Most people nowadays are unaware that prior to Pearl Harbor, it was conservatives who did not want a strong military and did not want to enter a war. Funding for the military was withheld so much that the army used trucks with big signs on them painted with tank to simulate tanks.

We had an isolationist population that did not want to enter WW2 and only did so due to Dec 7th. The British were appalled at our lack of readiness to build the equipment needed to defeat any enemies much less help equip allies. It took over a year to ramp up production once we entered the war.

Looking forward to 2000, we had 8 years of a liberal government that did much the same thing though troops did not have to use trucks as tanks. People had their head in the sand, much as they did back in the late 30s. Fortunately, we were a bit more prepared to take the fight to the enemy this go 'round.

For those who complain of losses, think about this, over 3000 were lost on Iwo Jima in 30 days of fighting while it's just over 4000 in 5 years. Big difference. WW2 had more casualties than over the course of 4 years of fighting (not counting the years we weren't involved), than we have had with either Iraqi operations. Think about that.

I am not quite sure why or how Bush's unjust war in Iraq can even be compaired to the greatest war in the history of human kind World War 2 but I gave up trying to understand the minds of Republicans a long time ago.

I have absolutely no problem fighting terrorists, the HUGE problem is we STOPPED chasing Bin Laden after he went into Pakistan and left the corrupt Pakistanis do the work. Than we go and invade Iraq a nation that obviously had no WMDs (5 years later and not even a single barrel of these millions of pounds that were supposedly laying around? Gimme a break). None of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi, the UN could not trace a single dollar from Iraq to Al-Quida and yet we stopped our hunt for Bin Laden to go kill Saddam...

We had no problem invading Iraq but all of a sudden became diplomatically against invading Pakistan even tho they have direct ties to Al-Queda and Bin Laden is most likely within their boarders.

Like I said I have no problems with fighting terrorists I just have a huge freakin problem with us invading any country that MAY attack us and ignoring those that have done so and/or are shielding those that have. I dont trust any damn word a Republican politician says after the royal butt reaming the party gave us back pre-war.

I also find it odd how when McCain announced his candidacy he pretty much said he'd continue Bush's work but now that Bush has become the least popular President in our country's history McCain is saying his views are different than Bush's.

[/ the angry rant of a democrat]

quote:

Originally posted by bharlan2002:
I am not quite sure why or how Bush's unjust war in Iraq can even be compaired to the greatest war in the history of human kind World War 2 but I gave up trying to understand the minds of Republicans a long time ago.

I have absolutely no problem fighting terrorists, the HUGE problem is we STOPPED chasing Bin Laden after he went into Pakistan and left the corrupt Pakistanis do the work. Than we go and invade Iraq a nation that obviously had no WMDs (5 years later and not even a single barrel of these millions of pounds that were supposedly laying around? Gimme a break). None of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi, the UN could not trace a single dollar from Iraq to Al-Quida and yet we stopped our hunt for Bin Laden to go kill Saddam...

We had no problem invading Iraq but all of a sudden became diplomatically against invading Pakistan even tho they have direct ties to Al-Queda and Bin Laden is most likely within their boarders.

Like I said I have no problems with fighting terrorists I just have a huge freakin problem with us invading any country that MAY attack us and ignoring those that have done so and/or are shielding those that have. I dont trust any damn word a Republican politician says after the royal butt reaming the party gave us back pre-war.

I also find it odd how when McCain announced his candidacy he pretty much said he'd continue Bush's work but now that Bush has become the least popular President in our country's history McCain is saying his views are different than Bush's.

[/ the angry rant of a democrat]

it just seems like obamas in it for the publicity. His wife is already trying to get her own show.....

Unfortunately I'm not one of the 5% of Americans that would benefit an administration around McCain.
I'm one of those humanitarians that has to face reality and come to grips with the way our current administration has been stripping our country bare while basking in the glow of the ignorance that stands by and wonders why we have become what we have become.

For those with a conscience and compassion for his/her fellow man here and abroad, the extreme need for change could not be more evident.

Many Americans cried 8 years ago. Not disappointed, not upset, CRIED. Why? Because they could see clearly what was ahead. Those that cried (myself included), are probably the only ones that are not surprised of what our last 8 years held for us(US citizen).

How can a peson that voted for Bush, now disclaim him. He has spent the last 8 years doing exactly what I and every conscious American expected.

Those that are still lost or profiting from actions of our current administration are eager to put in McCain.
Those with a desire for a just transparent country to truly be proud of, see a DESPERATE need for a DC cleansing.

