The Typhoon and Raptor are both extremely capable fighters, though the Raptor would probably win in most situations. However I would like to know everyones input on which is the best all around fighter. (BVR, Air combat maneuvering, cost, serviceability, deployablility, reliability and swingrole/multirole capabilities)

Well…most info about these two planes is still classified so you can’t make an accurate decision. But most likely the F-22 would win, due to its agility, speed, and stealth. Stealth is a major advantage; you can’t kill an enemy that you can’t see. However, when it comes to close 1v1 dogfight, it’s hard to say. I have seen both of these planes do some pretty amazing moves. Personally, I’m not that fond of either planes. F-22 may be good but that comes in a heavy price. The F-22 has a traditional wing design which means less drag on maneuvering and more drag at high speed, but it can super cruise so that’s a good thing. Eurofighter has the delta wings design which has less drag at high speed, but more drag on maneuvering, but I guess they balanced that out with the canard wings. The delta wing weighs less so that means more fuel. Anyway…I personally like Russia’s design. Its cheap and efficient. My vote goes to the sukhoi family. If they only had some more money, they could seriously kick some F-22 A$$. The prototype Su-47 Berkut was initially designed to take on the F-22, same with the MiG 1.42. I would like to see these two birds in their final design.

quote:

Originally posted by endoftheviggen:
The Typhoon and Raptor are both extremely capable fighters, though the Raptor would probably win in most situations. However I would like to know everyones input on which is the best all around fighter. (BVR, Air combat maneuvering, cost, serviceability, deployablility, reliability and swingrole/multirole capabilities)

I haven't the slightest idea what either planes are really capable of. However, if I had to choose, I would say the raptor, easily. My assumptions are based on what former viper and eagle pilots but are now raptor pilots have said. 8+ eagles against 2 raptors = 8 dead eagle jocks who didn't even "see" the 2 raptors. I imagine that the passive radar in the raptors are very very effective. I do not imagine 2 Typhoons doing this, remember, the 8 eagle pilots were expert class pilots. Some of the pilots also flew the raptor, meaning, they knew its weakness' and still had no idea where it was. The more I hear about the raptor, the more awesome it seems to be.

The fact that you Just Can't See the Raptor BVR probably means it'll win

Typhoon does have some RCS reducing characteristics, but nothing like the Raptor does.


"Raptor - Clubbing Baby Seals Since 2004"

If I was ever to go to batle and had the chance to choose from, I would choose the F-22 in most situations.

Why? because it can pick up and track targets from further away without being detected than the typhoon.

There are rumours that the raptor has some special abilities like electronic invasion and radar blind (actively).

However the typhoon will be armed with the Meteor wich IMHO will be better then the AMRAAM.
Its a potent fighter and in some combat scenarios it will outshoot the raptor and out range it too (by weapons).

If I had too choose one of the 2 for my AF (LOL) I would rather stick with the typhoon instead. For the same amount of money we would get 4 typhoons in the place of 1 raptor, ans since we would never declare war to the US and neither will the raptor be exported we would be safe in that choice.

IRL however we will never fly either. they are overkill for the current Portuguese strategic acessment, and I see the JSF instead as the primary contender for 20 years in the future.

We will keep our trusty falcons for now

I'd take the one which generates more sorties on the same amount of time.

If Raptor turns out to be a pig to maintain and the Thyphoon would generate sorties 3:1 against Raptor, it would be easy to make the decision which one to pick up. Once in the air, I bet they are quite close match for each other.

Well, all is not simple anymore...

I have been reading around, and supposedly, the DASS system on Typhoon has some neat little tricks up its sleeves....

RAF Typhoons have laser warning on them.. so no sneak attacks from Rusian IRST's trying to range them.... not a new thing though, most RAF aircraft have systems like that anyway.

And the biggy, supposedly, It has a system that can detect data link transmissions, give an approx baring, and even jam the data link.. including those used between an aircraft and its missiles.

if true, an aircraft may have to get a hell of a lot closer than it may like to a Typhoon.

quote:

Originally posted by valleyboy1:
And the biggy, supposedly, It has a system that can detect data link transmissions, give an approx baring, and even jam the data link.

I'd be surprised to see a system that can phis out spread spectrum sub SNR transmissions and jam or eavesdrop them.

Does the F/A-22's Low RCS make a real advantage though? From some magazines I have read (Airforces-Eurofighter Propaganda)its stealth characteristics are becoming less viable with the development of newer radars. However, its APG-77 AESA is very good and deffeniately outcalsses the Captor. Also I have read that the F/A-22 will replace or supplement F-117's and F-15E's, though I have doubts that its small JDAM or SDB loadout would be effective.

quote:

Originally posted by Hubsu:

I'd be surprised to see a system that can phis out spread spectrum sub SNR transmissions and jam or eavesdrop them.

Me too. The datalink system is supposed to run in the microwave band, its very much a line-of-sight system. The signal could probably be detected IF the searching aircraft just happened to venture upon the DL pulse as it was making its short journey. Even if that happened, I can't imagine the searching aircraft would be able to process any intelligence on that signal for any tactical use before it was blown out of the sky.

But again...its all classified information, so we can only guess.

On the RCS question...YES the RCS of the F/A-22 gives it an advantage. Radar techonlogy is improving...but...no matter how much it improves, it will STILL be more difficult to detect than other, conventional aircraft. Its all relative. Stealth was never intended to guarantee invincibility or invisibility, it was meant to significantly improve survivability by reducing observability.

