quote:

Originally posted by darkenega:
You're right. You're absolutely right: PS2 was the weakest console of the 6th generation (if you don't count the Dreamcast, man i love that machine )

And now the Wii is the weakest of the 3. Luckily, the Wii has something to back it up. It's aimed to a different audience, the more casual gamers, you know.

not really, yes it has a broader appeal, but it also appeals to the hardcores and has games for them.

And again, PS2 was also more casual than others, Singstar, Buzz, eyetoy's sold in the millions, as did bad movie tie-ins and cartoon show games; that simply means bigger market.

quote:

I'm not saying that every game on the Wii sucks. But most of the games that get ported to the Wii aren't as good as the other versions.

I understand, but who's to blame about those is not the hardware, it's the developers.

Also, I can't imagine for example most multiplatform games last gen looking better on PS2, or running better (specially FPS's and even Ubisoft games back then) but they still treated it with respect... and didn't say it wasn't a hardcore platform just the same.

Downgraded? perhaps, but mostly not shameful attempts.

quote:

The games you just mentioned (except mh3) are Wii exclusives/editions. They were made for the Wii. So those games are better, you're right about that too.

Actually MH3 is Wii exclusive.

A good example of a good downgraded port would be RE4 on PS2, it has extras to make up for it (and trust me, it was downgraded a lot)

quote:

Also about the downgrading: i don't think that they have a choice other than to downgrade the game. If it gets ported, then Ancel is probably doing his best to make the game as good as the other versions (BG&E is his masterpiece, and he doesn't want to ruin it).

If they start making other platform than Wii as the main platform of course they'll have dificulties, but that's not necessary for every game they make, that's the point.

If they did the game for PC standard it would also be a nightmare to port down to consoles (Crysis comes to mind) as a PS3 game made from ground would be dificult to put on X360 and vice-versa, but that's not due to power but different architectures.

quote:

Hardware is something important for consoles. A few examples, the PS3 has some backward compability issues for some of its games. It used to be one of the Playstation's strong points since you got an immense game library.

No, hardware is not important, otherwise weaker platforms wouldn't have leaded in the past and wouldn't lead now; even for the hardcore.

Sure more power is nice and all that, but in the end... I don't care if DQIX on DS is a downgrade from DQVIII on PS2. And that's the market at work.

quote:

Another example is the Sega Saturn. A badly manufactured console that was supposed to be better than Playstation and N64, but they just ruined it.

Saturn wasn't bad at all, it was a beast; but it had like... 7 CPU and was a bitch to program, and cutting costs was harder than with the much simpler PSone.

That's why it failed, the inferior PSone hardware had market advantage in price-point, profitability, cut corners, development costs...

quote:

Hardware is something very important too, and the Wii doesn't have the hardware to be console for hardcore gamers.

That's the part I don't and can't agree.

Gameboy, PSone, PS2, DS... all were weaker than the competition... and leaded. Didn't they have the hardware for the hardcores?

Sure, GC and Xbox for example were hardcore driven consoles while PS2 was more diverse... but hell it it wasn't obligatory for any self respecting hardcore; infact, most likely it was the console where most people turned hardcore last gen, since it could be a entry door for the industry with loads of games to choose from. Nintendo Wii is the same, dismissing it... is wrong.

The distintion shouldn't even be made IMO.

I breifely skimed through these pages, and what I saw was what i'd hoped not to. Nothing stirs up controversy like a mention of the consoles eigh? To be honest the wii isn't a bad or gimmicky console it's just...well...different. The flood of lets-see-who-can-break-their-wrist-first 3rd party games I think are what's causing all the console bashing. Sure mario, metroid, and zelda are all there as the unforgotten staples but so what if their not blasting out new francises every month? So what if the've stuck with those francises since the beggining and have merely released essential upgrades with new and interesting features? Isn't that what most francises do? Dare I say halo? The point is criticising the games because they're just remastered versions is a nitpick if they're at least decent games. And the whole introducing a new audience is a little shaky but they haven't forgotten their fans just yet.