Sorry for the rambling.
Obama may not make it, but it is a sign that good is still out there and knocking on the door.

if you all wanna get lower gas prices drill in effing ALASKA

quote:

Originally posted by twadesayswhat:
if you all wanna get lower gas prices drill in effing ALASKA

And destroy a wildlife refuge? Remember, every coin has two sides.

LOL, if a moderator posts on this thread and doesn't want to lock it, that's cool with me too.

For lower gas prices, I don't have a solution, but to get out of a situation where you can barely afford the price of gasoline, just get a Toyota Prius.

McCain,
Besides being a "Mc", which is good enough for me, he has served his country and experienced more then any president in the past. That experience might not have been with the economy but no president is gonna be able to turn a 180 on this in 4 years. The iraq in 100 years bit is way overblown by the press and taken way out of context. The bomb bomb iran was just funny as heck and when nations threaten our allies then we have the responsible to deal with it and not sit idly by.

Ron Paul Pwns McCain....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrXzE7r7SMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpVcB5vdMg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fl6gCcG0ntg

quote:

Originally posted by twadesayswhat:
if you all wanna get lower gas prices drill in effing ALASKA

We'd have gas for maybe 10 years at best and we'd completely destroy one of the only areas left on the planet not molested by human industry. Not worth it IMO, more oil will only cause people to continue their wasteful ways.

I have no sympathy for those people driving around in SUVs or pick-up trucks when they complain about the gas prices. I have a ton of sympathy for those in small sedans and compacts that can barely afford gas for their cars, at least those people are TRYING to conserve gas and are being punished by the SUV boom a few years ago that used up a crap load of gas that we'd still have available to keep prices down.

Once oil is gone its gone, no matter of drilling will ever bring back 2 or even 3 dollar a gallon gas, at this point we have to play a game of stoping the harm and not a game of how much more harm can we cause before we are forced to stop.

quote:

Originally posted by bharlan2002:

quote:

Originally posted by twadesayswhat:
if you all wanna get lower gas prices drill in effing ALASKA

We'd have gas for maybe 10 years at best and we'd completely destroy one of the only areas left on the planet not molested by human industry. Not worth it IMO, more oil will only cause people to continue their wasteful ways.

I have no sympathy for those people driving around in SUVs or pick-up trucks when they complain about the gas prices. I have a ton of sympathy for those in small sedans and compacts that can barely afford gas for their cars, at least those people are TRYING to conserve gas and are being punished by the SUV boom a few years ago that used up a crap load of gas that we'd still have available to keep prices down.

Once oil is gone its gone, no matter of drilling will ever bring back 2 or even 3 dollar a gallon gas, at this point we have to play a game of stoping the harm and not a game of how much more harm can we cause before we are forced to stop.

ok i have a question for you my dad drives a 1996 ford clubwagon 3 ton he gets 9 miles to the gallon at best but he needs it for his job he cant get anything smaller cause he is a custom home carpenter and on average has about 2 tons of tools and a half ton of lumber in his van everyday not what the hell is he supossed to do? he cant drive no god damn prius and we cant afford a newer van and that at best would only get 12/13 miles a gallon

quote:

Originally posted by silentstriderm:

quote:

Originally posted by twadesayswhat:
if you all wanna get lower gas prices drill in effing ALASKA

And destroy a wildlife refuge? Remember, every coin has two sides.

i dont give a damn bout any dumb elk up there they need to get smart or die alright sh!t ppl before effing animals

quote:

Originally posted by twadesayswhat:
i dont give a damn bout any dumb elk up there they need to get smart or die alright sh!t ppl before effing animals

Well then I'm glad you aren't in a position of political power. Drilling for oil in Alaska won't do much to help with the price of gas, and the cost just isn't worth it.

But then again, maybe you should try writing a letter to your senator stating that we shouldn't care about any animals because they aren't smart enough to fight back against humans. If only the cold war was fought between America and the wildlife of Alaska, we wouldn't be having this conversation! Good luck getting a badger to agree to dismantle its nuclear arms, that's all I'm saying.

twadesayswhat wrote :

quote:

ok i have a question for you my dad drives a 1996 ford clubwagon 3 ton he gets 9 miles to the gallon at best but he needs it for his job he cant get anything smaller cause he is a custom home carpenter and on average has about 2 tons of tools and a half ton of lumber in his van everyday not what the hell is he supossed to do? he cant drive no god damn prius and we cant afford a newer van and that at best would only get 12/13 miles a gallon

I'm pretty sure bharlan2002 wasnt refering to regular Commercial vehichles used for legitimate buisiness reasons, probably more like the dunder heads you see driving around by themselves on a daily basis in bloated Suvs that seat 7 or more people and get 12 MPG or less, This is equivalent to heating or cooling your home with all the windows open... A waste .