F-117s carry a VERY small air-to-mud loadout as well, but it is still very effective for hitting single, heavily defended, strategic targets. I imagine the FB-22 will be quite effective in the same type of mission.

"I haven't the slightest idea what either planes are really capable of. However, if I had to choose, I would say the raptor, "easily".

LOL..funnest thing I have read in a long time..

quote:

Originally posted by Hubsu:
I'd take the one which generates more sorties on the same amount of time.

If Raptor turns out to be a pig to maintain and the Thyphoon would generate sorties 3:1 against Raptor, it would be easy to make the decision which one to pick up. Once in the air, I bet they are quite close match for each other.

Actualy the raptor is supposed to be a lot more mantainable than the F-15. That lesson aparently has been learnt.

In the air the Typhoon has an AESA radar just like the F-22, but since the Raptor is optimized for stealth, the F-22 will probably pick up the typhoon first. By the time the Typhoon picks it up, it might just be well inside AMRAAM range wich negates the meteor range advantage, but not its lethal capability compared to the AMRAAM or against any other fighter.

The F-22 main disavantage becomes its price, US military may be very sensitive to the risks of using it and loosing it. The raptor simply blasts away any other fighter present,past and possibly future in the price tag. With a 250 milion dollar bill per plane it just takes 4 to cost as much as an AWACS or a JSTARS wich makes it a high asset combat unit wich is sent directly over the enemies noses.

quote:

Originally posted by IguanaKing:
The datalink system is supposed to run in the microwave band, its very much a line-of-sight system.

I heard a wild rumour that the Raptor would have a RF radar interferometer. That system would need a high bw datalink to work (plus needs to solve a couple of even more harder obstacles involving a flying interferometer). If that rumour is true, one way to achieve that is to have a maser (here where it coincides with you: a maser is operating at microwave lenghts and has a very directional beam thus needs a LOS) in the transmitter of the datalink.

If that wild rumour is true, and the Raptor has a flying interferometer with 3-4 Raptors linked together, I no more wonder why that thing costs $250M a piece

quote:

Originally posted by Goanna_Mk.2:
"I haven't the slightest idea what either planes are really capable of. However, if I had to choose, I would say the raptor, "easily".

LOL..funnest thing I have read in a long time..

hehe, it is pretty funny. That guy says odd stuff at times, he did later qualify his statement.

Anyways, I have a question. Can a Typhoon or has a single Typhoon taken on 4 or 5 F-16/15s with the best pilots available, and survived? I have heard nothing of how the Typhoon has done against other aircraft. I would really like to know how it does against other aircraft.

I really doubt any other plane other then the Raptor could do this. As I understand it, the Raptor can be employed in a way that it can not be seen. If you have a general idea where it is then you might see it, but if you have no idea where it is, you are in trouble, most likely it knows where you are and manuevers to stay clear of your radar, like behind you. I would assume supercruise would come in handy here. The raptor has a tough time seeing itself, I doubt the Typhoon's AESA is any better/worse then the Raptor's. As far as dogfighting one on one, with Aim 9X and the like, it all becomes trivial. The Raptor can also hold Angles of attack that the Typhoon can't, or I haven't seen the Typhoon hold AoA in videos, it kind of just flips and flops around like a Su. Anyways like I said before, I really haven't the slightest idea, just like the rest of you, its all speculation and guessing.

"Can a Typhoon or has a single Typhoon taken on 4 or 5 F-16/15s with the best pilots available, and survived?"

Would that not be moot..??..I mean to say, when are "5 or 5 F-16's/15's" going to be in the air in anger minus the AWAC..??

"I really doubt any other plane other then the Raptor could do this. As I understand it, the Raptor can be employed in a way that it can not be seen."

The French are said to have developed "active stealth" for the Rapfale...which apparently sends out a signal 180 Deg out of phase to that of the transmitting a/c. It may not be "stealthy", but then again, does it have to be..??...all it has to do is deny a lock until the fight becomes a little more even.

Gee...active signal cancelling...those French sure are clever. Too bad for them that radar doesn't actually work that way...at least...I hope they don't actually believe that, otherwise they'll be in for a rude awakening.

I believe what BoCFuss meant to say about the 4 or 5 versus 1 engagement is that previous engagements at Nellis have been pretty evenly matched, numerically, between Red and Blue, until now.

The Eurofighter does not have an AESA radar. The CAPTOR radar is the most advanced mechanical steered radar in the world. Its a 3rd gen pulse dopler radar that can perform A2A and A2G functions at the same time like an AESA.

The Eurofighter is planned to get an AESA version of the CAPTOR in the T3 models if it gets funding.

Right now the Raptor has one of the best AESAs around and is planned to get a side facing AESA in each side of the nose along with the origional AESA. This is ment to let the Raptor scan up to 110 degrees off each side of the nose making it very hard for an enemy to try and sneak past it.

A mechanically scanned radar that can do A2A and A2G at the same time? It must have two, independent plates if it can do that efficiently. Thanks for the info gfitpatrick, I'll have to do some reading on the CAPTOR, it sounds like it has some interesting capabilities.

Typhoon has done at least a 3-1 with F-16's for the Singapore trials... and beat them.

Captor doesnt have two plates, its just the scan rate is fast enough that it will do A2A in one sweep, and A2G the next.

The Typhoon has knocked out of the Singapore trials because of the lack of weapons currently intergrated with the Typhoon and expected delivery delays.

Its now down to the F-15T and Rafale for Sinapore.
I wonder who will win that
Cough:F-15T:Cough

Anyway back to the Captor the antena can be steered up and down very quickly by two very powerful electric motors. And what valley said above.