Now moving on from all that console talk that's left a funny taste in my mouth, I don't see why it shouldn't be released for the wii but not an exclusive I don't think. Whilst the wii would be a good choice if done right in terms of platform capability (and after seeing brawl and galaxy I have no doubt it can handel those cutscenes), I think it still has potential on the other consoles. A multi-platform like before would be good, mabye with a little more marketing this time.

off-topic:

Saturn has 8 processors
and i though that MH3 was also on PS3, unless the MH stands for another game

back on topic:

Judging from the teaser, the game's probably gonna be on PS3 and the 360 (maybe even PC too)

But Ancel's probably not gonna deny his masterpiece to the Wii owners. Sure, the game has to be downgraded in that case, but i think he's gonna do his best to get the maximum out of that console. After all, the original game scored very well on the Gamecube.

The result might not be as good as the other versions, but that's usually the case when a company ports their games to the Wii.

It just depends on Ubi's goodwill, if they're gonna spend extra money on the developement of the game on the Wii

It's too early to tell though. All we do is speculating about that teaser and making early assumptions. Just sit back and relax

Please don't let this thread turn into a 'which sold more' and 'which is better' etc thread, or else Jasminam or myself will close it.

Thanks

Let me just sum up this whole situation with a few points:

• The BG&E 2 platforms have not been announced.
• The BG&E 2 trailer is far above Wii-level graphics.
• A Wii version of what we have seen would take a lot of extra work to create and be graphically inferior. There's no way around that.

And that's where it stands.

quote:

Originally posted by darkenega:
and i though that MH3 was also on PS3, unless the MH stands for another game

Monster Hunter 3 is Wii-only exclusive now.

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But Ancel's probably not gonna deny his masterpiece to the Wii owners. Sure, the game has to be downgraded in that case, but i think he's gonna do his best to get the maximum out of that console. After all, the original game scored very well on the Gamecube.

If not him Ubisoft will, or treat us ridiculously by comparison; they already are and not even caring to address it.

quote:

It just depends on Ubi's goodwill, if they're gonna spend extra money on the developement of the game on the Wii

Extra money on a project that, if done from ground on Wii, or with Wii in mind would be much cheaper than the other versions for Ubisoft.

And also, a 30 million userbase console in 18 months depending on their goodwill is nothing but a joke.

Maybe Michel Ancel would not want people to play an inferior version of his masterpeice.

Last generation I would have cared if games came to the xbox with ps1 graphics bcos ps1 graphics did leave a bit to be desired. But this generation Im not as pessimistic about last generation graphics bcoz last generation graphics were actually quite good.

Also Id like to say that the new Spyro game looks fatastic on the 360 and its also being made for wii's and handhelds.

I actually think its a bigger hasle to design games for the ps3 than it is for the wii and it seems unesesary when most of the fans are in the wii market while the ps3 market may not have enough. And last time, according to a poll at the official European BG&E site, most people played BG&E on the PC and Gamecube so if I were a manager I would be tempted to just focus on lower end pcs and the wii. The fact that ubi arent doing this indicates they arent thinking about money so we should be grateful.

I was initially pessimisic about a wii version bcoz I thought it might harm the game but its possible that being on next gen systems is harming the game too bcoz the teaser suggests they are making the game look grittier in order to appeal to the 360 and ps3 markets.

quote:

Originally posted by mystique1987:

I was initially pessimisic about a wii version bcoz I thought it might harm the game but its possible that being on next gen systems is harming the game too bcoz the teaser suggests they are making the game look grittier in order to appeal to the 360 and ps3 markets.

This, you sir win the intrawebs. (and this thread)

Not necessarily due to platforms themselves, but artistic approach to the project nevertheless, and yes I'd agree it's most likely trying to appeal to such "hyper-realistic" demand. And probably shouldn't.

quote:

Originally posted by mystique1987:
Maybe Michel Ancel would not want people to play an inferior version of his masterpeice.

