In the final analysis, what bugs me most is that BGAE could have been a great game, but somebody settled for good.

please elaborate

-----

I hate that...

a whole team of people spend 3 years developing from nothing... create a whole new engine just for the game... write a story, script, and intermix game genres... get the voice tallent for 5 different languages, market it, and god knows what else...

and then somebody comes along and says... "meh, it could have been great, but somebody settled for good". I hope you didnt spend too much on it buddy, I sure wouldnt want you to have wasted your money paying the developers.

*bump

-----

I do feel that the game could have benefitted from a month or two more development, if nothing else than to fix the bugs. I honestly feel that the game at this point is of beta, rather than retail quality. The bugs are the only real issue, though. The gameplay, story, and other aspects of BG&E are all of top notch. This would have put it past the holiday season, but I think we all agree that that would have been a good thing anyway, as it wouldn't have been in direct competition with all those holiday releases and probably would have sold better.

Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.

Well in MY final analysis, BGAE could have settled for being a good game, but somebody made a great game instead.

I dunno. I guess some people can't see genius when it's slapped in their face. I mean for instance, I for one, never liked Doom. Yeah. Weird.

I never encountered one bug in this game. I got the PC version, and technically, if you build a graphics engine which works on every console machine AND PC, then by all rights I gotta say that they did a stunning job. If anyone here is referring to "bugs" as graphic or screen corruption, unexpected termination of the game or controller input problems... then ok... but if you mean "ohhhh mommy! my square key doesnt work on the triangle slot" then I think I am in the wrong place. The game was awesome, and I'm hard pressed to find any fault with it. Too easy? well I'm sure if they'd have made it harder, and believe me, that's not problem... people would be criticising it saying; "mommy! it's too hard!". Michael Ancel has taken gaming into a new direction, BG&E is a hybrid of game-genres, and hollywood movie, combining elements of amazing graphic detail, unparalelled user involvement into the game, and so much more that my sides are about to split. Maybe I'm just cranking because it's 6am on a saturday and I'm awake instead of getting a lay in... but I really cant see at all how people can say this game needs "bugs" fixed or "better ........". The game was top notch in every sense, it's only failure was the undeserving, unrewarding public it was released to.

<hr>

Perhaps I should clarify... I agree that this game is top notch. The bugs (and there are several of them) are a minor annoyance when compared to the quality presentation. It's just that the game feels like a beta, with all the bugs, rather than a fully polished retail release. They really could have benefitted from an extra month to iron all them out. The simple fact is that this game is the buggiest game I have for my GameCube.

A short list:

Controller bug: if you have more than one controller plugged in, it is seemingly random as to which one the game will use. They obviously didn't think to test the game with more than one controller plugged in - an ameteur mistake.

HH disappears in slaughterhouse: I lost a good 2 hours of play time when this happened to me. Ubi support ignores this one saying that it is a gameplay issue when it is really a trigger problem.

Other trigger issues: there are one time triggers that should expire, but don't. For example, every time you enter the Black Isle, Jade says "We'll find him his earthworms," even though it really should only do it the first time. This is but one example. A minor annoyance, true, but it's very unprofessional.

The triangle key bug... not in the GameCube version, but there's no excuse for this one. The fact that they still haven't released a patch to fix it is appaling.

I also ran into another bug recently... Pey'J was pinned by a Vorax, but the Vorax was invincible. I think it was triggered by me using Jade's super attack at the same time he was pinned, but since it's only happened once I can't be sure.

All of these but the triangle key bug are bugs I've encountered without even looking for bugs.

I can see that a lot of people put a lot of work into the game, and a lot of people did their jobs right, but it fell just short right at the finish line. I suspect they rushed to get it out on time for the holidays, which is something they should not have done. In all honesty, it makes me hesitant to purhase other UBI games in the future. I still plan on getting BG&E 2 if it's ever released. The fact is that they will need to release it, and have it be as bug free as any first party Nintendo game in order to appease my fears about their games.

I don't know if this is what rbfeik was referring to in his post, but it's what I thought of when I read it. The bugs are the only thing keeping this game from being perfect.

Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.

It seems rbfeik doesn't want to elaborate what he/she meant

I do agree that the bugs are unnecassary - it's a shame it occured.

What gets me most is, the patch causes the bugs, yet Ubi don't realize that - or maybe they do...

-----

( I was out of action comp wise for several days )

Problems controlling the game are my complaint.
Seems to me the PC platform is being treated like the ugly sister of gaming. It appears games are developed to run on other platforms and then forced to fit a PC platform.