People need to quit being so arrogant and realize that oil isnt an unlimited resource, we need to think about future generations.

Just my .02

lol there is no way i could possibly drive a little prius on the dirt roads that i drive on. Has to be a truck. Not to mention when a hurricane hits and the roads are flooded am i gonna float to the shelter in a prius? I think not... although they did make a fancy little tahoe hybrid, but the hybrid part doesnt work unless you are going under 25, and i live out in the country so i always have to go over 25, making it pointless....

There is a group called Code Pink that avers that WW2 is unjust too. Those women are really loony.

If you want to lose more of your paycheck to taxes along with the high gas prices, elect Obama. If you wish to have the US attacked again, then elect Obama.

I think we should have gone after Bin Laden no matter where he went honestly. I think we should stop looking the other way when our "friends" treat others inhumanely or half their population as second class citizens, but most of all, I don't think we should take any garbage from anyone. Want US aid? Maybe it's time to take a look at how you treat your countrymen. Otherwise, we let you revel in your misery.

If you really want to guage how the some feel about the President, watch the Marines as President Bush gets off Marine One (the helicopter). They face inwards so that they face him as they pass between them. Then look at ones of Bill Clinton. They faced in the direction he was moving. That tells one lots.

Obama can't even put his hand over his heart or face the flag (he actually faced the band) when the Star Spangled Banner is played (your supposed to face the flag or the direction of the flag if you can't see it). Yeah, he is Presidential material.

Moved to Off-Topic

Wow, don't get me started, LMAO!

Some of the things I've read on here just makes me shake my head in shame that I share the same species as some of you people...

Woohooo!! I like the heat in this thread!

Oil may not be unlimited, but there are more places to get this than the Middle East. Try Russia or Mexico, even Alaska. You need only look toward the gas companies; BP, Sunoco, Mobile, etc. They are the people buying the oil and marking it up, not Bush. They call these things Natural Resources for a reason. Oil isn't a baseball card, it isn't collectable.
Want to save some for your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grand children. Put some in a jar and put it in a time capsule. The demand will be virtually non existent in 50 more years anyway w/ the Hybrids, Hydrogen, and Turbine engines.
The war in Pakistan was text-book. Go in, kick ***, change regime, support the new regime. It would have been nice to get Bin Laden, and some day we may. If I blow up your office, how effective are you going to be at your job? I'm confident that Pakistan is no longer a safe haven for terrorists so we can chalk that up to a job well-done.
I'll echo my ealier reasons for supporting the war in Iraq. The lack of enforcement from the UN and NATO combined w/ the lack of cooperation from Hussein was justification enough. It doesn't matter whether we found WMDs or not. The underlying fact is that Hussein would not grant access to the facilities for inspection. Once we were in Pakistan, Iraq kicked everyone out and said no more inspections. Sure looks suspicious to me. After what happened on 9/11, we weren't taking any chances. For a nation to be so anti-USA, have the means to deliver chemical or nuclear weapons, and refuse UN inspection teams, they certainly didn't do much to prevent this themselves.

So, you want to elect Obama/Clinton. Let's "Bring 'em Home". Get all of our forces out of Iraq in the next 6 months. Then what, you have an entire nation w/ no government, no controll and above all else, even more hate toward the US for leaving them high and dry. I don't think I'd feel any safer knowing we just hung a country and its people out to dry. Especially when this country has the money to build/buy ICBMs and could show their animosity. What's at risk for them anyway? They'll get a bomb out to us, we'll invade and take over, they'll suck it up for 5 or 10 years again until we put some spineless puss in the White House. Or better yet, they'll close their door to Oil export which will drive global oil prices up and... wait a second, that's already happening...

My cars:
2006 GMC Sonoma Z71 extended cab (Daily Driver, I drive it to my office 30 miles and back every day)
2000 Chevy Camaro Z28, N2O injection, 30mpg / 10.5 qtr mile
1973 Pontiac Firebird, Corp 350 w/ 400 trans, 11mpg
1978 Chevy Camaro Z28, Corp 350/350 12 mpg.
1993 Jeep Wrangler Corp 350/350 swap, 7mpg.
1996 Honda Passport, 12 mpg. (Ol' lady's DD)

I drive 'em all w/ 93 octaine gass or better. Oh, yeah, I cut 8 big a$$ trees down to make by driveway/garage big enough.