a plane should be flown to north korean to neutralize their nuke factory...

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
If you think that North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Il, knows what freedom is, then ask him why he spends so much money on weapons and military programs than feed his own people. All of the South Koreans I have ever talked to enjoy the lifestyle they have and while many think that unification is a good thing, they do not want to live in a Communist version of Korea under Kim. They want a place like they have now. Maybe then could we leave Korea which we have agreed to defend if needed.

Why he spends money on weapons instead of food?
You won't like the answer.

Because the threat of invasion to his nation by the U.S. is larger than the the threat to his nation from starvation.

60 years ago when my nation was faced with a similar threat we too sacrificed food for weapons.

Should your own great nation ever face a similar threat you too will do the same.

I'm sure there is no small element in truth in what you say about the wishes of the South Koreans to live under communism, but then they don't want to live under the threat of war either. As long as you are there swearing to defend them, they will never be able to make that choice. Their freedom has been denied.

I don't think all of South Korea wants you out, any more than all of Taiwan wants to reunify with China, but lots of them do. Lots. In Taiwan it's an even split, I don't know how it breaks down in Korea, but there seems to be a pretty large popular movement in that direction.
Your army stands between them and the re-unification of their families.
My sympathies lie with the occupied nation.

As for friendly fire, I'm in total agreement with you that it is a factor of war, however since your own military is substantially more prone to it than all the others, your complacency about it makes me uncomfortable. Not as uncomfortable as my troops however who tend to be on the receiving end.

quote:

Originally posted by orbit22679:
Don't argue with baff6. Clearly he knows everything and has experienced it all, from foreign policy, to what it's like to be an American, live in the U.S. and serve in its armed forces. His vast, unrivaled knowledge makes him far superior to any who frequent this board, especially Americans, who his self worth far exceeds. After all, Americans really haven't done anything for this world, past or present. They haven't invented anything worthwhile or at all useful. They have never offered up their sons to fight and die in foreign wars that really had nothing to do with the U.S., and don't provide more international and humanitarian aid than any other country on the planet.

Again, he KNOWS EVERYTHING. Don't argue with him.

</sarcasm> (In case it wasn't obvious).

His elitist attitude is typical of the left. They think they are better than you and smarter than you, especially if you are of a conservative mindset. I get some elitism from reading Danger's posts, but nothing like what flows from baff6's posts. But that's ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it means you have to degrade people and arrogantly try to establish yourself as part of an elite social class to get your point across. Afterall, they ARE better than us "simple" people, right?

Oh yes, because if you haven't served in the U.S. military you can't have a clue about politics, world affairs and foreigners.

Sorry if you don't like my take on elite social class. The American military is less than my idea of it.

What goes around comes around.
If you are condescending towards foreigners and civilians, you will receive the exact same sentiments towards yourselves from me.

I'm tired of the pathetic validation of peoples opinions that if you weren't a soldier in the U.S. army you don't know about anything.

The world hates me because I'm American. Do shut up.

If you want to be treated as equals, you must first start by treating all others as equals. If you want people to recognise the good you do, you must start be recognising the good others have done.
Mutual respect is on offer. Nothing less. There is no sign of any mutual respect going on in this forum.


I'm not here to denigrate or belittle the great achievements of your nation. But if you overplay them, or somehow feel that no other nations have ever contributed more, that is a conceit that I will point out to you.

America hasn't done more for the world than anyone else. Get over yourselves already. America predominantly acts in it's own intrests just like every other nation. You can fool yourself that you do it all for everyone elses benefit, but no one else is buying it.

quote:

Originally posted by crtChunk72:
an entry from Joe Scarborough's blog: This is to all our left-leaning friends out there who hate Dubya...

quote:

But regardless of how much you hate George Bush, I must warn you again that your anger over Katrina, WMD?s, Joe Wilson, NSA wiretaps, yellowcake uranium, Iraq, Sam Alito and the 2000 Florida recount does not change the fact that Iran has been the epicenter of international terrorism since 1979. Theirs is a brutal theocracy that detests Western freedoms, disdains women?s rights, punishes free speech, hates our allies and sees America as their mortal enemy.

That has nothing to do with George Bush. They hated America long before Dubya gave up the strong stuff. They took our hostages when Jimmy Carter was president. They started their nuclear program when Bill Clinton was president. They will keep trying to destroy the Great Satan when Hillary Clinton is president.

