quote:

Originally posted by XxTINKYWINKYxX8:
every body just **** up and play the game kill units lose units cry later.....i was reading some of the things on here and that Astalano guy annoying.. Asttalano all u got to know is that anything u say wont change a thing about wat is going on in the game.......if i play u will bitcHHHHH about how i killed ur units.....sooooo suck ittt..............ooohhh and one more thing there not gona take unit killing of upcoming endwar game Endwar2 kkkk

Lol...here is the 12 year old. You really think I'm a bad EndWar player? Not really. Sure, I'm not the best, but I fight well. Really think you could take me on?

And another thing, what REALLY happens with unit killing isn't that there are even battallions. What happens is that the weaker players get weaker and the stronger players get stronger. Which kind of defies the point of unit killing for your faction in the first place.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Astalano,

quote:

Originally posted by Astalano:
Here's a question: How immoral do you have to be to continually emp fleeing transport helicopters? How much of a chicken do you have to be to fire on INJURED men and women? If this really was war, half the commanders would be court martialled and executed.

It's incredibly sad to see high-ranking players go out of their way to kill off units. Even going to extreme lengths like wasting 3 emp's on a single transport helicopter.

wow... simply wow... I'm following this impression off the thousands of quotes I've read , war isn't nice, there is no mercy, there is no friendship on the battlefield, there is only your allies and your enemies and the bullets killing men on both sides, you wouldn't face a court-martial if your enemies were trying to retreat, in desert storm when the Iraqis retreated we didn't say, lets not follow them so we don't get court-martialled, we followed them and we killed them! In North Korea when we were being pushed back, suffering defeat after defeat and having to retreat, the North Koreans didn't say, "we will be court-martialled if we follow them, we must stop the advance, they followed the United Nations forces and continued to fight them, I don't know what your image of war is, it's not pretty butterflies flying around and men falling for no reason, here's a way to put it, do you want to die? Well too bad cause I just shot you, now you don't get to live anymore, you don't get to have the gold ol american cheeseburger, you don't get to see your family or friends again you get to go to.. wherever the hell your religion says you will go (no offense intended with the religion comment) and like I said, and I understand the purpose of this post, that the community is being killed by units being killed but I think I addressed that in my previous post, that it really shouldn't matter, that you should view it as the start of something new, not the end of something you worked hard for, and Astalano, the way I usually maintain a post is visiting it every now and then to see what people are saying, and I don't respond every two hours, I just like seeing what peoples opinions, not thrust my own upon them.

quote:

Originally posted by Famousguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Astalano:
Here's a question: How immoral do you have to be to continually emp fleeing transport helicopters? How much of a chicken do you have to be to fire on INJURED men and women? If this really was war, half the commanders would be court martialled and executed.

It's incredibly sad to see high-ranking players go out of their way to kill off units. Even going to extreme lengths like wasting 3 emp's on a single transport helicopter.

wow... simply wow... I'm following this impression off the thousands of quotes I've read , war isn't nice, there is no mercy, there is no friendship on the battlefield, there is only your allies and your enemies and the bullets killing men on both sides, you wouldn't face a court-martial if your enemies were trying to retreat, in desert storm when the Iraqis retreated we didn't say, lets not follow them so we don't get court-martialled, we followed them and we killed them! In North Korea when we were being pushed back, suffering defeat after defeat and having to retreat, the North Koreans didn't say, "we will be court-martialled if we follow them, we must stop the advance, they followed the United Nations forces and continued to fight them, I don't know what your image of war is, it's not pretty butterflies flying around and men falling for no reason, here's a way to put it, do you want to die? Well too bad cause I just shot you, now you don't get to live anymore, you don't get to have the gold ol american cheeseburger, you don't get to see your family or friends again you get to go to.. wherever the hell your religion says you will go (no offense intended with the religion comment) and like I said, and I understand the purpose of this post, that the community is being killed by units being killed but I think I addressed that in my previous post, that it really shouldn't matter, that you should view it as the start of something new, not the end of something you worked hard for, and Astalano, the way I usually maintain a post is visiting it every now and then to see what people are saying, and I don't respond every two hours, I just like seeing what peoples opinions, not thrust my own upon them.

