I must admit that I’m truly amazed to hear people complain about how terrible, tedious, and user un-friendly the map editor is.

What were you expecting? That you click a button and a whole map appears? Nope, that’s not a map EDITOR; that’s a Random Map Generator. So what exactly is so terrible? Alright, point it out to me.

BUT, something that’s clearly a bug doesn’t count. I think that before we complain about bugs, we first need to wait and give them at least ONE chance to fix the problem with the next patch.

So, here goes. What is so bad?

For instance, what tool was in the map editor of H3 that isn’t in the editor of H5? How is this editor worse than the one of H3?
Or what other map editor of a different game can you point to that is SO much better than this editor?

Don’t just say ‘it’s bad’ or ‘it’s tedious.’ Here’s your chance; tell me just WHAT’S actually wrong with it.

H.W.

So far - and I haven't looked at the editor in detail yet - my only complaint is that the largest map size is not nearly big enough for my taste.

For one thing I don't know why the maps have to be square, what if someone wanted to make a map that is 128x512?

So - my suggestion is that they allow map maker to decide the dimensions of the map much more than they can now.

Have "width" and "height" be two separate and virtually independent values which can be selected as high as at least 1024 - personally I would prefer 4096 as the upper limit but as it is only 216 now I would be happy if they could make it 1024.

Yes, the biggest possible map would then be 1024 but I wager that most playable maps would not be that biggest size but the point is that map maker would then be free to make a map X x Y where the map maker chose the X and the Y within the limits of say 128 <= X <= 1024.

Other than that the map editor seem fine - in a "so far so good" meaning of the word 'fine'.

I also look forward to many nice maps made by the community to soon pop up

Xamar

If I ignore all the bugs which to me seems to be endless, I'm missing An auto save option, ctrl+z / ctrl+y (undo/redo), a selection tool so I easy can select objects and a move objects "up and down" tool. I had also preferred that they have used scripts "boxes" like in H4, it to me seems to be exactly the same sort of scripting in H4 and H5 whit the difference that in in H5 you have to write all the scripts by hand, = boring and much more user un-frendly.

I really like this editor, it has great potential, but at this stage it's so buggy it's almost impossible to work with.

A big plus is that the manuals are very well done, credit fort that nival.

quote:

Originally posted by Arachibutyropho:
If I ignore all the bugs which to me seems to be endless, I'm missing An auto save option, ctrl+z / ctrl+y (undo/redo), a selection tool so I easy can select objects and a move objects "up and down" tool. I had also preferred that they have used scripts "boxes" like in H4, it to me seems to be exactly the same sort of scripting in H4 and H5 whit the difference that in in H5 you have to write all the scripts by hand, = boring and much more user un-frendly.

I really like this editor, it has great potential, but at this stage it's so buggy it's almost impossible to work with.

A big plus is that the manuals are very well done, credit fort that nival.

About the scripting - I am of exactly the opposite opinion as you. Making the script things in H4 was a pain exactly because of the endless box selection. You type with the keyboard much faster and you get much better overview than you can get by silly dialog boxes.

Yes, boxes have one good thing. For small one-line scripts you would be sure you got the syntax right. As soon as you were making something more than a line the H4 method was troublesome.

Yes, the problem now is that you have a real language - that means real power but it also means you have to learn real syntax - is that really that hard?

www.lua.org have all the documentation you want about the language. The question is then how it interacts with the game.

- the functions such as AddHeroCreatures() is documented in the documentation - and we already knew of them from the cheat console. Some additional functions which may not be useful in cheats but which are useful in scripts are also documented.

I miss some function to alter certain properties in-game. Like you set up a bunch of mobs and set them initially as "hostile" and "never join" but if the user perform a certain task they change to "friendly" and "always join" or "maybe join" or "join for a price". The point is, you want to dynamically modify these properties. I see no function to do that.

It is easy enough if those properties are LUA data structures, then presumably the monster army is represented by a table and the properties are elements of that table but as far as I know that is not the case. The objects aren't really available to the script language except through the set of functions that can modify them and as such the group of monsters is only represented through some name - i.e. a string.

I also think the map editor could support larger maps but that's just me.

I also hope that we get a campaign editor soon.

Xamar

I have not installed Patch 1.2 or Patch 1.3 … so obviously, I haven't looked at the Map Editor yet. Since I'm not very good at creating maps, I wanted to use the Map Editor to edit maps which were already in the game. I've read that the in-game maps cannot be even opened with the Map Editor, so for me, it's another disappointment.

where do I find a manual?

quote:

Originally posted by Rydus:
where do I find a manual?

If you use the windows start menu it’s:

Start/all programs/heroes of might and magic v
And there you see a tap that says ‘Map editor manual’ There are actually six manuals there, dealing with different kinds of things. I would suggest (the only one I had a look at until now) Editor Practical Guide. It seems to be a walkthrough of how to make a map from start till finish.

Note, these are pdf files, so you need adobe reader to open them.

H.W.

here's what i'd expect from a map editor :
*built in menu of undo option
*no serius bugs like a dwelling looking like a big blue box (the pheonix dwelling )
*A button to make mouse point regular to cancel any option i've click now (i figured out how to do it but its twisted)
*no annoying bugs like objects without a pic (Wtf?)
*I'd expect higher perfomance in map editor - its almost as slow as game luckily my computer is lighting fast but i pity all slow computer users - running both map editor and the game might be horrible(at same time)..


hey but thats just me i have high expectations..

And just what is bad about the editor?

Simple, you have to be a programer to use it!

It works fine for me, took an hour to get used to....

Testing a map I created, I'll post when I have it flawless.....

