quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden:
The phrasing of that question doesn't make sense (or maybe it's just me), though I know what you meant by it. English is a weird language... You could either ask "Are you at all surprised?" or "Is it any surprise?" Anyway...

Sorry about my language shortcomings man
But i hope the general meaning got across.

quote:

Miyamoto, while supposedly loaded, is apparently quite modest and requests an average income... whether that's true or just a bit of spin, I don't know

Considering that Hiroshi Yamauchi (and if you're familiar with his famous quotes, you'll know that man is REALLY nuts) is now classified as the richest man in japan, I doubt Yamamoto to be too far behind.

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As for Nintendo and non-gaming etc, I bet you Sony and Microsoft are envious of the success of the Wii.

Maybe they do, but they continue to sport an extremely varied and core-gamer centric lineup, which is great. Having games for casuals is ok, centering almost your whole lineup on casual gaming is not.

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I also bet you there'll be a boom in similar stuff on their systems in the near future...

GTA4 demonstrated that core gaming is definately still hot (it will basically outsell EVERYTHING in gaming history, wii titles included), so even if both sony and microsoft will probably support some casual games, I absolutely doubt they'll ever neglect core games for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Abriael:

quote:

Originally posted by uppi17:
I think you're totally wrong about the Wii not having 'proper' games. Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Pro Evo Wii (the only truly next gen footy game), Metroid Prime, Paper Mario, No More Heroes (probably the best love letter to games I've seen in a long while) and Zack & Wiki.

And when did i ever say that it hass NO proper games? I said that the number of it's proper games is extremely low..

What about :
LOZ:TP
Battallion Wars II
Blazing Angels:Squadrons of WWII
Bully:Scholarship Edition

And there are a few others but I'm too lazy to look it up.
Now take in account that the Wii has been out for roughly 16 months.That comes to an average of 1 game every 6 weeks.
I prefer that over having too many games coming out.This way I atleast get the change to play them properly.

quote:

Originally posted by Abriael:
And even going as far as considering all the ones you named proper games,

I could be wrong but the way you phrased that implies that you don't consider some of the games mentioned as 'proper' games.If I'm right, which ones and why?

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden
The phrasing of that question doesn't make sense (or maybe it's just me),

I was thinking the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Abriael:
And when did i ever say that it hass NO proper games? I said that the number of it's proper games is extremely low. And even going as far as considering all the ones you named proper games, you named SEVEN games, which is indeed an extremely limited line up absolutely drowned in shovelware. Morover most those games had an extremely limited communication compared to the non games. No more heroes, that's undoubtly the best game the wii has at the moment, had ZERO communication. Absolute zero.

Fair point there. I probably took your point the wrong way. I reckon those seven games should last you a pretty long time. And you're right, Nintendo are advertising less to hardcore gamers than new people.

I suspect this is to entice new people to the gaming arena as they make more profit out of them than true gamers (seeing how the Gamecube bombed despite being a pretty good machine I can't blame them for that). I just didn't want people to ignore the fact that the Wii does have some good games.

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Too bad that a console software (running on a console that has the processing power of a texas instruments calculator) hasn't the slightest chance to properly judge an human ideal weight, expecially given the fact that the tables it uses are just a reference and should never be taken into account for proper diagnosis. The only one that should tell if someone should gain or loose weight is a doctor, or a dietist. In this the wii fit is basically a scam, and a damaging one at it, expecially in the hands of kids.

Again, a fair point. If people are using WiiFit as their only guide for then that's wrong & I'm sure there are lots of disclaimers in the manuals saying that. However it's a pretty good guide to show an indicator as to how your weight is (of course I'm only saying that because I'm 'ideal' )

Of course I might just be writing this as I'm trying to justify buying a Wii rather than a PS3/360 and GTA4...

quote:

Originally posted by Jerome-143:

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden
The phrasing of that question doesn't make sense (or maybe it's just me),

I was thinking the same thing.

OK, there's no need to be like that, I was just trying to help the guy!

quote:

Originally posted by Jerome-143:
I prefer that over having too many games coming out.This way I atleast get the change to play them properly.