Let me put into perspective what I'm trying to say with a scenario.

A desert town. A European squad of riflemen resting in a building is fired upon by a JSF squad of riflemen holed up in the opposite building. They return fire. Men die on both sides. Men stumble out of the doors of each building, blood flowing into the cracks in the road like wine. The EFEC squad readies grenade launchers and fires, essentially turning the opposite building into Swiss cheese. The JSF squad is no longer firing upon them, but the three remaining squadmates walk slowly outside, both hands firmly in the air. The ground seems to shake...a transport helicopter blocks out the sun. You have a choice now, as the remaining squad climbs a rope that emerges from the belly of the hovering helicopter. Shoot the squad or let them live to fight another day? You pick the second option. Years later, after the war, you meet up with the same squad. They thank you and you become friends. As a soldier you did your job, but you respected your moral code and since you couldn't take them prisoner, you let them leave in peace. Humans aren't feral animals and although war is brutal, humanity has to come through, otherwise you'll make many decisions you will regret. You kill people, but they are on the same mission. When the enemy does not wish to fight you, firing upon them when they are in no condition to return fire is an immoral move. Terrorists kill innocents. Highly-trained, disciplined, elite squads from their respective military forces do not. They accomplish their mission.

Now, if you came across a huge fleeing force, the story is different. If they're running away and you have a chance to decimate their forces do so. The difference between this situation and the previous is that the large force can fight you. They have the means and the willpower. If the retreating force surrenders, the rules of war still apply. You take them prisoner. If some start running again then you open fire purely because the sitation calls for it. They broke their aggrement to surrender. However, you do NOT shoot the surrendering force. This was my point.

What happens in EndWar is that sometimes downed units will be killed purely because of overwhelming fire. Or they were too close to another unit that was being shelled by artillery. Or an airstrike took them out before they could evacuate. Accidents happen and if you need to take measures that could kill units to win, then do so. But going out of your way to kill them is unethical because, as I've hopefully explained, they're not fighting back or being cowardly. They fought you with courage and if you have standards, you will respect them enough to let them be evacuated. Maybe you will meet again and the better men/women will win.

Unit killing just creates a lot of bad blood. I'm not saying that it's not needed, but if you try to go on this stupid argument about how war is brutal, let me remind you that war does have rules and unless you're a terrorist, you follow them. You don't shoot civilians or hostages or prisoners or people that generally can't fight back. If you're retreating, it's just another military move. Retreating does not mean you're surrendering. I means you still have the will to get to another position to fight again, that you can still fight in your current condition.

Unit killing, again, divides the community. It makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker and so negates unit killers' argument that everyone will have equally ranked units. Bull****. Unit killing is a main reason for people leaving this game to go play others. This is a proven FACT. Unit killing is a necessary part of the game because it gives you motivation to keep supporting your units and keep playing the game. FACT. However, it is also fact that the community would be much closely-bonded and friendly if they kept to a moral code. Just respect those around you. Even if everyone has higher-ranked units as a result, units will still be lost and the same level of units will be kept. So everyone, from the strong to the weak have a good fighting chance. Take into account that you can beat legendary or elite units if you have a better strategy as well.

If we just leave constant unit killing for the very few outsiders who practice it, then we can attract more people to the game. A friendlier community, we advertise EndWarboards to the noobs, they join our community and we have a great time. We'd know that we will get great games and no one gets angry because some random *** decides to suddenly kill your units for no good reason other than to be a bully to those below him.

You want an example of stupidity? I've fought against 2 JSF obsessed with unit killing. One was this hyper british douchebag who got so incredibly mad because I was winning because his strategy sucked and blaming it on my higher ranked units. "I'll kill all your units", "Stop camping in the middle of the map" (this coming from a JSF player keep in mind), "Don't be an emp-whore", blah blah blah. If that's how unit killers are and we have many unit killers in our community then we're already screwed. Then there was the other guy, who DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TRYING TO WIN. He just tried to kill units. That annoys the **** out of me.

