quote:

Originally posted by MxSkanduhLESxM:
the major thing is the tactical exploit of this.

if you know that you are only going to be injured, but you can still communicate.. the smart thing to do is just have one guy VOLUNTEER to run to the highest point on the map and take one for the team.. no matter if he is down.. he can still communicate enemy positions.

this is my problem with the current system.. a downed enemy can still communicate troop positions. the other team has to sit there and watch him die b4 they can press forward.

if he's communicating your position the fair thing to do is to shoot him, so he can't ruin the your team's strategy.

if he was down and muted and just lying there quiet. .i could care less if he sat there injured.

but when a team gets an obvious advantage on the battlefield due to some invulnerability shield.. then i definitely have an issue with it.

i hate invulnerability in any game.

Yes. Good point.

quote:

Originally posted by MxSkanduhLESxM:
the major thing is the tactical exploit of this.

if you know that you are only going to be injured, but you can still communicate.. the smart thing to do is just have one guy VOLUNTEER to run to the highest point on the map and take one for the team.. no matter if he is down.. he can still communicate enemy positions.

this is my problem with the current system.. a downed enemy can still communicate troop positions. the other team has to sit there and watch him die b4 they can press forward.

if he's communicating your position the fair thing to do is to shoot him, so he can't ruin the your team's strategy.

if he was down and muted and just lying there quiet. .i could care less if he sat there injured.

but when a team gets an obvious advantage on the battlefield due to some invulnerability shield.. then i definitely have an issue with it.

i hate invulnerability in any game.

Eveyone is saying good point, but there is only one problem.....There is proximity chat....

yeah the soldier would be talking to his fire team although it might be along the line of "Hey ****ers come get me I'm bleedin' over here!!!" or at least I would be saying that

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:Eveyone is saying good point, but there is only one problem.....There is proximity chat....

i dont see how that changes anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Jermtheory:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:Eveyone is saying good point, but there is only one problem.....There is proximity chat....

i dont see how that changes anything.

If one teammate runs to the top of the map, will the rest of the team be within earshot, and would they be able to hear the "sacrificed" teammate calling out enemy positions? I would doubt it.

Hey don't discourage him..I'd love to see my opponents using a brilliant strategy like that..

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:

quote:

Originally posted by Jermtheory:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:Eveyone is saying good point, but there is only one problem.....There is proximity chat....

i dont see how that changes anything.

If one teammate runs to the top of the map, will the rest of the team be within earshot, and would they be able to hear the "sacrificed" teammate calling out enemy positions? I would doubt it.

im sorry,why dont we remove the qualifier "to the top of the map"....

ok,how about one teammate tops that hill right in front of us....or rounds that corner...or exits that alley...etc...etc...etc...

i cant count how many times a teammate got mowed down in front of me in GRAW(from somehwere that i didnt have an actual LOS to) and i was able to see where the fire was coming from and quickly flank for the kill.

adding the ability to talk to this down teammate would make things even more effective....and knowing he could be healed would encourage this tactic even without the ability to communicate.

Ok I see your point now. Maybe, just maybe, RSE could make it so the downed person can't actually talk, but his character will yell "Medic!" every once in a while, I think it would be good in addition to the blinking circle over the downed guys head. Does that sound good? I'm just throwing out ideas here.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:
Ok I see your point now. Maybe, just maybe, RSE could make it so the downed person can't actually talk, but his character will yell "Medic!" every once in a while, I think it would be good in addition to the blinking circle over the downed guys head. What do you think?

sounds better...

i still want instant kills.

as mentioned even without the ability to communicate,i can see it being used as a cheap(unrealistic) tactic...to send out a lamb.

Instant kills are coming..but in any case, this would really only be effective against a lone wolf. Otherwise you're maybe going to locate one or two of the enemies. And whether there's a guy laying there bleeding out or not, if you start firing and don't prepare for a counterattack, that's really your own fault.

quote:

Originally posted by MeanMF:
Instant kills are coming.

quote:

but in any case, this would really only be effective against a lone wolf. Otherwise you're maybe going to locate one or two of the enemies. And whether there's a guy laying there bleeding out or not, if you start firing and don't prepare for a counterattack, that's really your own fault

regardless,if its unrealistic i dont want it.

quote:

i still want instant kills.

So do I, if the condition is right for example, a head shot.

I would also like to see the Interceptor armor working realistically, I'll explain; The interceptor armor's Ceramic plates can take up to 3 rifle rounds. I would like to see the game register the first 3 chest shots a person takes as "Armor shots", possibly wounding the person depending on the caliber of the bullet. But after the first 3 shots to the chest I would like to see an increased/decreased bleed out time (depending on the caliber of the bullet), or possibly instant death if the bullet is big enough like a .50 cal.

