Why are all the german vehicles, tanks etc, in the game grey? It really bugs me and seems a shame when alot of other stuff in the game seems pretty accurate and well researched. Im sure that in '44 most German vehicles were painted sand yellow as a base colour, possibly with different brown/green camo patterns sprayed on depending on which theatre they were operating in. And most probably covered in foliage in Normandy to cover from allied air power. Its like a step back to lazily researched 60's war films!

quote:

Originally posted by dead_celeb:
Why are all the german vehicles, tanks etc, in the game grey? It really bugs me and seems a shame when alot of other stuff in the game seems pretty accurate and well researched. Im sure that in '44 most German vehicles were painted sand yellow as a base colour, possibly with different brown/green camo patterns sprayed on depending on which theatre they were operating in. And most probably covered in foliage in Normandy to cover from allied air power. Its like a step back to lazily researched 60's war films!

I think with technical limits, Gearbox probably wanted to keep the tanks basic looking so it can run easily on the X-Box. As for the paint job, most remaining "museum" German tanks are grey (as far as I've seen), and Gearbox used museums to make their game, plus I think that alot of the tanks in Normandy were new into service, and not modified much (i.e. a camo paint job).

I don't now.Most of the tanks in Normandy were the same as in the previously battles.Some of them had bin changed alot like the Panzer type IV.The germans reinforced the tank with extra armour and lenghts of track.And the realisum of the game is very god its the best for now i love Brothers in Arms.But yes the germans painted there tanks in sand-yellow and in some of them were green and grey and even brown.


"We happy few we band of brothers/For he today that sheds his blood with me/Shall be my brother."- William Shakespeare King Henry V

It's one of BiA's little historical "faults", and it's all the more strange since they claim to stick so closely to history. Well, they're not entirely incorrect, however by june '44 most german vehicles encountered by the allies on the western front would've been sand yellow or camoed.

From early 1943 all vehicles left the factories in the new color "dunkelgelb" (dark yellow, a khaki-like color) and the troops received olive green and a red brown color to camouflage their vehicles. The thought was that the troops were better to camouflage their vehicles themselves acccording to the environment they operated in.

Later on, some factory painted camo jobs appeared, like the so-called "ambush" scheme...

Lets not forget the fact that it is a StuG B that you encounter. The game isn't very "historically" accurate imo.

Apart from the color, the types are (often, if not always) incorrect.
The material faced by the paratroopers was old french material (Hotchkisses, Renaults, CharB1 Bis and Somua tanks)and french based tankdestroyers. The German material faced were several types of Sturmgeschütze (III and IV, all with long barrels) and PzIII's.
NO PzIV's! There's no evidence of those and the units engaged did not have them. Only 2SS had these vehicle in the area, but that was around July 4th and at La Haye du Puits (82AB terrain).

I like these games very much, but the developers should pay more attention to details like this. It's quite a lot different if you encounter a old Renault tank or a PzIV. The information. This information also isn´t difficult to find it just takes some one to look it up or to cunsult the right people. All could be done on the internet in almost no time at all... And get those d*mn tank colors right. Hollywood has tried to get away with grey for decades. A game like this can do better!

agree agree and yes,
remember falshimjagers where able to call in the armor of the panzers those where the stug 3 nd 4 inproved version [grandfather was gunner].
in normandy the second ss division where their, in the region so the where a good fight at hand hand if annything hapend.
My grandfather recals a fight with 17 shermans and 3 stuarts,He said to me.The shermans where no problem but the stuart where a real problem, They were able to drive and turn faster than i can shoot and always seemd!the where wich a greater number than in real.
Our real fear where airplanes,whe always drove at night to avoid airplanes or bombers
.CAMOUFLAFE.
What he has learned at the russian front was no bull-**** so stugs and panzer 4 and tigers 1 always used spare tracks in the front upper and side of the stug or panzer,about those camouflage in brothers in arms he has seen it and was not verry happy about it,but remember not all units where told to use camoflage if told.some units where still ussing panzer gray at the end of the war.
What the real probleam was for stugs where infantrie.U can stand next to a sug without being seen and shot at its blind at close rand in the flanks so the inventid! schutzen for panzerfaust and hollow shells the where also used for threes moving and personnel carrings
remember its not real big inside of a stug4 or panzer 4.
.Sparetacks.
in the stug manual the are a few not so happy words.By attacking infantry alwas remember the are smaller than u are, and if attack by piats or bazooka alway cary infantry or run then over with your tank.

.off the shelve.
new armor allways arived to late or [like in russia]never so they had to treat your machine like your girlfriend if encounterd a tank wreck [normall! a sherman or churchill] stip it off any still good parts tracks spare tracks petrol repair parts or machine guns where ussual,so any machine never looked the same.
I HOPE THIS IS GOOD INFO....tiki

does anyone know if hte are HUMMELS WESPE NASHORN or anthing els what the kraut can trow at you.thank you

Hi Tiki, sounds interesting. What unit(s) was your grandfather with and were did they fight?