He allowed a PS2 version. Everything else you said is choice. There's a lot of teenage angst getting shot around. Horsepower doesn't equal better. It just means better graphics.


Here are some pre-beta screen shots from a wii game being developed ground-up. Gameplay.





Prebetta. On par with the untouchable Half Life 2 on xbox and better than Halo 2. It has the juice to run better games. Not what we saw in that teaser. Because my gog that was incredibl. But the PS3 doesn't have that kind of horsepower. And PS look at Haze. Juice doesn't make a great game. Artists to.

I think releasing a ps2 version of BG&E last generation is different from releasing a wii version this generation bcoz last gen the ps2 was still pretty close to the other platforms and the graphics were still next-gen/present gen. However this generation there is a huge gap between the wii and the other consoles so the wii version could be considered an inferior experience.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by mystique1987:

I was initially pessimisic about a wii version bcoz I thought it might harm the game but its possible that being on next gen systems is harming the game too bcoz the teaser suggests they are making the game look grittier in order to appeal to the 360 and ps3 markets.
This, you sir win the intrawebs. (and this thread)

Not necessarily due to platforms themselves, but artistic approach to the project nevertheless, and yes I'd agree it's most likely trying to appeal to such "hyper-realistic" demand. And probably shouldn't.

What do you mean when you say Ive won the 'intrawebs'?

Also the reason I stipulated that the grittier look might be a console related decision is bcoz I think theres a trend of some 'magical' looking games not selling as well on the next gen consoles bcoz the owners are usually older and prefer serious and realistic looking games. So its possible roughing up the art style was an attempt to broaden BG&E2's appeal to the next gen console owners and never would have happened if wii had been the primary market. Also even more ironic is that that gamers who like gritty looking games probably never heard of BG&E and are less likely to buy an adventure game let alone one featuring a talking pig. So in effect theyve just made the target audience alot narrower bcoz its less appealing to 'fantasy' and 'gritty' gamers and the lucartive wii markets also excluded. But the fans with 360's and PS3's will still buy it(though thats not alot) and I actually think it might released for pc and wii. Also Im just making assumptions based on 1 teaser and a few wiki articles.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mystique1987,

quote:

What do you mean when you say Ive won the 'intrawebs'?

nothing in particular, just that I think you're spot-on with that one.

quote:

Also the reason I stipulated that the grittier look might be a console related decision is bcoz I think theres a trend of some 'magical' looking games not selling as well on the next gen consoles bcoz the owners are usually older and prefer serious and realistic looking games. So its possible roughing up the art style was an attempt to broaden BG&E2's appeal to the next gen console owners and never would have happened if wii had been the primary market. Also even more ironic is that that gamers who like gritty looking games probably never heard of BG&E and are less likely to buy an adventure game let alone one featuring a talking pig. So in effect theyve just made the target audience alot narrower bcoz its less appealing to 'fantasy' and 'gritty' gamers and the lucartive wii markets also excluded. But the fans with 360's and PS3's will still buy it(though thats not alot) and I actually think it might released for pc and wii. Also Im just making assumptions based on 1 teaser and a few wiki articles.

not necessarily older though, "if it's not dark and gritty it's not worthy" or something, I can't picture most adults with no complexes not playing such game because of it, even if perhaps being dark and grittier makes up for a flashier entry door.

I remember giving more importance to being a adult game... before being a adult. (and after a few tries, settled for not realistically caring just wanting quality)

What bugs me the most about discussions like this is that people forget that graphics do not a game make. Take WoW, for example: I've seen complaints on the WoW forums about the graphics in that game, but the fact is that while they may be technically inferior to what modern gaming systems can produce, those graphics are absolutely beautiful. I wouldn't want to trade WoW's graphics style for something more realistic, it would ruin the game for me. Besides, it's not about realistic graphics, it's about gameplay.