Just as a small example, the armor would take 3 5.56s no problem and would wound the person after the 3 shots break the ceramic plate, however a .50 would go right through the armor, giving an instant kill.

Once again, I am just throwing out ideas.

How does that armor hold up to 7.62 x39, or 54?

quote:

Originally posted by MeanMF:
Instant kills are coming.

who said instant kills are coming?

quote:

Originally posted by XxCH0NGxX:
who said instant kills are coming?

Me, about a page back.

quote:

Originally posted by HMD5x56x45x:
How does that armor hold up to 7.62 x39, or 54?

Interceptor's ceramic plates are designed to stop three 7.62x51mm NATO rounds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interceptor_body_armor

It is the same armor that saved this soldier


Oh, and helmets don't always fail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUyesihMliA

A former co-worker was telling about some of his time in Iraq last year and I remember him telling about the US Army was not allowing soldiers to use non-issued body armor. He explained that there was a type of armor that was much better than what was standard issue. I guess a lot of soldiers wanted to use it but were not allowed to, after they changed the policy for using non-issued armor or something.

He was over there in 05/06 I think. Looking at that wikipedia entry, it seems there was some issues. I noticed they had a link there to the Dragon Skin body armor and I think that was type he was fond of, but couldn't use anymore.

Saying it can stop 3 7.62 x 51's makes it sound pretty good though.

That video is crazy, I guess it was filmed by insurgents. If the shot was taken from near the camera and our soldier was able to recover that quickly, it sure seems like it works good.

quote:

Saying it can stop 3 7.62 x 51's makes it sound pretty good though.

Yeah, until you get hit with more than that.

The M240B General-Purpose Machine Gun (GPMG) for example has a firing rate of over 950 rounds per-minute. If you and your squad got ambushed by a pair of those then your armor wouldn't help at all.

Some weapons like the MG3 GPMG fire almost twice as fast, and are widely available to insurgents around the world.

quote:

A former co-worker was telling about some of his time in Iraq last year and I remember him telling about the US Army was not allowing soldiers to use non-issued body armor. He explained that there was a type of armor that was much better than what was standard issue. I guess a lot of soldiers wanted to use it but were not allowed to, after they changed the policy for using non-issued armor or something.

I'm almost positive your co-worker was referring to Dragon Skin. Remember, those tests are done in ideal environments, and the reason the US Army isn't fielding it is because, they claim that when tested in extreme heat and cold, the ceramic disks move from their original position, and just leave a large open space in the armor, that has no ceramic disk protection, and the bullets just eat right through it.

Check out the thread in the Rainbow Six Off-topic forum about dragon skin http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/756105611/m/6371042065

Sounds like D&D. I've got my +2 Dragon Skin and I'm also impervious to flame.

People talking over the details of helmets and body armor is understandable, but so many things are NOT being said about the big picture. In this game every serious shot results in a guy falling on the ground. Well I'm here to say that anything that makes you fall down means you're OUT OF THE FIGHT. A guy with a tattered arm doesn't fall down, maybe not even if it's torn OFF. A guy with a shot up leg is going NOWHERE. Unless Jesus himself is roaming the battlefield in his robe and sandals, nobody who falls to the dirt incapacitated with injuries is going to fight for a least a MONTH.

What we have here is bits and pieces of reality, but it's not been woven into a believable ruleset. Sure we don't shoot wounded enemies. But these aren't your average wounded enemies. Sure a bullet in the leg isn't lethal - but is that guy really going to fight?

Now I very much like the dragging and healing aspects. I like what it does for team play and comraderie. I'll even put up with the unrealistic bandage-your-leg-and-you're-Carl-Lewis b/s to get it. But when you add on this forced ethical junk then you're forcing me to swallow OTHER fakey aspects of the game that I'm not prepared to swallow.

IF (IF) I can't shoot this enemy injury FAKER, then what CAN I do to make sure he's out of the game? They forced a ruleset on us, but left us powerless against another glaring departure from reality. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at these dynamics meetings they must have. I envision a bunch of juniors who only want to tell the boss they love it. Same thing with beta testers, probably. Suck ups who want to avoid negativity.

Another thing, and not that I expect this in the game, but anyone who has received a non-lethal injury is still going to have some ambulance to them. Shoot up my leg and I can still drag myself to a tree for cover. Shoot my chest armor three times (or whatever you guys say it is) and I'll pop up and run like a raped ape. If the knock downs are symbolic of lesser injuries, their affect on game dynamics is unwarranted.

More death, less A-Team nonsense.