I believe the outlining of those 4 soldiers was just who was selected for that mission. I also believe there are 7 total Ghosts to choose from, the author of that piece was just highlighting which three accompanied "you" on the demo...

quote:

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Originally posted by alfa_fsb:
About the 4 man
http://ghostrecon.3dretreat.com/gr2_e3_preview_1.asp
middle of the page.
English is not my birth language so ...

What do you want me to do break in the Pentagon and get you your papers there are womans in suporting units in the Special Forces like PSYOPS or ground crews but NOT IN COMBAT.

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With all respect alfa if u cannot prove they do exist (without breaking into the pentagon) then u cannot prove they dont, Im curious to know what makes u think u know they dont. For u to KNOW this and be able to state it as fact u must have proof and u clearly dont, i would suggest u accept u made a naive comment and accept u cannot back it up.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke

@Klean, after you wiped out that poor girl's existence by not taking her photo, did you ever inform her family or did you just ignore it and that went away too?

quote:

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Originally posted by crtChunk72:
@Klean, after you wiped out that poor girl's existence by not taking her photo, did you ever inform her family or did you just ignore it and that went away too?

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she was a great girl actually i just dont have any pics of her for some reason

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke

I doubt very much there are any women serving with any of the currently deployed Army SF Teams in a combat role, HIGHLY unlikely. Maybe in a support and logistics role, but not in a front line combat capacity, and I doubt very much anything will change by 2014.

i think you should argue your point with the women who where captured and wounded at the beginning of the war in 2003......

they may not be in the direct combat roles like you say but they are in just as much danger as the men.

"In Operation Iraqi Freedom, women's missions did not involve ground combat, FROM WHICH THEY ARE BANNED."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20030623-122741-5014r

So if women are "banned" from combat, what makes some of you think that they would be Spec Ops? If they ARE in some Spec Ops unit, they are BANNED from combat.

Frankly, I don't care if they are in the game. Makes no difference to me.

As far as minorities in Spec Ops go.. the numbers are very small compared to the rest of the armed forces:

"Minorities are indeed underrepresented, even in comparison with the more restricted populations that SOF recruit from,"

http://www.rand.org/publications/RB/RB7526/RB7526.html

The second link also states: "The combat exclusion rule precludes females from joining SOF."

Funny how long this argument has been going on this thread. It took me all of 5 min to find links to the facts.

But that's not what he said...your article even shows that there is less of a chance of women being place in combat roles in the military. BUT they are there.

A quote taken from your first article listed:

"Despite more women in combat slots, Operation Iraqi Freedom was a safer place statistically, compared with the last major air-ground war, 1991's Operation Desert Storm. In that war, which lasted longer and involved twice as many U.S. troops, 16 women died..."

Despite more women in combat slots...proving that, yes, there are women in combat slots (and I point out that the original poster said nothing about special forces, only combat).

As for minorities in spec ops, his statment wasn't that they are underrepresented, or small in number. His statement was that they simply don't exist in the military.

As far as women in combat goes, it has happened. I've read news reports of female fighter pilots, female soldiers being used to defend bases, female soldiers in regular units. Granted these may have been test cases, and not followed up on. But it did happen...and if it did happen then logically it is possible. And if it is possible, then the devs felt it viable to place a female character into the game.

To point out another issue. His statement was not concerning women in special forces. His statement was concerning women in combat, and wether by accident or on purpose, they have been exposed to combat situations we have recent proof of that.

In any case...this is one of those arguments that you either agree with or you do not. Opinions about women in combat aside, if it's believable that a woman might be able to handle a special forces operation (and I know a few who I think very well could) then it's believable in the game. But that's a personal decision, you have yours, I have mine.

Maybe not in combat, but certainly in hostile situations. I believe that Delta Force likes to use women in reconaissance and intelligence gathering missions. Also, I know that the UK's Royal Marine Commandos allow women to enter the training programs, and some have even graduated. Let's not forget that the Soviets in WWII were more than happy to utilize women snipers, fighter pilots, and officers. And now, the U.S. lets women into combat roles, such as fighter and bomber pilots. What it really comes down to is that this is a game, it's fun, and playing as a woman comes as an option, so don't worry about it.

quote:

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I served with two Black guys that were on teams that were in the same safe house as us, I have some pics of them somewhere. Women are still not allowed except in administrative roles.

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That comes direct from a current serving Army SF soldier. He's recently been to Afghanistan and has loads of pics to share. He is the real deal. This is relating to the ODA Teams (depicted in the game).

But..

Women do serve in other dangerous capacities such as fighter pilots and some are helo pilots in the 160th SOAR. There are even some that serve in the USAF PJ's. Women are used for combat duties in the Israeli Defence Force in VCP's (Vehicle checkpoints) special patrol units like MAGAV (Border Patrol) YASAM (special Israeli Police unit), YAMAG (which is a Special Forces unit with both men and women) and YABAN (the women in the unit act as Defence Divers).