The graphics capabilities of the GCN and the original XBox are quite good. Some awesome looking games came out for those platforms (BG&E included). The Wii has superior technical abilities to those platforms, and so the graphics will be at least as good as what we saw there, and probably better.

As for controls, while a Wii version will certainly support the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo, there's no reason why they couldn't support the classic controller and maybe even GCN controllers as well. That's what Mario Kart Wii does: you can choose to use the Wii Wheel, or you can play with any of the other controller options (I personally use the Wiimote/Nunchuck with MK: Wii).

So any BG&E sequel would be doable on a Wii. Whether or not they decide to spend the extra time and money to make it happen is up to them, though I hope they do.

quote:

Originally posted by Clomer1:
What bugs me the most about discussions like this is that people forget that graphics do not a game make. Take WoW, for example: I've seen complaints on the WoW forums about the graphics in that game, but the fact is that while they may be technically inferior to what modern gaming systems can produce, those graphics are absolutely beautiful. I wouldn't want to trade WoW's graphics style for something more realistic, it would ruin the game for me. Besides, it's not about realistic graphics, it's about gameplay.

The graphics capabilities of the GCN and the original XBox are quite good. Some awesome looking games came out for those platforms (BG&E included). The Wii has superior technical abilities to those platforms, and so the graphics will be at least as good as what we saw there, and probably better.

As for controls, while a Wii version will certainly support the Wiimote/Nunchuck combo, there's no reason why they couldn't support the classic controller and maybe even GCN controllers as well. That's what Mario Kart Wii does: you can choose to use the Wii Wheel, or you can play with any of the other controller options (I personally use the Wiimote/Nunchuck with MK: Wii).

So any BG&E sequel would be doable on a Wii. Whether or not they decide to spend the extra time and money to make it happen is up to them, though I hope they do.

I agree

Hardware doesn't make a game "Hardcore". It's like saying that having a compact car doesn't make you an automotive fan, just because you don't have a Ferrari.

That's just plain dumb. Not everybody can have all 3 consoles. Anyways, if you foloow that line of thinking, would that make all xbox and PS2 games NOT "Hardcore" because their Hardware specs are old? What makes a "Hardcore" a "Hardcore" is the Software, doesn't matter if it's on the Wii or HD consoles.

I just hope that if BG&E2 has the graphics I saw in the teaser, I will be very disappointed. I like the "Old" Pey'j and I rather they stay in the old art style with better textures.

Seeing that new trailer was like... watching Two Towers teaser with somebody else playing Gandalf other than Ian Mckellen. It made me cringe.

Either way, I don't think they care.

quote:

Originally posted by Enycma:
Hardware doesn't make a game "Hardcore". It's like saying that having a compact car doesn't make you an automotive fan, just because you don't have a Ferrari.

That's just plain dumb. Not everybody can have all 3 consoles. Anyways, if you foloow that line of thinking, would that make all xbox and PS2 games NOT "Hardcore" because their Hardware specs are old? What makes a "Hardcore" a "Hardcore" is the Software, doesn't matter if it's on the Wii or HD consoles.

I just hope that if BG&E2 has the graphics I saw in the teaser, I will be very disappointed. I like the "Old" Pey'j and I rather they stay in the old art style with better textures.

Seeing that new trailer was like... watching Two Towers teaser with somebody else playing Gandalf other than Ian Mckellen. It made me cringe.

Either way, I don't think they care.

OMG I totally agree and Ive been asserting this. Technology has progressed to a stage where just about everything looks fantastic so its not absolutly necesary to keep pushing the limits just for the sake of it especially when doing so will compromise art style and design. The new trailer just shows of technical prowess but the 1st game had not only technical prowess but form and design to make it attractive.

I think graphic upgrades and artistic changes are necesary to make the sequel different but not so dramatic considering the 1st game was so short so people will be happy to have more of the same for this sequel and bcoz its been so long since the 1st game was relased and new consoles are out people will need something recognizable this time around.

