I have nothing against woman in the military.
But the US dose not allow wman in combat now and it will not change in the next 10 years so why are womans in GR1 and 2.
If you want to play as a woman then you should have a quick charachter or somthing at the begining of the campaign MP game but not as a standard specialist like Diaz.

its a game

aka Zoog

I fail to understand what makes you so certain that there aren't women doing the things portrayed in the game. Women aren't openly welcomed into Special Forces but exceptions have been made.

since it is a game and adds an option to people, why does it matter

There were women in Iraq recently, weather on the front line or not they were still out there in hostile territory doing there jobs, so why shouldnt they be in the game as well.

It is after all only a game, next ull be saying that women cant play the game for the same reason

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke

There are women in the special forces.

"There are women in the special forces."
Not in US units.As there are no black people(afro-american).

quote:

---

Originally posted by alfa_fsb:
"There are women in the special forces."
Not in US units.As there are no black people(afro-american).

---

Give me a break, what planet are u on, do u seriously believe that the special forces are made up of white males only???

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke

Well i can show you tens of pictures of US SOF and there are only white males.
Now your problem is to show me pictures of black people or womans in SOF units.
No racism or sexist from me just observations.

quote:

---

Originally posted by alfa_fsb:
Well i can show you tens of pictures of US SOF and there are only white males.
Now your problem is to show me pictures of black people or womans in SOF units.
No racism or sexist from me just observations.

---

so let me get this straight, ur saying that because u have never seen a pic of a special forces who is female or not white they dont exist.
Im not sure how things work in the US but i can promise u that the UK SAS do not go around posting there photos, so getting such photos wouldnt be something i could do.

Edit: as a example i can remember one black girl in my school, yet shes not in any of the photos i took on my last day, that doesnt mean she wasnt there does it!!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing." Edmond Burke

quote:

---

Originally posted by alfa_fsb:
Well i can show you tens of pictures of US SOF and there are only white males.
Now your problem is to show me pictures of black people or womans in SOF units.
No racism or sexist from me just observations.

---

this and your views on it prove you dont know enough about the subject that you are attempting to argue about

I`m not arguing or try to prove that i know all about SOF but rasing a problem.

This could be one of the most retarded topics I've ever seen. Who the hell cares?????

This game takes place in 2014 - who knows what the Special Forces will look like? And do you really care? One of the worst things about GR1 was that all the squad people looked the same, sounded the same, with no personality. This is supposed to be entertainment, so entertain me dammit! There better be an asian guy and a friggin eskimo too!

* I should have put more thought forth before I posted this part... so I'm whacking it... *




[This message was edited by crtChunk72 on Tue May 18 2004 at 01:26 PM.]

The first question I would ask of you is: How old are you?

A statement like that would only be made by someone who hasn't the logical sense to reason that just because you haven't seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. It's just an illogical train of thought. This is not a personal attack, more of an attempt to help you see that things exist regardless of whether you know it or not.

As for your topic. Women in the military, it is a highly contraversial one, but not in the video game realm. Video games, by their nature, are creations. They are the products of humand minds...i.e. not real.The developers can put whatever they like into them. And if it's a female soldier that I'm using, and she's a better shot than the males and I need a good sniper...well heck, I'm going to use her.

Real life, unfortunately, is different. There are many issues to consider: Size, strength, emotional differences, how men relate to other men as opposed to how women relate to men, would a man treat a woman differently in combat? if she were injured? if she were captured would the enemy treat her differently?

And those are just a few topics to consider (for the record, I'm of the opinion that if she can do it, then she should do it...if she can do it better, then she should do it before a man should). I DON'T believe in grandfathering and gender norming for units that perform strenuous physical and mental tasks. If a woman is grandfathered through a program and given breaks, then she is not truly tested. If they intend to do the dirty jobs, then they must prove that they can handle the job, just as the men have to. But if she can handle it, then I don't see why she shouldn't be there.

Now if the topic is concerning women in the military, that's my view, but if you're complaining that there's a woman in your video game...well...don't play it? Or at least don't use her :-D

Ok you were right about afro-american people BUT womans are not in special forces or any combat unit in the army.

Why this topic because it is a matter regarding the game in terms of realism and accuracy it claims to be it`s trademak.
My age has nothing to do with this topic.
Also i`m shure things will not change not even in 2014.

PS: i`m forced to use her since there are only 4 charchters in teh game.

You simply can't make that statement as a fact unless you prove it. I need to see an official document that shows me that there aren't any women in special forces. As I said it's not a good argument by all logical standards. And since you are the one making the statment, you are the one who bears the burden of proof.

Age is a matter in the topic. I think that your thought process in such a statment is rather childish. You're approaching the topic as if you were an official, yet you don't provide empirical evidence that supports your argument. Something only a young person might do.

As I said before. The developers of the game have every right to put in whatever they like. And since they are a public corporation it benefits them to be politically correct. However, as for your statement about realism and accuracy, I would tend to think that the more important aspect of the game would be how accurate the actual gameplay is, the combat, and the tactics...not weather it is a man or woman doing the tasks. Perhaps you should take your query to the developers? Ask them if they researched the topic of women in special forces. I'm willing to bet that at least some effort went into the design for the female characters in terms of what their uniforms might look like, and how a female might run, move and operate in a combat situation. Perhaps they might have come across evidence that supports your argument. And if so, show me, and I will believe you.

Also only 4 characters? Where did you read this?

In any case, real issue is, that if the game is fun, and the characters are balanced, then what is the problem? You don't like the idea of using a female in a video game?

[This message was edited by Gizzmo0411 on Tue May 18 2004 at 02:22 PM.]

[This message was edited by Gizzmo0411 on Tue May 18 2004 at 02:25 PM.]

I don't mean to drag this topic on, but I just want to point out a quote from: specwarnet.net/americas/delta.htm

"The TO (Table of Order) for Delta consists of three operational squadrons, a support squadron, a signal squadron, an aviation platoon, and what is termed the "Funny Platoon". This funny platoon is reported to be the only JSOC unit including female operators. Selection for all of these units is rigourous with more focus on mental abilities and toughness than physical."

If you get a chance to watch and or read Black Hawk Down (again maybe). There was at least one Ranger who happened to be African American. Also, there was at least one Ranger who was Hispanic American. I say "at least", because the book and especially the movie doesn't talk about every single person that was there. Plus, I've seen Discovery Channel shows about Special Forces which show African Americans who are Special Forces members or (depending on the show) are in training. I recall a Discovery channel show about a US HALO jump training progam for Special Forces and Special Operations (I don't remember what the exact military name was). There was also an African American soldier there who was an Amry SF guy (maybe Ranger not sure now). Now that I think about it, I also remember a CNN reporter talking to a female fighter pilot who had just returned from one of her sorties during Operation Iraqi Freedom. I remember her call sign was "Thumper", the reporter only addressed her by her call sign. She was clearly envolved as an active combatant in a combat situation (and not by accident).

I'm not trying to make you feel stupid for making what seemed like an innocent observation, but just look a little harder next time. Plus, someone already mentioned that SF type people most likely don't make it a habit of doing group photos. I guess only SFOD (and the like) only know which socially constructed races and genders truly exist amongst them.

For the most part anyway, GR1 & 2 are just games after all, and just entertainment in the end.

[This message was edited by silent_op on Tue May 18 2004 at 02:54 PM.]

About the 4 man
http://ghostrecon.3dretreat.com/gr2_e3_preview_1.asp
middle of the page.
English is not my birth language so ...

What do you want me to do break in the Pentagon and get you your papers there are womans in suporting units in the Special Forces like PSYOPS or ground crews but NOT IN COMBAT.