Tyrants running Venezuela and Iran may hate George W. Bush as much as you do. But they hate you just as much. It?s one time when the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

Don?t give in to hate.

EDIT: I bring this up not only for our left-leaning friends here in the States, but also for Chirac of France, who once again betrays US diplomatic efforts when dealing in the Middle East.

The next time France gets overrun by an invading army, I say we leave it alone.

The last two times France got overrun by an invading Army, you did leave it alone.

How about you stop congratulating yourselves for things you didn't do. You weren't there.
You showed up 5 years later on your way to Germany as a significant but minor part of a combined force of millions. Liberating France was never your goal, capturing Berlin was. France was just the path of least resistance.

Chirac hasn't betrayed America. You have conflicting goals in the Middle East. France has it's own Middle Eastern hegemeony to protect, it has no desire to surrender it to America or anyone else.

In 1955 America Stiffed France and Britain in the Middle East.
Here we go again with the American Supremacy, the American way is best.

What America wants, isn't what's best for the world, it's whats best for America.
Same for every country including France. You don't respect their wishes, why should they respect yours.

The french people are actively deployed in Afghanistan at personal risk to it's troops and at national risk of terrorist reprisal in order to defend it's American Allies.
And yet you disrespect them.
They should just pull out. Quit Nato and leave your overstretched military to it.

The way you talk is quite simply shameful. France doesn't forget it's allies. They turned up in your hour of need, even when you have never turned up in theirs. Don't expect them to do any less for their Middle Eastern allies. That would be a mistake on your part. Not theirs.

I am late coming into this converstaion so forgive any redundancy...

My biggest issue with France is that, these days, it would rather partner with tyranical regimes who are only interested in instability and mayhem, rather than partner with the West, who are trying to calm things down.

To Paraphrase:

"The friend of my enemy is not my friend"

This is kinda interesting, especially to America haters... And some French who have short memories, no sense of history whatsoever and weapons that has a distressing propensity for ending up on the ground...



O
n June 6, 1944 (known as D-Day), the western Allies launched the single largest amphibious invasion force in world history, landing almost 150,000 soldiers under the command of U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower on the beaches of Normandy, France. By the end of the month, more than 850,000 American, British, and Canadian troops had come ashore to embark upon what Eisenhower called the “Great Crusade, ” the “destruction of the German war machine, the elimination of Nazi tyranny over the oppressed peoples of Europe, and security for ourselves in a free world.”



Scroll down the list below and choose a liberating division.



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On June 22, 1944, Soviet forces opened a major offensive that crushed the German forces defending the center of the eastern front in western Belorussia, sweeping the line of the front into central Poland by early August.

As Allied and Soviet troops moved across Europe in a series of offensives against Nazi Germany, they encountered concentration camps, mass graves, and numerous other sites of Nazi crimes. Soviet forces were the first to overrun a major Nazi concentration camp, Lublin/Majdanek, near Lublin, Poland, in July 1944. On January 27, 1945, Soviet troops liberated the Auschwitz concentration camp complex, where they discovered some 7,000 prisoners, including young children, who had not been evacuated by the SS. American soldiers, too, witnessed evidence of the Holocaust and Nazi atrocities as they marched into the interior of Germany, liberating the major concentration camps such as Buchenwald, Dachau, and Mauthausen as well as hundreds of subcamps, including Ohrdruf (a subcamp of Buchenwald). Though the liberation of Nazi camps was not a primary objective of the Allied military campaign, U.S, British, Canadian, and Soviet troops freed prisoners from their SS guards, provided them with food and badly needed medical support, and collected evidence for war crimes trials

On May 8, 1945, less than one year after D-Day, Nazi Germany's unconditional surrender became official, and the world could celebrate the liberation of Europe from Nazi rule.

In 2004, with the 60th anniversary of D-Day, the nation honored veterans of World War II with a memorial on the national mall. 2005 marked the 60th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany and the end of World War II. Explore the links on this page to learn about the liberators' experiences as Allied troops moved across Europe during the war.

Leep Out:

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
Why he spends money on weapons instead of food?
You won't like the answer.

Because the threat of invasion to his nation by the U.S. is larger than the the threat to his nation from starvation.