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Maybe Michel Ancel would not want people to play an inferior version of his masterpeice.

I think that's very wrong. One of the key aspects of Michel's style is to not give a jot about poly count. Just look at Rayman 2 or Beyond Good and Evil. There were some huge flat surfaces and straight lines in those games, but what Ancel does is gives the small number of polys beautiful textures, and actually I think the resultant effect is very charming.

Definitely, I don't think Michel regards technical inferiority as bearing any influence upon the quality of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Gloon:

quote:

Maybe Michel Ancel would not want people to play an inferior version of his masterpeice.

I think that's very wrong. One of the key aspects of Michel's style is to not give a jot about poly count. Just look at Rayman 2 or Beyond Good and Evil. There were some huge flat surfaces and straight lines in those games, but what Ancel does is gives the small number of polys beautiful textures, and actually I think the resultant effect is very charming.

Definitely, I don't think Michel regards technical inferiority as bearing any influence upon the quality of the game.

Your right

Still the 1st game was also pretty cutting edge and atleast looked good next to all the other curr3ent games. So I wouldnt encourage a wii version if it means that it will turn out like crash pf the titans. it still need to make some progress.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mystique1987,

PC owner here, who hates his own platform for the constant bugs and the dire need to upgrade far too often; I almost bought a Wii console because of the fascinating controls, but didn't, due to the inferior graphics and ... lack of money.

That's my background. Judge my opinion from that standpoint

First, I still think that no platform is officially affirmed or dismissed as potential BG&E2 platform. It's just that PS3 and X360 are the most probable. Hopefully, it's all four of the leading platforms.

YES, the Wii would have very "inferior" graphics. It's no use backing up the console by presenting pictures of "what the console can really do". But it is the mark of good developers to program versions of their games which at least try to push the boundaries of inferior consoles. And trust me, I've consciously experienced the times of the Amiga 500, much can be done given adequate treatment.

The question for Ubisoft is, of course, "will it sell", and frankly, no one can answer that question conclusively.

I'd really wish for everyone to get their share of the game they have been waiting for so long, and I'd be willing to bear less attractive graphics in order to make the game run on less advanced PCs.

On to gameplay issues... after Ubisoft reveals ANYTHING new. Of course, if BG&E2 doesn't get a PC version, I'm outta here...

quote:

Originally posted by Lyogron:
PC owner here, who hates his own platform for the constant bugs and the dire need to upgrade far too often; I almost bought a Wii console because of the fascinating controls, but didn't, due to the inferior graphics and ... lack of money.

That's my background. Judge my opinion from that standpoint

First, I still think that no platform is officially affirmed or dismissed as potential BG&E2 platform. It's just that PS3 and X360 are the most probable. Hopefully, it's all four of the leading platforms.

YES, the Wii would have very "inferior" graphics. It's no use backing up the console by presenting pictures of "what the console can really do". But it is the mark of good developers to program versions of their games which at least try to push the boundaries of inferior consoles. And trust me, I've consciously experienced the times of the Amiga 500, much can be done given adequate treatment.

The question for Ubisoft is, of course, "will it sell", and frankly, no one can answer that question conclusively.

I'd really wish for everyone to get their share of the game they have been waiting for so long, and I'd be willing to bear less attractive graphics in order to make the game run on less advanced PCs.

On to gameplay issues... after Ubisoft reveals ANYTHING new. Of course, if BG&E2 doesn't get a PC version, I'm outta here...

Thats what I hate about pc's you need to keep upgrading to get the best out of it and even then there will be times when your behind the latest consoles

It wouldn't suit the game. All the Wii games are for a completely casual audience that buy games not for the story, not for the fantastic environment or art work. They buy games that the think will be fun, like 101 mini-games or Beach Party Mini-Games 4. Beyond Good and Evil 2, with its fairly indepth story (for a video game) wouldn't work on wii. Maybe Jades Photo Gallery though...