Hi all,

Just a random thought really. I read a book and it spoke about "Plan 19". Plan 19 in this context was the WW1 German High Seas Fleet's "Death Ride" vs the Grand Fleet of Britan. Historically the order to sail triggered mutiny and the fall of Imperial Germany.

Afterwards, when the HSF sailed into internment at Scapa Flow, it was discovered that they could never have gone to combat anyway due to a shortage of lubricating oil.....

Got me wondering. When was the latest after Jutland when the High Seas Fleet could have gone into combat against the Grand Fleet with a realastic chance of doing damage?

Could they have sailed when the German Army made their big pushes in 1917? Could the Navy have sailed when Unrestricted Submarine Warfare was declared in Febuary 1917 to have a go against the Grand Fleet in conjunction with the submarines?

Just wondering really. Idle curosity run amock after reading books!!

Thanks. David.

I had never heard before of the lubricating oil shortage. It seems oil has been a perpetual shortage of the German military since the early 20th century.

I think one reason why the German surface navy has never done well against the Royal Navy is for lack of derring do. The Germans have been timid with their warships whilst the British have always had a pluck that has seen them challenge when the odds were against them and even succeed on such occasions. Admiral Nelson seems to embody this virtue and the Germans have never quite seemed to have come up with their own Nelson, not to say they haven't had any heroes but they've just never been able to command their fleets to Nelsonian standards.

Now the U-boat men were a different sort. They exhibited a higher standard of aggression and innovation. It seems that many of the best went into the U-boats, to the detriment of the surface fleet. As well, Germany has always been hemmed in by geographical factors whilst Britain sits astride the sealanes. I think this factor also plays a part in the offensive versus defensive mindset of the two fleets. The Germans always have to make a breakthrough in order to deploy, whereas the Brits have ready access to the sealanes.

It's all very interesting, isn't it?

quote:

Got me wondering. When was the latest after Jutland when the High Seas Fleet could have gone into combat against the Grand Fleet with a realistic chance of doing damage?

They could have gone back out at any time, assuming they had oil and such. The blockade of Germany didn't begin to really tell until after mid 1917, so it was late in the war I guess before they started losing their capacity to send the surface fleet out.
The Germans were still a threat and Britain still had to man the North Sea with plenty of ships. Jutland was a tactical victory for Germany, but in failing to break out, a strategic loss is incurred. After the battle, and into WW2, Germany did not have the political will to risk its line ships against Britain's. What von Hipper thought could be gained by going off and getting sunk in the channel is anyones guess, it would have served no purpose.