That's arrant nonsense. His nation is only threatened in his mind and in the press releases his government puts out. Neither the US nor the ROK has made any belligerent moves, but has responded to continued belligerence on the part of the DPRK.

The people in the North are kept ignorant and starving as their leader engages in political brinkmanship. He continually threatens the South and others, and is effectively engaging in a rather large blackmail campaign. There is no threat to the North, but a serious threat from the North.

And the reason he keeps them ignorant is so they don't know they are starving.. if they ever find that out they will really be mad...

Leep out:

Im so glad to see these responses to the initial statement made by this person. I looked at his comments and thought to myself I hope this isnt what the majority of people playing this game think like. Glad to see intelligent life is still out there. Long Live Che!!!

quote:

Originally posted by cobbytown:
Long Live Che!!!

Are you referring to a dead murderer and hope that he'll live? That's healthy...

I dont understand why the US keeps turning its back on Israel when Israel needs the support more than ever to fight back,Israel is surrounded by enemies that should have been neutralized a long time ago and all the UN does is complain about some insignificant gripes by the terrorist supporters!Israel and the US stand strong together...

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
The last two times France got overrun by an invading Army, you did leave it alone.

How about you stop congratulating yourselves for things you didn't do. You weren't there.
You showed up 5 years later on your way to Germany as a significant but minor part of a combined force of millions. Liberating France was never your goal, capturing Berlin was. France was just the path of least resistance.

I really do get tired of this "you did a good thing, but you did it for selfish reasons, so it doesn't count!!" argument. Yes, we liberated France as a stepping stone on the way to Berlin, but the fact [u]remains[/u] that we did liberate it. If XYZ Corporation suddenly came out with a 10$ cure for cancer, would you really say "PFFT, they only produced it for profit, so I'm not gonna use it!!".

While many of America's actions have indeed been guided by self-interest, the fact remains that our actions have had a great deal of positive effects, and to simply dismiss them because of their "selfish" motivations is ignorant.

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
Chirac hasn't betrayed America. You have conflicting goals in the Middle East. France has it's own Middle Eastern hegemeony to protect, it has no desire to surrender it to America or anyone else.

Really? Funny, because I thought that:

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
The french people are actively deployed in Afghanistan at personal risk to it's troops and at national risk of terrorist reprisal in order to defend it's American Allies.

So, I'm confused, is France just being another self-interested nation, or is it fighting in Afghanistan "in order to defend its American Allies"? Or is it both, because I know how much you condemn selfish actions that have positive consequences.

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
In 1955 America Stiffed France and Britain in the Middle East.
Here we go again with the American Supremacy, the American way is best.

Kinda like France and Britain were trying to stiff Egypt? Oh but I forget, condemnation is only appropriate for US actions, my bad.

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
They should just pull out. Quit Nato and leave your overstretched military to it.

Umm, they did, in 1966. They are no longer part of NATO's joint military command.

quote:

Originally posted by baff6:
The way you talk is quite simply shameful. France doesn't forget it's allies. They turned up in your hour of need, even when you have never turned up in theirs. Don't expect them to do any less for their Middle Eastern allies. That would be a mistake on your part. Not theirs.

No, the mistake is in your comparisson. You say they "turned up in our hour of need, even when (we) have never turned up in theirs". The problem with that comparisson is in the scale of the respective conflicts. The War on Terror has claimed what, almost 4000 allied casualties, most of them American. Compare that to the losses of WWII, which numbered in the millions.

You praise France for "jumping in" a conflict against poorly armed, relatively ill-trained insurgents, and yet you condemn America for not rushing in to fight the combat-hardened, well-disciplined, well-equiped, dug-in and fortified Nazi's? France comes in on the GWOT and faces the loss of a few troops, America jumps in to WWII and faces the loss of millions; big difference.

And in any case, I thought France was "protecting its hegemony" in the area, but I guess, since they're not America, "protecting a hegemony" is equivalent to "helping your allies in a honorable and selfless manner"...

quote:

Originally posted by MDS_Geist:

quote:

Originally posted by cobbytown:
Long Live Che!!!

Are you referring to a dead murderer and hope that he'll live? That's healthy...

Maybe he's referring to Che's current incarnation, as a capitalist icon selling t-shirts, flags, and posters, all for wonderful profit!!