[This message was edited by rbfeik on Sat April 10 2004 at 10:57 PM.]

I've got the PC version and only encountered a bug ONCE. These people at Ubi...who created this game are absoutle genuises. And making it in FIVE different languages...that is a good thing. It's not a game--it's an interactive movie. I was hooked the second I saw the beginning cutscene. The music...(cheers Christophe Hearl!)...was absoutely fantastic. "Good"...this game was better than great. So, hopefully, maybe if you read about how many awards it's been given, you will reconsider. (at least rbfeik didnt say they hated it...)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shanuiat least rbfeik didnt say they hated it...)

http://www.freewebs.com/felloffsix

---

Not at all - thats the point - 90-95% of the game is top stuff - which is why the problems stick out so. Maybe my first statement sounded more critical than I meant it to be, its just that it needed a little more testing and tweaking.

I've already been exhaustingly boring on this particular subject long ago (visit these forums infrequently), but I'll recap.

I agree with rbfeik. PC gamers expect a certain level of control that the mouse and keyboard combination allows. Namely full camera control and consistent controls for movement. There are places in BG&E where the camera is locked off and the character control feels uncomfortable. The camera lock offs were, I feel, artist design decisions. It is during those times that the controls purposely switch function. Left now becomes right, down becomes up, and so on. This only happens in a few spots. Mostly during platform puzzle areas. Occasionally during some of the sneaking around in the Alpha storeroom. I think this was done to be consistant with gaming platform (XBOX, BC, PS2, etc) control styles. It's one reason I have don't have game platforms, because of this dumbed down control scheme. I am prefectly capable translating on screen movement control regardless of character orientation. This is a personal beef. But it appears a few others feel the same.

Everything else about the game is top notch. The music (absolutely love), the cinemaphotography, the fighting, the emotions and themes expressed thoughout the whole game are all top notch. The few bugs that creep through are forgivable. And the occasionally poor control scheme is forgivable too. At least to me. The game is so astounding in all other areas.

To be specific......

1. the boat - the camera 'slides' off to the side - which is what causes spin outs at high speeds - in the races

2 when jade is fighting - (mainly at the end ) - she takes a wack at 3 eyes - then you want to charge her, but the game reads the button press as a continuation of the last command so she is jumping around instead of charging.

3 fighting the Reaper (? - the big yellow thing)- the camera so sloppy - that its a blind guess where Jade is on the walkways.

4 In the tunnel of mines - the camera comes in side boat and one has no idea where to go. Also I had the camera go into spins there too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rbfeik:
Not at all - thats the point - 90-95% of the game is top stuff - which is why the problems stick out so. Maybe my first statement sounded more critical than I meant it to be, its just that it needed a little more testing and tweaking.

---

Actually, that's exactly how I feel about it. For you it's control and camera issues. For me it's the bugs. I agree that the camera control isn't what it could/should be (the best game for camera control I've ever played is Zelda: Wind Waker. Every game developer should look at how it's done there and try to duplicate it). But for control, console games (which is what BG&E is) often don't translate well to a PC. That's why I don't usually buy PC ports of console games. I use the GameCube version, and the controls are fine. I couldn't see myself trying to play this game and getting very far with it using a keyboard and mouse. Yes, some games lend themselves to that type of input, but this isn't one of them.

Intelligent responses welcome, flames will be met with marshmallows.

Still working on the game, but since the discussion is open, I'll present a few of my concerns.

First, as it's been mentioned, are the instances where you're forced into a pseudo static camera angle. Some cases, I see this being done to give the player the "best shot" be it for artistic, or gameplay reasons. Both, I can agree with, but more frequently than not, I've found it very frustrating. Most instances were designed with analogue control in mind, and there have been a few instances where four way directionals just don't cut it, given the camera. I can't speak for the console counter parts, and would imagine this to be a non-issue, given analogue control across all platforms, but it's uncomfortable at best on the PC. Fortunately, few and far between.

The hover control is fairly wonky. I'm still getting used to it, and think I'd have given up in frustration if there weren't a cockpit view. Of course, there is, so I can't complain too much, but things still feel a little stiff. Maybe just me. Again. Can't complain too much, because I can get by easy enough.

No gamepad support!! Biggest gripe so far. Took me a while to get used to the keyboard/mouse interface they've setup, and admittedly, it's not at all bad, save the above points, which are managable. All the same, the game still feels like a console release, and somehow feels broken without a gamepad. I'm real appreciative they put attention enough into the PC peripherals, but some direct input control support would make things complete. Hate seeing one or the other getting slacked on.

