Theres been alot of people on the forums since the game was released complaining about people killing their high ranked units blah blah blah and there are alot of people who tell them to STFU.

Everyone will admit that unit killing can put people off the game and so we don't have the same problem in Endwar 2 how about a compromise.


Unit killing stays in the game, airstrike and WMDs can still kill units BUT downed units can only be force-attacked.

Example.
A player orders his Tanks to attack some Transports, short battle and the Transports are downed and awaiting evac. If the player then wanted to kill the enemy Transports, he wouldn't be able to kill them by ordering the Tanks to attack again. Instead the player would have to move the cursor thing over the enemy Transports and double-tap A or X (or LMB) which forces them to attack. The devs could chalk it up to the soldiers having some sort of Honour or Moral Standards about killing a defeated opponent.


Hopefully, that will reduce the number of people intentionally killing units and then moving onto the next as the option won't be readily available.

Question:
Would you like that as a compromise??

Choices:
Yes
No
Who cares

 

quote:

If the player then wanted to kill the enemy Transports, he wouldn't be able to kill them by ordering the Tanks to attack again. Instead the player would have to move the cursor thing over the enemy Transports and double-tap A or X (or LMB) which forces them to attack. The devs could chalk it up to the soldiers having some sort of Honour or Moral Standards about killing a defeated opponent.

Isn't that just how it works in game now though? That's how I always do it at least.

A good compromise along the moral lines I think would be either reduced credit reward for killing units(simple compromise) or better yet if they add a morale system(kinda like total war games) that will cause units to loose morale if they are ordered to fire upon surrendered hostiles, likewise you should be able to capture downed soldiers(would require making evac choppers arrive later then they do now) and call in your own choppers to pick them up, you then get a decent credit reward at end of battle(PoW would be automatically ransomed back)and/or the unit that captured them get's a big XP boost.

Either way assuming there are wmds and EW in endwar 2 a WMD should not kill a shieldless enemy, or at least not one at full health.

I think a morality system would work best. For example, if you order a unit to attack a downed unit, they may evacuate and be removed from your battalion. However, the more units they kill, the more willing they are to kill them. Essentially, you could have a battallion leaned entirely towards unit killing, but the risk of losing units could be very discouraging.

Or you could have xp incentives, less xp for every downed unit or depromotions and lost upgrades if you unit kill too much. But if you DON'T unit kill, then you get more xp. And that xp can be used for a special upgrade called boot camp, which ranks up recruits to regulars and regulars to hardened units, but it's 500,000 for the first upgrade and 1,000,000 for the second.

All you have to do is move the cursor over a downed enemy and instead of attack it says kill. Atleast it did when I last played.

But I was just thinking about making it harder to intentionally kill units.


And I don't see how killing an enemy unit would lower the moral of your own men, there not going to be afraid to fight if they kill an enemy, and removing a unit from the battalion is a little...excessive.

I like the idea of capturing units though.

quote:

And I don't see how killing an enemy unit would lower the moral of your own men, there not going to be afraid to fight if they kill an enemy

They wouldn't be afraid no but you brought up the moral standards/honor of the men, if they see it as wrong to fire upon wounded solders then they will suffer a morale boost, doesn't mean they would run awya but they would be a little bit less effective in combat until it improved.

The higher morale a unit has the better they fight, they never will retreat on their own though.
Capturing soldiers would provide a big morale boost.
Receiving a order to fire on downed units would lower morale a bit
Receiving a order to attack a target with good odds will raise morale very slightly
Receiving a order to attack a target with bad odds of success will lower it drastically(in endwar units will say when it's a bad match, so the system has a base there)
Ordering a retreat would lower morale but getting away will raise it back.

Something like that would be awesome to see in adition to endwars features.

When I said that I meant if you told them to attack a downed unit (like you would currently) they might say 'they're already beaten' hence the forcing them to attack. I wasn't reffering to the morale system, just a simple fix.