You don't take in account the fact that a limited lineup gets even more limited when confronted to a gamer's tastes. If the choice is between few titles (and indeed are few, far between, and drowned by shovelware), then the titles will be even less when you remove from the list the games and genres you simply don't like.

quote:

I could be wrong but the way you phrased that implies that you don't consider some of the games mentioned as 'proper' games.If I'm right, which ones and why?

Just to make an example, it's been some years since i defined a "proper game" a production including a certain italian plumber that shares the charisma of a shovel. Such productions are simple nintendo fanservice coupled with repeatitive and mindless mechanics.

quote:

Originally posted by uppi17:
I suspect this is to entice new people to the gaming arena as they make more profit out of them than true gamers (seeing how the Gamecube bombed despite being a pretty good machine I can't blame them for that).

The problem is that their communication and marketing shows quite clearly that they don't try to entice anyone to the gaming arena, there's no passage from casual to core gaming encouraged. They just cater to casuals, and slam out some fanservice game once in a while to keep the fanboys enticed. But their stance towards core gamers is abysmal. If you read some of the quotes from the ex N boss hiroshi yamauchi to get a good feel of that.
For Nintendo gaming is a matter of toys, and they strive to impose that vision.

quote:

Again, a fair point. If people are using WiiFit as their only guide for then that's wrong & I'm sure there are lots of disclaimers in the manuals saying that. However it's a pretty good guide to show an indicator as to how your weight is (of course I'm only saying that because I'm 'ideal' Wink )

Lots of things have disclaimers, but disclaimers don't mean such items shouldn't be made in a more sensitive way. It's obvious that many 15 years old girls, when the wii fit tells them they are fatties, won't take it lightly, disclaimer or not.
Simply enough, Nintendo went too far with the wii fit, in their berserker frenzy to be "innovative", and their giddly family friendly politics will possibly turn around and bite them in the ass.
And man, that would be sweet to see.

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja Raiden:
OK, there's no need to be like that, I was just trying to help the guy!

you can ALWAYS count on your friendly neightborhood nintendo fanboy to be quite more bitter than the average when someone dares to look at his little gods in a less than extremely favourable way
Must be the inferiority complex

quote:

Originally posted by Abriael:

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja Raiden:
OK, there's no need to be like that, I was just trying to help the guy!

you can ALWAYS count on your friendly neightborhood nintendo fanboy to be quite more bitter than the average when someone dares to look at his little gods in a less than extremely favourable way
Must be the inferiority complex

Oh no, I was playing on the second part of my sentence... I suppose I should've written it like this, for clarity

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden:

quote:

Originally posted by Jerome-143:

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden
The phrasing of that question doesn't make sense (or maybe it's just me)

I was thinking the same thing.

OK, there's no need to be like that, I was just trying to help the guy!

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden:
Oh no, I was playing on the second part of my sentence... I suppose I should've written it like this, for clarity

Oh i wasn't talking about you

I know. I thought I'd clear up what I meant as it wasn't anything to do with his Nintendo loving ways. Anyway, carry on

quote:

Originally posted by Abriael:

Just to make an example, it's been some years since i defined a "proper game" a production including a certain italian plumber that shares the charisma of a shovel. Such productions are simple nintendo fanservice coupled with repeatitive and mindless mechanics.

Hang on, are you saying Super Mario Galaxy is just 'fan service' and has 'mindless mechanics'? Have you even played the game man? It's the best game I have ever played. Each level shows such innovation and is not repetitive. Insult Wii Fit and Nintendo's toys all you want, but saying Galaxy is rubbish just totally undermines your other arguments.

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The problem is that their communication and marketing shows quite clearly that they don't try to entice anyone to the gaming arena, there's no passage from casual to core gaming encouraged. They just cater to casuals, and slam out some fanservice game once in a while to keep the fanboys enticed. But their stance towards core gamers is abysmal. If you read some of the quotes from the ex N boss hiroshi yamauchi to get a good feel of that.
For Nintendo gaming is a matter of toys, and they strive to impose that vision.

That's true but what have the core gamers done to deserve special treatment from Nintendo? If you're a core gamer and have a Wii the games are there. Yes they're not advertised as much as the 'toy' games, but you can still find them.