But, once again relating to the game and the unit depicted (which is a US Army SF (ODA) Team) there are no women deployed or selected into combat roles.

Why woman shouldnt be in the game.

First of all they need to stay their *** home and cook! Put them in a game where you bake pies and go shopping. Men get guns!
Yeah, I said it!

I suppose combat unit is a rather loosely defined term.

I would consider PJ's to be a combat unit, and I've met female PJ's at Hurlburt field in FL. Also, OSI the Air Force's counter terrorist/criminal investigation unit uses women for intelligence gathering in extremely forward positions. Literally walking the streets of some of the dirties place in the world gathering intel, and putting their lives on the line. Women are useful in that capacity, specifically because they ARE women, they can do different things that we can. I've read statistics that show women can remain more levelheaded in stressful situations than men. But this may be offset by higher emotional levels. Mentally women are equal to men in every way, national averages for SATs and other college and high school level exams show that there is almost no change in their mental ability. And while the average for physical ability is a large difference, we all know that there are women out there who could kick our asses (I'm secure with myself, I can admit it :-P).

But the fact remains that this is a GAME...and so I will respectfully end my discussion here. And when it comes out, I will use whatever GAME character best fits the GAME's mission that I'll be playing (in the GAME).

quote:

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Originally posted by Gizzmo0411:
we all know that there are women out there who could kick our asses

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Some guys have ALL the luck!!

,

[This message was edited by valleybacker on Tue May 18 2004 at 09:09 PM.]

What makes you assume that womens roles in the military won't continue to change? Years ago they said they'd never let women in the military in any capacity other then nurses... wow did that change.

It is my understanding that women serve in many combat roles in militaries of other countries. Russia has female snipers since WWII (though they were few), and Canada has been recruiting female soldiers for combat roles for years. Australia is seriously considering opening the Special Forces to women who qualify due to a sharp deciline in recruitments over the past 10 years and the current threat of terrorism. Anyone who says that women won't continue to see combat roles given to them hasn't looked into the matter much. These changes will be difficult, but nothing ever changes without strife... no pain no gain, as they say.

The real point in this case is that this is a game. They're trying to please a diverse audiance to make money, and something so minor as including female models can only add to the quality and immersiveness of the game. If you choose not to use the female characters in the single player game, you are given that option (note that us ladies don't have to the option to make an all female team for singleplayer... awwwe). As for online games, you're going to encounter female players, so they might as well have their choice of player models. Personally I applaud RSE for remembering us ladies play these games too.

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XboxLIVE GamerTag: LithiumRaine
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well i hope that they would let women on the front lines SOON they are all for "equal rights" so why not make them go through the men and i mean the same not lowered because they are aa women as the males and why the heck is it wrong to have a women chater in the game???????????????????????????????????
makes no sence

REDMONSTER

quote:

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Originally posted by jammo03:
Why woman shouldnt be in the game.

First of all they need to stay their *** home and cook! Put them in a game where you bake pies and go shopping. Men get guns!
Yeah, I said it!

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First of all I DON'T cook! I make my man do all the cooking, and he's more than happy to, since I can manage to burn a salad.

Second of all, you're lucky i'm not sensitive, because some women could be VERY easily offended by that comment.

Watch it bubba.....

_______________________________



Ubisoft RVS/AS, GR, and Far Cry Moderator

that's something i've been saying for quite a while. if women are so intent on having equal rights and everything then they should have to sign up for selective service like all men when they turn 18...

...i dont mean anything by it kimi...

quote:

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Originally posted by jammo03:
Why woman shouldnt be in the game.

First of all they need to stay their *** home and cook! Put them in a game where you bake pies and go shopping. Men get guns!
Yeah, I said it!

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LMFAO im not even gonna go there (im guessing he was taking the mickey cus he cant really be that ignorant can he )

As to the original post, many of u are going off about women in combat, regardless of ur opinions (im sure everyone has strong feelings one way or the other) alpa's original comments regarded anyone who wasnt white or male. He believed that all special ops are WHITE MALES ONLY, in my opinion that demostrates either a very niave young person or a very ignorant one.
The further point made by many including myself is that he cannot prove there are no women in spec ops and therefore cannot possibly know one way or the other, so making factual statements about it is silly.

We should also bear in mind that theres more than one army, the US army is not the only one out there so just because u dont think its the case for the US doesnt mean its not else where aruond the world.

p.s in regards to the comments about womens equal rights i agree, i think ull find theres many women out there in the forces who would love to have the same rights as the men, its not the women who dont want them.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke