quote:

Originally posted by ROT_Danger:
As for the Muslim-on-Muslim hate, and whether or not they hate MTV or McDonald's, I could give a EDIT (rhymes with schmuck). I'm saying that a good portion of the reason they hate us is due to their family members being killed.

This is how you missed my point. I can keep citing violence in the Muslim world, but you appear to believe that "violence in the Muslim world is our fault".

My point in citing these violent stories (I can surely include more, if you're interested) is that these people are just inherently violent, and we are only an excuse. "They're made because we're killing their family members"... yea, and they're mad because this girl was the graduate that made her family proud. She didn't kill anyone, she simply belonged to a lower-class family and graduated school. And was a female. So, they "did bad things" to her.

They're inherently evil, and will use whatever they want to further their twisted agenda.


EDIT: more... here's what a mother has to say about her son being a suicide bomber...

quote:

"He (my son) would always dream of Shahada, it was his first and last goal in life. I told him, 'Dear, we all want to be shahids.' He said, 'In this entire world, I can't think of anyone to marry. I want to marry the Dark Eyed [Virgins or Maidens of Paradise].' I said if these are his thoughts, I wish him Shahada (martyrdom)."

Sorry, no mention of "westerners killing my family members"... just a hope and a dream of a psycho...

quote:

They're inherently evil, and will use whatever they want to further their twisted agenda.

I know plenty of Muslims who would be disappointed in you as an educated person for saying such a thing.

Yes, there's violence in the Muslim world, but there's violence in the Christian world too!

People bash gays in America, claiming that the Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Our leaders preach the same ridiculous nonsense.

My point is not that violence in the Muslim world is our fault. My point is that it is quite absurd to not realize that our presence in the region has a bit to do with Muslim anger and violence.

If a more powerful Muslim nation had occupied part of the United States and was waging war against one of our political parties, there would be uprisings across our country as well.

Understandably so.

quote:

Originally posted by ROT_Danger:
I know plenty of Muslims who would be disappointed in you as an educated person for saying such a thing.

My use of "they're" must be confusing. I'm specifically referring to militant Muslims who believe school girls should be beheaded and children are great for suicide bombers because it gets their message across. I'm not referring to (formerly) Cat Stevens, or Muhammed Ali (at least, I don't think I am). And, to borrow a phrase from SOD, I could care less what the militant Muslims think of what I'm saying.

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People bash gays in America, claiming that the Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Our leaders preach the same ridiculous nonsense.

Ahh, yes, but you see, here is where the difference is. Our society has said it's bad, and we condemn individuals who do it (through violence). If I beat up someone just because of their sexual preference, I will serve extra jail time (as opposed to beating someone up just because I felt like it). My society will not turn a blind eye. I believe their society does just that. (Now, there, I *am* referring to the larger Muslim world).

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My point is not that violence in the Muslim world is our fault. My point is that it is quite absurd to not realize that our presence in the region has a bit to do with Muslim anger and violence.

Still feels more like a convenient excuse.

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If a more powerful Muslim nation had occupied part of the United States and was waging war against one of our political parties, there would be uprisings across our country as well.

Missing the point entirely. Regardless of where our military is stationed, Muslim extremists view nudity as a gateway to Satan... and America has plenty of it. Muslim extremists view women getting an education as an abomination... and America has plenty of it. Quite simply, Muslim extremists hate us, and this is regardless of where our military is stationed.

We didn't enter Saudi Arabia until the Royal Family asked us to stop Saddam in the early 90's. We didn't enter Iraq until Saddam (and the French) blew their noses on the Security Council mandates in early 2000's. Iranian militants took our embassy and kidnapped Americans in the late 1970's. Militant Muslims threw the body of an American in a wheelchair off a Cruise Ship well before we had a military presence in the Middle East.

I think the military is just a convenient excuse.

I appreciate your opinion, and especially the fashion in which you reply. However, I believe that the military was involved in the mid-east much before the 1970's.

The key point is "extremist" Muslims. My point was not to disagree that they hate us, it was to say that we need to do something to win the hearts and minds of the Muslims that don't hate us. For they are the people that can (and should) rise up against the extremists.

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Originally posted by SODsniper:

quote:

Originally posted by ROT_Danger:
Since when do you care what the Pope says?

I really don't...

But I DO care when the moronic facist muslim types use it as just another excuse to burn, pillage and destroy..

Should I get into examples of how conservitive Vhristians reacted after the screening of the movie "Kingdom of Heaven?"

Anyway, my point is, don't bring religion into this. A view of a select group of individuals who choose to twist the teachings of an otherwise tolerant religion (pleanty of historical examples) cannot be taken as a representation of the religion in general.

So when you say "get a grip Islam," I advise you to hold your tougue before uttering such non-sense.

Yes, by all means go into how Conservative Christians reacted to whatever movie that was.

As a conservative Christian myself I barely noticed the movie, none of the other conservative Christians I know cared either. It wouldn't matter much to me whether the pope, the devil, Saddam Hussein, and Orlando bloom had an incestuous love triangle trapezoid in the movie (ok, I'm stealing from, and embellishing on Southpark, so what?), I still wouldn't start a riot or blow myself up over it and I doubt those "Conservative" Christians who screened the movie however much they whined or complained hurt anyone or caused a cent of property damage after watching it. Even if we did most other conservative Christians would have those that did partake in such activities put in jail. The same can not be said of Muslim societies.

In other words, get a grip Islam!

I agree with Catapharact. Blaming the religion, for the acts of the people who cause death and destruction in it's name, isn't very sensible.

As I've said in the past, religion is a good idea turned bad by so many. It doesn't change the fact that the original idea is good. But I guarantee you, if there is a God, he's not at all happy with what is being done in his name.

“On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 7:22-23)