Put it this way. Non gamers wouldn't have known about Brain Training without the marketing push. Core Gamers are more likely to be clued up and find games like No More Heroes or The World Ends With You even if there was no marketing spend. Nintendo are getting more bang for their advertising buck. I can't blame them for that, can you?

Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony are all in it for the money. They don't care who they sell their product to as long as it's making money. Why do you think Microsoft are developing a motion controller? For Core Gamers? Why do Sony bring out EyeToy and Singstar? These items get more marketing than the average game but for some reason you're singling out the Wii.

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Lots of things have disclaimers, but disclaimers don't mean such items shouldn't be made in a more sensitive way. It's obvious that many 15 years old girls, when the wii fit tells them they are fatties, won't take it lightly, disclaimer or not.
Simply enough, Nintendo went too far with the wii fit, in their berserker frenzy to be "innovative", and their giddly family friendly politics will possibly turn around and bite them in the ass.
And man, that would be sweet to see.

you can ALWAYS count on your friendly neightborhood nintendo fanboy to be quite more bitter than the average when someone dares to look at his little gods in a less than extremely favourable way
Must be the inferiority complex

You're not being 'less than extremely favourable' though are you? Let's look at your points:
- The Wii is a toy (well it's aimed at the family)
- Nintendo hate hardcore gamers (despite there being AT LEAST seven decent games for the Wii that all core gamers should play)
- Wii Fit is rubbish and could hurt your feelings (except from my viewpoint it's got me starting to do some exercise which can only be A Good Thing)
- Nintendo deserve to go out of business for attempting to get people doing some exercise (really don't see this at all)
- Super Mario Galaxy is only 'fanservice' and has 'repetitive and mindless mechanics' (Totally and utterly wrong (although you could be on about Super Paper Mario, but then the 'charisma of a shovel' would be wrong as SPM has the best writing this side of Phoenix Wright))

Ah well. You have your viewpoint and I have mine. I doubt we're ever going to find a meeting point so let's shake hands and part like gentlemen.

I'm glad this thread hasn't broken out into an all out war

On a related note, I jogged for half an hour on free jogging last night - woo hoo! Started the 'game', put the wii mote in my pocket, and switched over to another channel. The speaker from the wii mote occasionally keeps you up to date with how you're doing, and how long you have left to go. Very clever idea. Almost made me feel not guilty for watching Sex in the City (well... almost.)

Aye, sure d'ya not know we're all wild civil here d'ya not?

/local talk (I have actually heard someone ask "D'ya not know d'ya not?" Fantastic question!)

You were watching TV while exercising? Tch...

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden:

You were watching TV while exercising? Tch...

Well, as long as I'm exercising whilst watching it, it's all good, no? It stops you from being bored.

That "Tch..." was a half-hearted one... see the trailing off? If it was a genuine chide-y "Tch", it would've had an exclamation mark. Sometimes there just isn't a good smiley to use, y'know?

Anyway, yes, you're absolutely right. Although if you're bored while exercising, either you don't want to do it badly enough or, um... no that's all

quote:

Originally posted by Jam_FDUK:

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden:

You were watching TV while exercising? Tch...

Well, as long as I'm exercising whilst watching it, it's all good, no? It stops you from being bored.

It's quite all right, Jam. All gyms have televisions. However, for the true gym experience it must be on some tripe like "Doctors" or "Coronation Street". I'm afraid "Sex in the City" is a little too entertaining, and is seen as 'breaking the rules', lol.

Considering the WiiFit is kinda like an exercise encyclopedia, I'm surprised they didn't provide a "warm up/cool down" session! It's actually vital to do this before jumping straight into some of the stuff especially the muscle workouts. Can potentially pull muscles/injure yourself.

So how is everyone getting on with their BMI goals?

That's a very good point. Because I've had a personal trainer in the past (and am basically a bit of an exercise nazi) I know you need to get warmed up before you even consider muscle workouts. But how many others do? Maybe they tell you right at the start? I can't remember.

Have you got it then Shaz?

besides my opinion about Mario and company (which is of course an opinion, and it's definately not worth starting an all out war about), looks like I wasn't that off-target about the wii fit.

here's today news:

http://kotaku.com/5009320/expert-says-children-should-be-banned-from-wii-fit

BMI is pretty bogus in itself, but using it for children is totally out of question.