So, have a good read, tell me what you think, I'm sure we have different opinions, but if you really think that unit killing isn't a problem to the community then you must be blind. Don't live in ignorance.

You know, if you're new, & you unit kill the guys units that have secondary's, then he's on your playing field. And You could care less because he killing recruits while your killing vets. We don't unit kill because we want to "feel superior"; We do it because if you almost beat me with those units, theres no way our weaker/newer commanders will stand a chance.

quote:

Originally posted by OnlyMeNoMas:
You know, if you're new, & you unit kill the guys units that have secondary's, then he's on your playing field. And You could care less because he killing recruits while your killing vets. We don't unit kill because we want to "feel superior"; We do it because if you almost beat me with those units, theres no way our weaker/newer commanders will stand a chance.

Problem is, it doesn't really work. Unit killers will generally kill the units of any commander, which means the noobs lose a LOT of units as well. There is a steep learning curve for the game and it takes a lot of patience to overcome it. Making that as painless as possible is what is necessary. What happens though is that the noobs quit and go back to playing other online games and the veteran commanders still have high ranked units. Why? Because they learn how to keep them safe. We know the strategies to protecting our units and conquering the battlefield. Giving noobs higher ranked units allows them an easier time. They don't feel so frustrated by unit killers, so they think more deeply about their strategies. So we get better players, better games, etc. Sure, we veterans often have our recruit units too, but generally, we have a nice stash of higher ranked units. Look at any of the top players and tell me that they don't have a lot of highly ranked units. They have plenty. What happens is the higher ranked players will protect their units and the noobs will lose them all since they don't know how to defend them. So you get a huge gap between the lower ranked players and the higher ranked players. In the end, there is no "unit balance" that you're apparently striving for. It just doesn't happen.

... no one on this forum kills a new commanders units, so what do you hope to accomplish? I kill high ranking units without mercy, do I kill the guy with a 10 gamerscore? No. So really, who are you preaching to? The unit killers who do not read the forums?

quote:

Originally posted by Angry_Toaster:
... no one on this forum kills a new commanders units, so what do you hope to accomplish? I kill high ranking units without mercy, do I kill the guy with a 10 gamerscore? No. So really, who are you preaching to? The unit killers who do not read the forums?

At least we could spread a message. Add something to the coversation or please don't post. And seriously, do you remember EVERYONE who is a high rank? And I'm wrong in thinking that some of the people on EndWarboards posting and saying that they will kill ANYONE'S units are not going to differentiate between a noob and a veteran?

quote:

Originally posted by Astalano:
At least we could spread a message. Add something to the coversation or please don't post.

You seem to be ignoring the conversation anyway, you say unit killing is the main reason why this game isn't doing well. I provided 7 which you have not responded to and you just continue to compare endwar to real life, which makes you sound incredibly dumb.

quote:

Originally posted by Astalano:
And seriously, do you remember EVERYONE who is a high rank?

WTF does that have to do with anything? If I get blossed, vicerated, or if the tanks have AA guns, it dies. I don't need to know if a person is high rank to see their unit upgrades.

quote:

Originally posted by Astalano:
And I'm wrong in thinking that some of the people on EndWarboards posting and saying that they will kill ANYONE'S units are not going to differentiate between a noob and a veteran?

How many people come to these boards again? Really I haven't seen a post like that in months.

quote:

Originally posted by Angry_Toaster:

quote:

Originally posted by Astalano:
Wow, your post is made of SO MUCH FAIL it's unthinkable. Whiny? I just want the community to calm down and give the people in the community who are absolutely sick of unit killers a break. I love the concept in the game, it keeps things fresh, but the way we're going, we won't have a community left at all. And you will have no one to blame but yourself. Whiny? You're the one who's the ****ing whiner.

