quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
You`re right when you say that when people want to pirate the game they will but DRM is there to make it as difficult as possible for pirates to make copies of our games. A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are. Not very, I imagine.

Console piracy is something else entirely and I`m sure we`ll see more steps in future to try to combat that.

Thanks for your answer UbiRazz.
I take it that this is an official statement, isn't it?

Does "no DRM" also mean that an online activation is not necessary?

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
You`re right when you say that when people want to pirate the game they will but DRM is there to make it as difficult as possible for pirates to make copies of our games. A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are. Not very, I imagine.

Console piracy is something else entirely and I`m sure we`ll see more steps in future to try to combat that.

So is that confirmation that PoP is totally naked DRM wise? No offence but I find that hard to believe going on ubi's track record regarding "PC piracy" strategies. It must use something?

If it is totally free of it or at least the steam version is then i'll strongly reconsider preordering it.

I could go on about piracy/antipiracy flaws with it all etc but I won't and i'll spare the pages of analysis.

The thing is the main flaw with ubisoft regarding piracy is they want 100% of the pie. Which isn't going to happen for anyone with any product, its a fact of life and that being said punishing the honest consumers with lack of bonuses, later release dates (and on some titles DRM) is no way to convert consumers.

Same goes for "extorting" the living daylights out of them (with regards to Davenport Lyons) all it takes is stuff what happened to atari and the old people they tried to sue through DL for "downloading" a game and it ended up all over the media. What sort of company image does that build? Especially now that DL are associated (and made the same mistake) over certain types of adult material which is pretty sickening.

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are. Not very, I imagine.

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are.

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
PoP PC has no DRM

Wait, the game seriously has no DRM? That would certainly be a (positive) surprise. Is this the case for all of the PC versions of the game?

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
You`re right when you say that when people want to pirate the game they will but DRM is there to make it as difficult as possible for pirates to make copies of our games.

There's no question that piracy is a problem, but the question is how effective DRM is at preventing it. From what we've seen, it's not effective at all (look at what happened to Spore). If anything, the extra resources Ubisoft has to invest to use DRM (which includes technical support for people that can't install their game) possibly outweigh the profit gained from people buying the game instead of pirating it (if those even exist, since games are often pirated before they're even released).

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are.

*raises eyebrow*

Surely there must be some kind of protection...
The one where it checks for the disk in drive seems the most sensible for the customers themselves.
I hope it's hard for pirates in the meantime.
Plus people who pirate are either underage or scum. You wouldn't want those kinds of "gamers" on your "fanbase" anyway...

I did not read the hole topic but I head an idea when I was reading one of the post. I remember an really old game had this ones. And the first POP.(really the first of all) 2nd level they told you to go to page For EX.Page 12 line 3 word 5 and then take that word first (or other) letter.. Really it is the best anty piracy. No problem for the People who by the game(because they have the Manuel) and clearly you don't have the same words on the same page same line in the electric Manuel.(so the People who DL the game and installed it cant use that.) So it own. If People DL it they cant play it. No one (I hope ) is going to take the time to write down the HOLE Manuel into the PC just to give it as an illegal Dl. And maybe put some more special things in. For better defense. Like some special signs only this PC have and only some printers can print.

dude ... what makes u think that this is even a slightly good protection system ??? think this through: if I'm the one who's pirating the game, and I upload the copy of the game on the net (warez, torrents, etc.), why in the world won't I take 10-15 minutes to scan the whole manual and also include it in the pack ???

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are.

That is indeed incredibly incredibly awesome!

Is there a disc-check at minimum, and does it use SecuROM for it? Not that I personally care much about disc checks (ala Fallout 3's SecuROM implementation) and only dislike activation/limit based DRM, but SecuROM is nearly viewed as a disease among many gamers these days.

Regardless of the above answer, all of the best of luck to Ubisoft on this one!!! Not sure how one would quantify it's successfulness since this type of game isn't typically as high on the wish list of PC (note it will be on my list) gamers to begin with compared to something like Far Cry 2 IMO, and pirates will continue to pirate (ISPs should be more involved here), but I don't think it will hurt sales at all. It will bring in gamers that aren't happy with the limits/restrictions/external-dependencies placed on them with activation based DRM on their collection of games.

quote:

Originally posted by Kakolookiyam:
dude ... what makes u think that this is even a slightly good protection system ??? think this through: if I'm the one who's pirating the game, and I upload the copy of the game on the net (warez, torrents, etc.), why in the world won't I take 10-15 minutes to scan the whole manual and also include it in the pack ???

