has enough energy to get you
3. You can't out maneuver the missile
or is it different definition?

3. you cannot out manouver the missile, it will have enough energy to intercept you whatever you do. You can break its lock though. In LO the NEZ of your missile shots is represented on the hud as the second bar on the ramnge scale (the one at the top is max range, the one at the bottom mn range and the middle line and down is the NEZ.

I remember once playing F4, I shot an AIM-9 at an (IIRC) Su-25, I shot it pretty off bore, so the AIM-9 didn't hit the Su-25 at first and the Su-25 just passed under it, but then guess what!!! The AIM-9 did a vertical half downward loop and came up behind the Su-25 and hit it! Of course, the Su-25 survived and started doing the chicken dance. I don't know if the missile damage is supposed to be accurate or not, but it sure was pretty funny and I enjoyed every second of it.