http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml

Personally I would never convict this guy. If he is charged, I'm hoping for jury nullification. That's when the jury agrees that the prosecution has proven its case, but refuses to convict the defendant.

If there were more people like this guy, the country would be in a better place.

This is local news for me, Pasadena is about 35 minutes from where I live (at least when there isn't much traffic). I've heard the 911 tape about a 1000 times and it seems like the transcript is fairly innaccurate, and all the local sources reported that Mr. Horn is over 70, not 61. I'm a bit torn myself, legally he doesn't have a leg to stand on unless they determine that the burglars tried to attack him first (seems unlikely), on the hand, I'd consider myself lucky to have a neighbor who would intervene if I was getting robbed. I would probably intervene myself, but probably give the half a chance to give up if they were not obviously armed (I.E. I'd would have them to get down on the ground with their legs spread and their arms away from their bodies). It seems likely based on listening to the tape that he did not even attempt to subdue them before shooting and as best as anyone can tell the only weapon the robbers had was a crowbar. Of course, if someone wants to "take one for the team" and just shoot 'em that's up to them, but they shouldn't expect not to be in some kind of legal trouble.

P.S. Of course, if it was on my own property they'd be dead in about half a second regardless of whether they were armed or not, here in Texas you could (theoretically) shoot a girlscout going door to door selling cookies for tresspassing (thankfully, no one does shoot girlscouts, however).

But if you were on the jury, you wouldn't convict him, would you? Just because the prosecution proves its case, doesn't mean you have to convict- the jury always has the option to let the guy go free.

Actually thor, not sure about where this is, but in Florida, part of what is defined as self defense is not only danger to yourself but imminent danger to others around you as well. Meaning if you see someone pointing a gun at someone close to you, you are actually allowed to take that sucker out.

But again, I don't know how the law is where this happened.

Would really depend on where he shot the victims. i.e. in the back means your in trouble also depends on the guys mental help and to be honest from reading the conversation with the dispatcher it sounded like the man was eager to shoot the robbers. Kill two humans over a bag of loot while shouting ' Bang, your dead!' Seems like this mans in trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by Demon_Mustang:
Actually thor, not sure about where this is, but in Florida, part of what is defined as self defense is not only danger to yourself but imminent danger to others around you as well. Meaning if you see someone pointing a gun at someone close to you, you are actually allowed to take that sucker out.

But again, I don't know how the law is where this happened.

Weren't they leaving when he shot them though? Under the law, I don't think seeing two people breaking into a house counts as putting someone in danger. I would normally support this guy, but it seems like he just wanted to shoot someone. I think if he just told them to get down then he would be ok but he just shot them. Although apparently they did go over to his property and he said he felt in danger. So you never know.

Well, I was just stating a general thing regarding the matter. I don't know specifically about this situation. But in Florida, if someone breaks into an occupied house or vehicle, you have the right to assume that they intend to do harm to you or those in the house or vehicle and use defensive force including lethal force. The reasoning behind this is, if they enter your house knowing that it is occupied, then they must have a plan of action of in the case they run into you, or else they would have simply looked for a house that was not occupied.

I don't know if in this situation the people were inside of his house or running away outside, but if they were inside, you can still justify the shooting according to Florida law. Although I know this is Texas, so not sure how their laws are specifically, but I'm sure it cannot be much different than ours. Afterall, it's not the republic of kalifornia or anything...

You can shoot someone going into another house? I knew you could shoot them if they were putting someone else in danger but I didn't know you could if they were entering their house. It doesn't really effect me though living in the people's republic of illinois.

Like I keep saying, I was just stating a general thing in response to someone else. NOT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THIS SITUATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

quote:

Originally posted by snapkracklepop:
You can shoot someone going into another house? I knew you could shoot them if they were putting someone else in danger but I didn't know you could if they were entering their house. It doesn't really effect me though living in the people's republic of illinois.

Not in Texas.

I'm not going to debate the legality of what this man did, or judge him for doing it, but after reading the transcript of the 911 call I agree with this quote from the dispatcher: "ain't no property worth shooting somebody over". Or TWO people for that matter.

Other than call the police like Mr. Horn did, I don't know what I would have done if I were in his position. I do know that I wouldn't have shot those two men unless I felt my, or someone else's life was in danger. And regardless of the reason for shooting them--especially if I killed them, I'd be shook up if not haunted by what I did.

I do respect him for looking out for his fellow neighbors though. That old man had the guts to go out there and confront those men while they were committing their crime. I gotta give him that.

Robbing a house is no where near as bad as killing someone. The old man should never have done that. Imo people shouldn't even have guns.

If I saw a robber in my neighbours home I would call the police and go over to the robbers and tell them to f'ck off. The courts would do f'ck all anyway and shooting them would be a tad over the top.

Imo america has far more problems with these kinds of stuff because they don't have much when it comes to socialism. There education sucks in most places, there health only cares about the rich and they don't look after the poor enough.

LMAO!!! I hope none of that was serious, because if not, then your sense of humor is genius!!

I hope that was all a joke too, Demon. There's nothing funnier to me than seeing a post from someone, bad-mouthing Americans for our lack of education...when their entire post is filled with horrible grammar and spelling.

We could get into the part about how even in a "gunless" society, the criminals always seem to have them for some reason. Maybe that's why they call themselves "criminals", and any law you have telling them they can't have something, they're just going to thumb their noses at.

As for this situation. I can't say if the old guy acted properly or not...I wasn't there.

Lol, yah, I would like to find someone that's actually serious about that. That would be funny too, haha.

quote:

Originally posted by rogue_tom:
If I saw a robber in my neighbours home I would call the police and go over to the robbers and tell them to fu- *gunshots can be heard throughout the neighborhood*

-Fixed

More on topic though, isn't there some law in Texas where you can shoot someone for tresspassing? They were found in his yard no?

I doubt it is for your yard, most likely it's similar to Florida's law stating that you're allowed to use defensive force including lethal force on someone who is intruding into an occupied home or vehicle. Meaning only inside your house, not your yard. I don't think any state allows the use of lethal force on someone on your yard simply by them being there.

Having lived in Texas for much of my life I know the answer to this one. You can shoot people for tresspassing (even girl scouts who come by to sell cookies). Fortunately, in spite of the 'cowboy' reputation we have among Europeans no one has actually been crazy enough to shoot girl scouts. . . though there was that drunken Irishman whose car broke down 10 or more years ago (however, he scared the **** out of the home owners by acting. . . well. . . drunken).

P.S. As far as I know when Roy Horn shot the illegal immigrant (I'm just sayin'. . .) burglars they were in the neighbor's yard. If they were in his yard I doubt any of us (except maybe me living nearby) would have ever heard of him.

Maybe he can argue that he was confused as to where the property lines were, lol.

The report said they were on his property eying his house, that sounds like they might try to rob him too, I would've shot them before they got into my house (especially if I was as old as the man).