XD!!
Ah yes sorry. Thing is I was a bit far back in technology there. I was kind of thinking as they must have been when they made POP 1. But you could do the same with some special signs. OR just hunt down these pages like pirate bay and so.

yeah well frankly just a company like Ubisoft cannot take down a torrent site AT ALL !!! there are laws, regulations, they have tons of disclaimers, they are not responsible for what the users upload or share through their site, etc. So when u wanna take down a torrent site, u'll be confronted by some law problems, etc. plus why do that ??? I mean

1) you'd have to take down ALL of them at once (ok so I won't download POP from site #1 cause Ubisoft somehow managed to close it... hell I'll take it from site #2 )

2) even if by some cosmic force, u manage to close ALL OF THEM down, they'll just rise up again, over and over and over ...

PERIOD: no matter what brilliant idea someone might think he has or how well he thinks he can manipulate technology so that he restricts a 1 : 1 user-to-product factor, as long as Mike has it and Mike wants to share it with me, I'll have it too ... so IT IS IMPOSSIBLE GENTLEMEN TO STOP PIRACY !!! NOT NOW, NOT IN 2050

I can't see what it soo hard for every single CD having its own Unique key that also needs online activation everytime the program is run. (this could prevent keygen from being used)

DRM can be a good thing, problem is when companies limit users to how many times a game can be installed.

if they have a database to check the number of installations made on a perticular key, then surely creating a database checking if a key is entered on multiple PCs is possible with a ban on multiple key access.

again your method doesn't work because:

1) if the system would SOMEHOW be perfect, it would ban me (the legal user) for installing the game multiple times on my own computer

2) I (the pirate user) can still make a 1:1 RAW copy of the disc, distribute it along with my personal key, thus everyone will be able to register online (by using my key with my disc at the same time, not other combinations). Again, if the online staff, responsible for activation sees a single key with multiple activations and tries to ban it, it might ban an innocent, legal user

Did anyone here mention how devs blame piracy for everything these days?
If the game sucks to begin with, they blame piracy.
If they don't have money or are just lazy to make a decent PC port...they blame piracy.
All in all, internet piracy doesn't hurt the sales all that much, because pirates are a minority of broke failures, and if you make a good game in the first place most of them would be willing to fork out their dole money on it.

Plus take comfort that most game downloads online are loaded with trojans and viruses, kekeke.

quote:

Originally posted by FireEmpress:
Did anyone here mention how devs blame piracy for everything these days?
If the game sucks to begin with, they blame piracy.
If they don't have money or are just lazy to make a decent PC port...they blame piracy.
All in all, internet piracy doesn't hurt the sales all that much, because pirates are a minority of broke failures, and if you make a good game in the first place most of them would be willing to fork out their dole money on it.

Plus take comfort that most game downloads online are loaded with trojans and viruses, kekeke.

Well this time we've got a good game with no DRM so there really is no reason to pirate it, right? We should expect good sales because there's no reason to not buy a copy

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Well this time we've got a good game with no DRM so there really is no reason to pirate it, right? We should expect good sales because there's no reason to not buy a copy

I really do hope for good sales on this one too

quote:

Originally posted by Kakolookiyam:
1) if the system would SOMEHOW be perfect, it would ban me (the legal user) for installing the game multiple times on my own computer

Not neceserally, you could make a limit of say intall on 5 machines (with gettin slot back when uninstallin, not sure how itll work if you format without unstall tho, need to think that through)

quote:

Originally posted by Kakolookiyam:
2) I (the pirate user) can still make a 1:1 RAW copy of the disc, distribute it along with my personal key, thus everyone will be able to register online (by using my key with my disc at the same time, not other combinations). Again, if the online staff, responsible for activation sees a single key with multiple activations and tries to ban it, it might ban an innocent, legal user

but by doing that the one with the original disk will be banned (its legal copy but also his fault for distributing it in the first place)


at the end of the day its just an idea to try reduce pirace without restricting the legal user

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Well this time we've got a good game with no DRM so there really is no reason to pirate it, right? We should expect good sales because there's no reason to not buy a copy

Ubisoft should send an official press release to the gaming media that they're not using DRM for the game and explain the reasoning behind that decision. Games and DRM are a much debated topic at the moment so it would essentially be free advertising. With all the DRM hate out there you'll automatically score bonus points with the game community.