Bugs. Just managed to get through the slaughterhouse, thanks to 3RD party save edittors, design SPECIFICALLY to circumvent the issues which were caused by the update, no less. This one's just sorry, and while there are apprently careless errors in other releases, the PC version seems to be the bastard child.

What are my thoughts so far, in light of all of this? It's still a marvelously well crafted game. I may even have to pick up a console port of it, just so I can have the option of a gamepad. I'm not one to readily buy games unless they're top quality, much less two, but seeing as I'm on the train so late, I'll still be getting two copies for under 50 US$, which is less than release. All in all, (though I still have yet to complete the game) I think the worst problem with the game, is the simple fact it didn't sell so well. Yeah, I wasn't on at the beginning, but I'm also really poor. (took me this long to save up. )

EDIT: Just completed the game, and I have to say, the last boss fight is easily the most disappointing piece of this creation. Despite there being the above problems, none were at all game breaking (save the 1.01 update which breaks the Slaughterhouse). In fact, the game was so fantastic (as far as I'm concerned) this simple game of memory was utterly insulting. Out of all the inventive, intelligent, and often times beautiful content that was developed for this game, from the characters, to the world, to the story, and even how the player interacted to unfold said story was nothing short of brilliance. It's such a stark and near painful contrast to the unimaginative, repetative, and down right frustrating epic encounter which brought this game to a close.

I'm certain many of you out there didn't find the bout frustrating, but this is coming from my persepctive of having to play go fish with someone who has the same hand. The disappointment is what stems the frustration. If only it were minor details, like circumstantial control issues, a few clipping issues. The norm. This wouldn't even be such an issue if we weren't talking about the very last interactive element of the game, which the player walks away with to have fresh on the mind when reflecting on the game as a whole. I don't think I'd mind the ending with such little closure. Sure, I'd have felt a little cheated, after getting so attatched to all the characters; however, that fight really drove home the point that this game was rushed in the final stages of development and testing. Another week and I'm SURE somebody could have come up with a more involving, entertaining, and challenging system for the last encounter to wrap up and conclude such a marverlous project!

I'm deffinitely rambling here, but that was a very bad place to show off the game's weak points. Guess that wraps things up. I'm choosing not to let this issue reflect on my overall opinion of the game, since it was only one very small part of a whole. I really believe this is was a big mistake, design wise. We all make mistakes, though. So good game! GREAT game in fact. Can't wait for more! Just no more of that insulting interactive material we had at the very end.

[This message was edited by TheBrokenDog on Thu April 15 2004 at 02:35 AM.]

Clomer1 ~ Theres also the "rubble all pads" bug on the Gamecube.
And the wavebird glitchs occasionaly.


It seems to be BG&E did need longer developement, but the fact that it is still AAA dispite these things is a testimant to the team involved.

The only critism i have as to the game itself, is i feel the story could have been less black and white.

I loved the last boss incidently, the reverse controlls was a really cool idea.

quote:

Not at all - thats the point - 90-95% of the game is top stuff - which is why the problems stick out so. Maybe my first statement sounded more critical than I meant it to be, its just that it needed a little more testing and tweaking.

Ohh you have the pc version. Yeah I think it would have been better if they just didn't release the pc version because its really not suited for that platform.

quote:

I hate that...

a whole team of people spend 3 years developing from nothing... create a whole new engine just for the game... write a story, script, and intermix game genres... get the voice tallent for 5 different languages, market it, and god knows what else...

and then somebody comes along and says... "meh, it could have been great, but somebody settled for good". I hope you didnt spend too much on it buddy, I sure wouldnt want you to have wasted your money paying the developers.

I would still agree with rbeik in a way because I think the game could have been even beter if it had gotten more support and attention. I still think the xbo version was great anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by rbfeik:
In the final analysis, what bugs me most is that BGAE could have been a great game, but somebody settled for good.

BG&E is better than your favorite game.

quote:

If it weren't for the bugs...

Bugs don't count toward the quality of a game, period. They aren't intentional. So that complaint is out the window.

Also, this is one of the most bug-free games I've ever played, don't know what rock you're living under.

quote:

BG&E isn't suited for the PC...

Lol, it's exactly the same experience. That's why it's called a port strike three

its the best game ever... that's it... nothing more, nothing less.

The Godfather - Movies
Beyond Good & Evil - Video Games