If they did put what you said in, you wouldn't really see it unless they gave them flags like in Total War.

maybe put a limit on the amount of units that can be killed per game? say, 1 or 2?

Honestly the idea of a reward for not killing units just ****es me off, and i didn't even do it when i played.

Rather then a bonus how about if a player unit kills excessively over multiple matches then during unit selection you get told something along the lines about the commander "not being merciful" so that players have ample warning to look after their units, if your units get in position to be lost after being told that then it's your problem.

What counts as excessive is up to debate but in my mind it's over 4 units a match, now that wouldn't count if the enemy killed over 4 units first and it would be kinda of nice if that kept happening to you and you got revenge that the enemy gets some sort of message about you being vengeful if your units are killed.

@b_4721
I would hardly consider men who are evacuating to fight another day "surrendered hostiles" so soldiers should feel no problems with shooting them, if their was a PoW option then they should feel something but there isn't just yet, and if there was PoW option then i would hope that 2 thing happen.

A) Make it so they stay out of action for a few turns to make it so that the player who lost them has a reason to get them before they are taken PoW and that people who unit kill to help their faction can help through taking PoWs

B)That if captured a unit loses a rank or 2 for the same reasons

new idea

keep unit killing, but as in previous post, just have them lose one rank instead of falling all the way to recruit.

too many ideas from all of us, hardly anyone agrees, so WTF is ubi gonna care about our ideas anyways

quote:

Originally posted by b_4721:

quote:

And I don't see how killing an enemy unit would lower the moral of your own men, there not going to be afraid to fight if they kill an enemy

They wouldn't be afraid no but you brought up the moral standards/honor of the men, if they see it as wrong to fire upon wounded solders then they will suffer a morale boost, doesn't mean they would run awya but they would be a little bit less effective in combat until it improved.

The higher morale a unit has the better they fight, they never will retreat on their own though.
Capturing soldiers would provide a big morale boost.
Receiving a order to fire on downed units would lower morale a bit
Receiving a order to attack a target with good odds will raise morale very slightly
Receiving a order to attack a target with bad odds of success will lower it drastically(in endwar units will say when it's a bad match, so the system has a base there)
Ordering a retreat would lower morale but getting away will raise it back.

Something like that would be awesome to see in adition to endwars features.

If there was a morale system i would hope that their would be multiple versions so that we aren't forced to morale system we don't agree with.

Make it so that depending on what your forces mentality is then actions have different morale effects.

Aggressive mentality could get bonuses from attacking even against the odds, no problem killing but retreating is a way to bring your morale to rock bottom very quickly.

Honorable mentality gets bonuses from letting the enemy off the field, has no problems with retreating but if you call in supports to deal with a unit that you haven't engaged then your units aren't going to be happy, exception would be if it's threatening to counter one of your units.
Entirely wrong word choice for name because it's meaning changes depending on who you are but the best i could think of.

Defender (turtle) mentality could get a bonus from staying in one place for a period of time and/or staying close to an objective, doesn't get as penalized for being hit by artillery (didn't mention because it should be moderately demoralizing to all forces ) but having any unit caught out in the open (unless a counter to it's counter is nearby to support) by it's counter equals a big hit to moral for all units.

quote:

Originally posted by gentry420:
too many ideas from all of us, hardly anyone agrees, so WTF is ubi gonna care about our ideas anyways

Especially when this was about making it harder to kill units and not a morality system for if you do kill units.

quote:

Originally posted by N3V30:

quote:

Originally posted by gentry420:
too many ideas from all of us, hardly anyone agrees, so WTF is ubi gonna care about our ideas anyways

Especially when this was about making it harder to kill units and not a morality system for if you do kill units.

Well I'm sorry for de railing your thread...however you asked if it was a good compromise and I offered a different one...

I got a simple idea.

A sort of "Karma Meter" that players can view.

People who often unit kill will have a lower score and those who don't have a higher score.