I think the thing with Wii fit is that you can see there's so many ways it could be improved (proper warm ups/down, set exercises to build up part of your body, not having scary faced automatons for trainers) but the core part of it is good.

Has anyone heard that EA are bringing Skate out for the Wii and it has balance board support? Now that should be good.

quote:

Originally posted by Jam_FDUK:
That's a very good point. Because I've had a personal trainer in the past (and am basically a bit of an exercise nazi) I know you need to get warmed up before you even consider muscle workouts. But how many others do? Maybe they tell you right at the start? I can't remember.

Have you got it then Shaz?

Yeah, I gave in to the new hype and I couldn't go wrong with staff discount. Must say it's quite impressive!

quote:

Originally posted by Abriael:
here's today news:

http://kotaku.com/5009320/expert-says-children-should-be-banned-from-wii-fit

BMI is pretty bogus in itself, but using it for children is totally out of question.

Yet again we come back to our oh-so-fragile sensitive society. (Seriously I think some are just milking it.) This just only brings back the same old stuff like that Miss Bimbo web game or whatever it was... the stupid pink patch.. general teenage magazines.. etc etc.

I'd imagine that what happened to this little girl couldn't just conclude that young kids are the only audience in danger of THE EVIL WII FIT BOARD mwah ha ha ha! Adults can also have obsessive issues over their weight/appearance too. If you think seriously that there are mighty concious minds through all ages anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by uppi17:
I think the thing with Wii fit is that you can see there's so many ways it could be improved (proper warm ups/down, set exercises to build up part of your body, not having scary faced automatons for trainers) but the core part of it is good.

Yes those faces are scary! Once I couldn't keep up with the 20rep? (the second bit you unlock for jack knife in muscle workouts), I could only imagine that scary ghost-like trainer would punch my tv screen, jump through and elbow smash me for giving up at 17/20.

Nintendo should have made custom trainers.. lol. Imagine if you could have Arnold Swarchneggar.. or Mr Motivator from old GMTV! lmao

quote:

Originally posted by TinyShaz:
Yet again we come back to our oh-so-fragile sensitive society. (Seriously I think some are just milking it.) This just only brings back the same old stuff like that Miss Bimbo web game or whatever it was... the stupid pink patch.. general teenage magazines.. etc etc.

I'd imagine that what happened to this little girl couldn't just conclude that young kids are the only audience in danger of THE EVIL WII FIT BOARD mwah ha ha ha! Adults can also have obsessive issues over their weight/appearance too. If you think seriously that there are mighty concious minds through all ages anyway.

There are two problem with this:
1: BMI is, even if far from perfect, more accurate when used on adults. This means that there's simply more chance that the results on kids would be inaccurate. Nintendo should have written that the results were inaccurate for children somewhere, because while some know that BMI is inaccurate for children, many don't. The only thing they'll know is that their little white machine they love so much told them "hey, you're fat", not "hey, you're fat, but if you are under 16, this might be inaccurate"

2: it's not much of a matter of an oversensitive society, it's more of a matter that certain tagets amongst the society are more likely to obsess over certain things, like young girls with being overweight. I've dated an anorexic girl, so i experienced it first hand. It's been extremely difficult, frustarting and discuraging to help her get out of it.
That's why i definately think young girls definately don't need any further reason to stop eating.

My idea is that Nintendo is stuck in some kind of omnipotency delirium, wanting to invade more or less every aspect of the life of their customers. The problem is that when you do this, it's very easy to go beyond some boundaries that's better steer clear from, and this is, IMHO, one of those cases

Bottomline, if they didn't know that BMI is inaccurate for kids (doubt it), they shouldn't have made a machine like the wii fit on the first place, that's just irresponsible.
If they did know, then they should have put a warning or a disclaimer in the software,it would have costed them nothing, and would have avoided quite some risks. Again, in both cases their behaviour has been irresponsible, and IMHO they do deserve to be bitten in their rear for that.
If one wants to avoid responsibilities, then he should just stick to making games. if they want to go beyond that and make tools that influence people's life, then responsibility and awareness for problems that may be caused is a must.