I hea there's a doctor down the road who can help YOU out.

Look Astalano the game isn't dying because of unit killers. Its dying because of a number of things

1) A HUGE learning curve. Really this game has the biggest learning curve I've every seen. You have to know what your doing to win with recruits against a veteran battalion, which new comers won't know what to do against. This pushes them out because they think they lost because of a poorly balanced game, they didn't start the game on even ground like most RTS's do. Even if the opponent was just more skilled than them they will still think it was all in the units.

2) Supports. This is actually a major cause for the wait times too, but anyway when you first start out you think air support is the best thing in the game. And when your forced to play on maps where you do not have it but the enemy does you think its unbalanced, again your not starting on even ground. This makes your matches incredibly tough since you do not have electronic warfare and playing without any supports sucks.

3) An unexplained Theater of War. This effects the main drive for this game and since many people do not check the forums they have no idea how the **** it works, I still don't fully understand it and I would be surprised if even Ubisoft does. Such as in War 4 when the JSF lost the siege of Moscow but still won it, that ****ed MANY Russians and Euros off. Now if they actually explained it when you first logged on Theater of War or even had a "Theater of War Rules" page in the game perhaps people would have stayed.

4) The glitches. Seriously this is one **** up game, dashboarding, losing units for no reason, glitches deep strikes, and the infinite CP glitch... Just to name a few, the average player won't be able to deal with these things.

Then Ubisoft had the balls to keep us in the dark when they were "fixing" these things. Sure you might be able to check online and catch what the community developer was saying, which was never very much, but again not many people check online for these things. So when the patch finally came out, they had not idea what the hell it fixed.

Ubisoft made a "Message of the Day" board in the games menus but the only thing I've seen it used for, was for advertising their outrageously overpriced downloadable content.

5) Poor marketing. This came out around the time Dead Space, Gears of War 2, and Call of Duty World at War came out. That cut sales right in half, then they barely had commercials for it so no one ever heard about it, and finally many people thought it was a FPS shooter. Really I'm surprised it had a large a community as it did!

6) The servers... How many times has this games servers gone down? Three or four times now? The people who do not check the forums would probably quit the game after the second time.

7) Ubisoft pull support from the game. What guts, you let the glitches run ramped for months, keep us in the dark the entire time, let the servers go down for days, give us hope that your fixing the glitches... then half fix them and pull support. What a big "F*** You!" to the people who bought this. This probably cause more people to quit than anything.

The only other company who treats their customers like this is EA with the Command and Conquer series for Xbox. Never had a patch for the game, even though it was grossly imbalanced and the servers were offline every other day.
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Really these are the things killing the game, not the "zomg my regular unit died!!!!!!!!!! Ima quit now!"

I've been noticing the community dwindle for a while now, just because you were blind enough to not see it until now doesn't mean it wasn't happening or that unit killing is the cause. And I don't know about you, but I'm going to enjoy the game well it still has some blood left in it and there is nothing more enjoyable than seeing those veteran units disappearing from your battalion.

1) True.

2) This is overcome if you get into the game. If you know what you're doing, even a slightly experienced commander can beat a noob spamming his supports.

3) This isn't really an issue for me.

4) True, but there aren't that many anymore.

5) Yeah, but we're talking about the people who tried to get into the game, not those who never had an interest.

6) Not really. They're not down for THAT long.

7) Well, after the major patches, the game seems to run smooth enough. Not an issue for me.

There are a lot of reasons, but unit killing is one of the top 3. A lot of people dislike having their units killed and just want to play and have fun. Couldn't you just agree with a commander before the match started to have a unit killing match? Up the stakes, if that's what you really want. But people get fed up not being able to beat the veteran with their recruits and regulars and hardly any upgrades because they can't win against other more experienced commanders, since the number of new players dwindles every day and their units can't make up for their lack of strategy. You have to ease people into the game slowly, not kill off their units and make it as hard as possible from the get-go.

I learn very fast not to do something if my units get killed doing it.