Keep everything intact, but just give others a simple indication of chronic killers.

As for actually being on topic, 95% of unit kills are intentional anyways. The other 5% is gunships over water/buildings, artillery fire/crossfire, and/or wanton airstrikes on weak units.

What in the world is a karma system going to do?

"Oh god, he has low karma! Let me Evac and take a loss while his record indicates a win"

"Well, he has wiped out my battalion, but that's ok, I knew it would happen, he has low karma. That makes it ok."

I made a suggestion in the improvements to endwar 2 thread that would help with unit killing, at least in my opinion. Make the primary focuses of your battalion, example, Gunships and Riflemen for airborne, gain experience faster. And when they die, they start at regular. That way unit killing your main units doesn't hurt as much. It also adds to the importance of what battalion you pick.

And for assault battalions with no specialized units, just give a slight XP bonus across the board.

quote:

Originally posted by Pal87:
What in the world is a karma system going to do?

"Oh god, he has low karma! Let me Evac and take a loss while his record indicates a win"

"Well, he has wiped out my battalion, but that's ok, I knew it would happen, he has low karma. That makes it ok."

I made a suggestion in the improvements to endwar 2 thread that would help with unit killing, at least in my opinion. Make the primary focuses of your battalion, example, Gunships and Riflemen for airborne, gain experience faster. And when they die, they start at regular. That way unit killing your main units doesn't hurt as much. It also adds to the importance of what battalion you pick.

And for assault battalions with no specialized units, just give a slight XP bonus across the board.

Love this idea

If you actually had a chance to leave before the match was full(unlike you do now in 1v1s) then a "karma" system might work, can just leave if you find someone with a low score.

Like a ready button both players have to press.

All good, but I think it should also prevent units from dying unless deliberately targeted in this way, or hit by WMD when weakened. This includes air strikes, long-range artillery attacks, etc. which hit the unit after it's downed.

Basically, only way to kill a unit without a WMD is to disable it first then force-fire to kill it. Won't discourage people who intentionally unit-kill, but will reduce the problems where someone loses a unit then goes on a rampage when it hadn't been intentional.

quote:

Originally posted by b_4721:
If you actually had a chance to leave before the match was full(unlike you do now in 1v1s) then a "karma" system might work, can just leave if you find someone with a low score.

Like a ready button both players have to press.

in other words, punish the worst unit killers by making others notwant to play them.

Well would anyone in their right mind want to play with someone they knew would kill their units? I think not.

Besides, if someone gets to the point no one is willing to play with them, it's probably their own fault anyways.

And sure, someone who has "positive karma" score might go off and kill 22 units in a single match, but that's just that much less likely to happen.

Hell, maybe it could just be a simple ratio of downed/killed units, rather than karma.

How about this:


RETREAT YOUR ****ING UNITS and stop crying. There should be no change in the UK system. Make them harder to kill you say, So you would rather your guy be KIA @ two bars so MAYBE he can evac? Hahah, That gives me more time to shoot at them, without you shooting at me. I do like the POW situation but it should be done in the same game like a trade, Or if they decline a trade you torture that POW for information about, say, where his artillery/CV is. It should then be demoted one rank(for giving vital info out), with a combat effectiveness of 75%(for the recuits being substituded) for 3 turns. ( Due to broken bones healing/3 weeks to heal is exceptional.)Take AWAY credits for unitkilling? What is this, A tea party? Orders are to be taken out, remember, killing people THREATNING your life style should be a Morale Boots. but capturing them should be an even bigger one, because you get to "Interrogate" him for the safety of the people fighting beside you. If you go into a match and they start unit killing, you have the underhand then you should know what to do, If you throw your kitten into a group of fighting dogs, you should not have a kitten. or ever be giving control over anything in your life. Luckily the fighting dogs love kittens, but if you think I will not kill your puppy, & leave your trained attack dog alive, that's your bad.