Schürzen/skirts were not invented to defend against hollow-charge projectiles, but against russian at-rifles. Those could penetrate the (lower) hull sides of tanks. The skirts disabled this thread. The hollowcharge problem came later and the skirts helped out on that part too.

I don't really understand your question on the Hummel/Wespe/Nashorns. What do you mean exactly? Nashorns were not used in Normandy. Wespes and Hummels were but those are mobile artilery, not tankhunters like the Nashorn.

My grand father was issued for was [left of it] 2ss panzer group,He never said wat for group its orriginaly was, but he served in the first part in africa,the in Russian front,Then his unit[not a group ] where send every where to stop american and brittish units.
He remmenbers that they start a battle with some 27/30 vehicles,the special vehicles fought with stugs,such as tigers1 and panthers.
They start doing that with a reason,his unit started with 4 panthers after the battle their was only one remaining [talk abaut bad luck].
If a tiger,panzer 4 or panther attack they never drove 2km without infantry [read that manual part] than retreat to the a line that was already defended by infantry [motrars mg42 and antitank guns]they allies always cunter atack and be trapped by the infantry,the panzers provided fire support at the americans/brittish/canadian units.
ABAUT THOSE NASHORN HUMMELS WESPE.
remenber the germans where in retreat!their is always a problem wit a reason and solution.
My grandfather is now an old man,but in the time of the battle their many unregisterd! vehicles around.
.OF THE SELVE.
the german where in dispair! at the time their solution,QUOTE.If its have a gun you can shoot with it,germany build thousands of special vehicles [some even in the field].With the wespe was somthing odd .
He remembers A wespe. its a small vehicle so its easy to hide for airplanes, tanks, and infantry so wespe crew where somtimes ordert!
to shoot at point blanc range,with great hits at the enemy,so on that espect yes artilery and, yes tank hunters at the same time.
.AFTER THE WAR.
After the war when the hell was over,and the allies started scrapping, legendary vehicles where send in the way of the melting oven, On the internet you can find internet sites abaut this item
.American scraping.
when the korean war began the u.s send not only infantry to that war,but only [then the reclassed medium m-26 pershing tank] with the AND YES 1103 reamaning!sherman tanks so many men after the war where shaving with tanks airplanes and others material junk that was availible.
.A MUSEUM ITEM.
When all was over the allies began cleaning and scrapping the battlefield in december 1945 untill its was [for army standarts clean].
the remaing vehicles where send every where and the seen in musea and/or sold as scrapp [many scappdealers where often rebuild shermans and stuart as bulldozers]
But the stug 4 off my grandfather was sold as scrape but sold again to a private collecter
wich one is still today a mistery.
So if you are the owner of a hunk a junk or a stug 4 ausfurung f with the numbers 177[painted in lightblue and black outerlining]and with the name LEA on the side of it,Then you have a stugs 4 with ace marking on the brarell you have a real gem at you possesing!
....tiki p.s [its just family]

o and yes their is somthing abaut that panzer 4 in the final part of hill 30 if you know someting of tanks when the tank comes onto the battlefield and kills kevin legget its a panzer 4 f[short barrel version]but if you completed the mission bloody gultch in the game earned in blood its a panzer4 g [mitt]midd production,they change the tank and does anyone know how its destroyed i can see no bazooka and no one is stupid to climb one it if you been shot at. If you know it post it pleace.
....tiki

You're right, mobile artillery could be used against tanks. I know for sure Wespe had anti-tank amunition, but because of the nature of the gun, only point blank range was a real option. While you can fight infantry at close ranges, troops tend to keep their artillery away from the front line, because only then they can do what those guns are good at: Take care of soft targets. You don't want to waste them fighting tank. They are much to valuable.
In emergencies this is of course different and there are pictures of a Hummel leading a column of SdKfz251's out of a pocket in Normandy. They were ambushed and completely destroyed by US forces however.
In the first months after the invasion the Germans were not in retreat. They fought well coordinated battles and were pushed slowly away from from the coast. When Cobra came things changed, but the counter attack at Mortain was still organised.

It sounds like your grandfather switched units as no SS troops fought in Africa. Any thougts what other units he fought with?

quote:

So if you are the owner of a hunk a junk or a stug 4 ausfurung f with the numbers 177[painted in lightblue and black outerlining]and with the name LEA on the side of it,Then you have a stug4 with ace marking on the barell you have a real gem at you possesing!

Were did he lose this vehicle? In Normandy or did he get it later? Sounds like a very interesting vehicle. Are there any pictures?