That said, could you give us some more details? A few questions:
- Does the game still have a more traditional copy protection like a CD key check?
- Does the DVD need to be in the drive to start (no DRM would mean it doesn't need the DVD to run after a full install)?
- What information, if any, is being transmitted over the Internet while running the game?
- The Ubisoft Digital Store still displays the warning that the game uses DRM, is that correct?

i'm hoping this gets confirmed

quote:

Originally posted by Daroth_343:

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Well this time we've got a good game with no DRM so there really is no reason to pirate it, right? We should expect good sales because there's no reason to not buy a copy

Ubisoft should send an official press release to the gaming media that they're not using DRM for the game and explain the reasoning behind that decision. Games and DRM are a much debated topic at the moment so it would essentially be free advertising. With all the DRM hate out there you'll automatically score bonus points with the game community.
[...]

Agreed.
I kinda like info like this being mentioned first in forums because there is a little bit of word-of-mouth awareness first -and later submitted to news sites- but if Ubi thought trumpeting the fact with a press release would come across as too showy or holier-than-thou then it should have been slipped into some of the many QAs & interviews recently.

It's a bit optimistic to keep the fact that it's "DRM/Copy-Protection free" quiet and then expect any effect, by default everyone assumes that it's using a DRM scheme like that of your other games or those that have been heavily publicised lately -even covered in mainstream media-, as I'm sure you're well aware of.
Goodwill & potential sales with real game buyers is what you'd be gaining IMO, maybe there are some who will switch from pirate to legit customer but from what I've seen the usual suspects will carry on as they always have done whether the game is "protected" or not.


[ed]Edited some you_s to say Ubi instead since that was who I was meant to be referring to in some of those comments, not just the OP.[/ed]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Khaser,

quote:

Originally posted by Khaser:
It's a bit optimistic to keep the fact that it's "DRM/Copy-Protection free" quiet and then expect any effect, by default everyone assumes that it's using a DRM scheme like that of your other games or those that have been heavily publicised lately -even covered in mainstream media-, as I'm sure you're well aware of.

Since they're not making a big deal out of it, I guess it could simply be a matter of Ubisoft acknowledging that DRM, at least in its current form, simply doesn't work. Since it doesn't matter whether they use it or not, they might as well not invest time and money into it. Their technical support staff will no doubt be thankful for that as well. The only question that remains is whether or not Ubisoft actually put some effort into the PC conversion and it's not going to be another broken game like BG&E, Warrior Within or Raving Rabbids. I guess we'll found out soon enough.

quote:

Originally posted by UbiRazz: A lot of people complain that DRM is what forces people to pirate games but as PoP PC has no DRM we`ll see how truthful people actually are. Not very, I imagine.

You claim the customers aren't being truthful when you yourself aren't being completely honest.

http://digitalstore.ubi.com/7158/product/Buy-Prince-of-...(Pre-Order)-Download

quote:

NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some disc and virtual drives.

I mean "technology intended to prevent copying" pretty much defines DRM.

So here is what happens. Basically pirates continue to do what pirates do and eventually companies get tired of throwing money away into something they know is going to get stolen almost consequence free by the consumer. Less and less PC games get made the community starts complaining to the company how there is no PC port and will most likely end with the only games worth buying will be on consoles. And due to general ignorance about how to do illegal things with your Xbox and PS3 the money will be in console gaming. So the companies will go where they are being paid. And I'm well aware that my opinion is one of many that does not matter but from where I stand I think that if a company wants to continue in PC gaming they would have to lower their prices so low that you fool the consumer into thinking that they cheated the company for getting something for that price. People aren't honest and Ubisoft knows that. I applaud them for turning out a game DRM free if they have. Call me a cynic, a realist, or just the Prince but I feel they will be let down again by the general nature of people. Which is get away with as much as you can without getting caught. Like Ubisoft, I hope that I am proven wrong about this theory.