I'm not a map maker... I never really used any other map editor in my life... and I have played heroes since heroes2... and personally I don't find anything that annoying about this editor... maybe you just have used for many years now the heroes 3 editor, and if this is different ... maybe then that's why you say is so unfriendly... any advanced computer tool is not easy when you don't know it...

you must give a chance to the map editor... have a lot of options and functions that I don't know what this are for...

I've had quite a bit of map making experience. Not with HoMM titles though. But many others.

I've messed around for about 10 hours on this one so far, and overall I'm impressed.

The big pluses are: total landscape morphing and texture fading. In a nutshell, the scenery editing is fantastic. Very versatile.

The object interface is a little wonky, but more so something one just has to get use to. I agree about an undo hotkey, and some object selection eases would definately be a plus.

The LUA scripting has a learning curve for those not in the know, true. But once you get your feet wet.. you'll understand how great it is. There is a lot of potential that other editing apps just don't have. You'll come to realize this if you give it some time.

Anyways, overall.. great job on this Nival. Looking forward to seeing how you expand on it in the add-on.

I like the editor. It takes some getting used to moving the map around but the more I use it, the easier it gets.

I'm making a small map. I started it saying it would be multiplayer but I changed my mind. I changed the map to be single player.

If there's no way to change from multi to single after you started a map. Then it'll be a problem. But I think all I have to do is find the way to change it.

Yes, I read the manual, but not all of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord_Crusader:
I'm not a map maker... I never really used any other map editor in my life... and I have played heroes since heroes2... and personally I don't find anything that annoying about this editor... maybe you just have used for many years now the heroes 3 editor, and if this is different ... maybe then that's why you say is so unfriendly... any advanced computer tool is not easy when you don't know it...

you must give a chance to the map editor... have a lot of options and functions that I don't know what this are for...

Um, who do you mean with you?

If you mean me (H.W.) then let me remind that I’m actually VERY enthusiastic about the map editor. That is why I started this topic; because I was amazed to see actually quite some ‘it’s terrible’ posts. I don’t think so. I personally think the map editor is great.

Yes, there are bugs in it, I myself found some. But bug we need to point out here so that they (hopefully) can be corrected. But for user friendliness I honestly think it scores at the top.

Now, if you meant the general ‘you’ when saying ‘you’, then I fully agree with your post.

H.W.

I agree with alias (btw: was this your first positive coment about H5?), although I never was a mapmaker, but the possibilities of the editor seem to be quite good.

However, there is one thing, I woory about: Is is true, that scripts cannot be executed in multi player games? Two mapmakers claimed that on Drachenwadl forum, and they are trustworthy people.

On the other hand, scripts in multiplayer maps aren't really needed at all (at least in H3 it was the case), it's more important for single missions, but still.

Can anyone confirm - or even better - disprove this?

quote:

Originally posted by Hodge_Podge:
I've read that the in-game maps cannot be even opened with the Map Editor, so for me, it's another disappointment.

Omg.. I wanted to use the map editor to try to get rid of the AI cheats in the existing multiplayer maps by editing events for AI.

So, if this what you say is true, this map editor is worth s**t!

as edtior 1.0 its good enough

just one question

if your corsuor is one unit paint(you know...that where i click i put units)

how do i get that off and make my coursor simply selecting again?

quote:

Originally posted by MysticPhoenixDW:
I agree with alias (btw: was this your first positive coment about H5?),

Nope. As for Heroes 5 itself I never been negative about it. I have always said that I like it, and even that I think it is worth the money. About Heroes, I have been positive all the time.

Now, the support, that’s a different matter. And I use the word ‘support’ now more broadly than it’s intended. The sloppiness of Ubi with promising the editor for months WITH the game really pissed me off. The promises they were making in the beginning only not to keep them (patch released that day) really ticked me off. If you aren’t sure; don’t promise it. They started stopped doing that at one point and when Fabrice stated here that they would not set specific dates anymore for patches, I even thanked him for that in that topic.

Maps, that’s another thing that annoyed me; or better said, the lack of it. They should have understood that if there is no map editor, you need to supply new maps from time to time to keep the people interested in the game until you finally do have that map editor out.

I could mention more ‘support’ but I think you know what I mean by now.

But as for the game itself, no, I have always been positive about the game itself.
In fact, I invite you to do a search (if you really want to spent the time needed to read my long posts) to find a spot where I say even ONCE that it’s a lousy game, or that I don’t think it’s worth the money.

No, Heroes 5 is a good game; has been from the start, but the support for that game left much to be desired.

H.W.

quote:

Originally posted by super-bone:
as edtior 1.0 its good enough

just one question

if your corsuor is one unit paint(you know...that where i click i put units)

how do i get that off and make my coursor simply selecting again?

A simple trick someone else suggested is to first click on the tab ‘tiles’ and then click on the tab ‘objects’. You will see that now you have you simple select tool again.

This is something I fully agree is a bit cumbersome and I would have liked to see that you can simply unselect whatever thing you were doing and getting the standard select tool by clicking the right mouse button.

But, who knows. There might be a reason behind it.
In fact, from reading the manual (reading a little every day) the way they suggest that you do things while making the map is to do one kind of thing at a time so that you don’t forget anything. You know, like, first put all the town down, than all the heroes, then all the mines, and so on. So in that light I can understand why the latest tool used stays active. But still, I would have liked to see a more simpler deselect.


H.W.

quote:

Originally posted by alias-hw:
In fact, I invite you to do a search (if you really want to spent the time needed to read my long posts) to find a spot where I say even ONCE that it’s a lousy game, or that I don’t think it’s worth the money.

It wasn't meant to offend you. I just was surprised about such a positive comment, maybe in addition I mixed thins up a little bit.

Any experience on the script multiplayer-issue? Anyone?