BTW There only was an "F" version of the StuG3, not of the StuG4. Official documents show StuG4's were only issued to 17SS in Normandy. And those records are very very good. So what did your grandfather use? Are you really sure he was in the SS, because for Normandy 2Pz (Wehrmacht) would also be an option. They used Jagdpanzer4's. That type is often refered to a an Ausf. F. Considering he fought in Africa too, the Wehrmacht seems a real possibility. If he´s sure about 2SS though, we got a bit of a mystery.

Thank you for your information. I find it very interesting.

ok ok let me get this strait.
when german units arived in Afrika they where ill prepared.
[QOUTE HITLER].On January 11 1941 I created the deutche afrika korps;for stragetic,political and psychological reason germany must help Italy in the war in North Afrika.;end quote.
Just one month later Erwin Rommel arieved in Lybia to take command,His troops poor and ill equipped soon learned the way of the use of camouflage and desert movement.
Under Rommels command,The deutche afrika cops where the only unit in the german army that where 'not charged for commiting atrocities,strickly forbiddin by their commanders'. So i think he was with the german afrika corps at that time.
.QUOTE ROMMEL.
when hitler made rommel field marchel,rommel has said to an n.c.o
IT WHOULD BE BETTER IF HE HAS SEND ME ANOTHER DIVISION.ROMEL 1891-1944

About those photos i know their where two of them,One was the stug on a single trailer of a m26 dragon wagon and the other was in a country field somewhere,stuck and deep in the mud.
Sorry, but the fotos where lost when the stug got transported and sold[to that mistery guy].

My grandfather never knew where those photos have been all those many years ago.
but he does know of the place where LEA got dissabled in around a place called in gemany ZELL AM ZEE south west i believe;.[sorry if i,m wrong]you cant blaim him ,he has been shot at with tank anti tank and machine guns and last but no least,[this is how lea got dissableld]
as he recalls;.I think it was a shell from a from a sherman tank went strait true my rear right schutzen and my engine and whent up in flame [quote grandfather, I cant sit for the folloing 6 weeks,and thats long,very long].
It was a stug 4 f[sorry if i am wrong,but he has been shooting and bullets coming at me and i was almost run over by a sherman,You cant blaim him then].
.from the beginning.
No he had lea right from the beginnig,Lea was a stug also know as a [spate] [german for late model] because she had a saukopf castlet, [saukopf is german for pigs face].
sorry if i am wrong with the ausfurung f,she also may have be a g model,old memory old person

.ABOUT THAT MISTERY.
When he joined hitlers army in the summer of 1938 he was send to a panzer school in the area of the south of germany near luxenburg,His training panzer was a panzer2 and he completed the school with no problems,in the year 1940 arround febuary only to be activated! 3 months later for the invasion of polen.

Yes just like in russia stugs attacks well planed and well thought against the enemy
and so decreasing any cassualtees!
however after the batle at kursk and the way stugs where made germany had more stugs ,so 14 procent more than before the batlle
and so the stugs where the most seen german vehicle toghther with the sdkrfz 251 halftrack

.and yes he switch units mutible times.

.i hoped i could help....tiki

What really bothers me is the fact that it takes at least four shots from a Panzerfaust 60 to destroy the Panzerkampfwagen IV ausf F1. In reality one hit from a panzerfaust almost anywhere on the panzer would have resulted in immediate destruction.

Anyway, the Panzerkampfwagen IV ausf F1 was produced in 1942. By June 1944 all surviving F1s would have been upgraded to at least ausf G stats, (up gunned with the KwK 40 L43, or the later Kwk 40 L48), painted dark yellow and had shürzen fitted to the turret.

The Germans would routinely pull their panzers back from the frontlines for scheduled maintenance (not all at once mind your!). During this period the panzers would be overhauled and receive all the newest upgrades available. Then they would be sent back to the front.

By 1944 the only surviving ausf F1s still in their original configuration had either been captured by the British in North Africa or the Russians on the Eastern Front.

quote:

Originally posted by Hullebullen:
It's one of BiA's little historical "faults", and it's all the more strange since they claim to stick so closely to history. Well, they're not entirely incorrect, however by june '44 most german vehicles encountered by the allies on the western front would've been sand yellow or camoed.

From early 1943 all vehicles left the factories in the new color "dunkelgelb" (dark yellow, a khaki-like color) and the troops received olive green and a red brown color to camouflage their vehicles. The thought was that the troops were better to camouflage their vehicles themselves acccording to the environment they operated in.

Yes but just to add to this,by nov '44 the sand yellow base colour was replaced with a dark forrest green for the transition into a different environment

i think there where more common in the waffen ss to paint them. i think they got paint for re-painting their vheicles for every season.

quote:

Originally posted by pz.grenadier:
i think there where more common in the waffen ss to paint them. i think they got paint for re-painting their vheicles for every season.

they did. the vehicle left the factory in 1943 in 'Panzer gelb' tank Yellow. and some seasons the paint was differant then other seasons.