What do you fellow gamers think about the lack of research on German uniforms in WWII games like BiA, MoH and CoD? As a WWII re-enactor (German) and a novice historian I am frustrated by these anomalies.
I have harped on some of the things in other posts but tonight while playing the single player I noticed on the so called Panzergrenadiers are completely wrong. They wear Heer uniforms under Waffen-SS pattern camouflage smocks and have Waffen-SS camouflage helmet covers on their helmets. What’s up with that?
I think that the game designers take most us for idiots. If they were worried about offending people by using the correct insignia (SS Runes) on these character skins then why bother to have an M+ rating for the language? I really do not think that whitewashing history for the sake of being politically correct enhances the game or properly educates any of the younger players. I would have rather they used Col. Klink's Luftwaffe camp guards as character skins versus these unrealistic Heer/SS Panzergrenadiers skins that they whipped up to appease little Johnnies natzee camouflage fantasy. This game is starting to look more and more like a bad re-enactment with loads of farbs in attendance. Just when I thought it was safe to go back into the trenches too.
“Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat itâ€Â
Well I am one of those idiots. But I find no offence in anyone having an ss insignia. If I were Jewish I would only feel better when I kicked there Kraut butts.
I could never find all unaccuracies but I was wondering what happened what the black panzergrenadier uniforms. I think it will take years untill some game will finally be accurate on uniforms.
The only black uniforms worn in WWII Germany were either SS dress uniforms or Heer, Luftwaffe (HG Division) and Waffen-SS panzer (tank) crew uniforms. Panzergrenadier's were armoured infantry that escorted tanks and other mechanized vehicles into battle. They could also be used in an infantry role. Most people did not know that assault gun crews i.e. Stug, Wespe or Jagdpanther crews usually wore felgrau or camoflage uniforms and not the stereotypical black uniforms that Hollyweird uses. Some of the Waffen SS tank crews actually got issued black leather U-Boot uniforms towards the end of the war.
I think too many people think that these guys must have all looked like Darth Vader without a cape most of the time.
If your interested in teriod there are tons of good books out there.
Dazzle is right. I would think that anyone that has a real hatred for Nazis would make the kill only sweeter for them if they were wearing the correct uniforms.
quote:Originally posted by Ustuf_Hannemann: Most people did not know that assault gun crews i.e. Stug, Wespe or Jagdpanther crews usually wore felgrau or camoflage uniforms and not the stereotypical black uniforms that Hollyweird uses. Some of the Waffen SS tank crews actually got issued black leather U-Boot uniforms towards the end of the war.
while it is true that stug/assault gun crews wore the grey panzer uniforms [wide lapelled] it is also true that late war panzser crews began wearing cheap italian made cotton camo uniforms as well as other types. it became a very mixed bag as supplies became erratic. panzer crews often would man an asault gun simply because there were no panzers for them. also, the Uboat leather kits were worn by units of 12th SS hitlerjugend Pz Regt who commandeered the supplies in transit. these same leather clad tank crews painted their girlfriends' names over the tank camouflage of their PzIVH and Js. young men... barely kids, really. i think this was the only instance of tank crews wearing leather kit.
Well think of this ITS ONLY A GAME NOT A HISTROY LESSON NOONE CARES KILLER, if I catch you flamming or by-passing the forum filters anymore, your going to be out of here for a while.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Firefight700,
I know I'm a little late in replying to this, but I think the reason for the lack of correct insignia is quite simple... This is actually quite common in many WW2 games. Not because they didn't do their research and just got it wrong (well, sometimes it is). It's because of the laws in Germany. You can not include a swastika or SS runes in any game sold in Germany. So, rather than create different editions of the game, they just leave them out all together.
Personally, I think it's dumb and would prefer games to be as accurate as possible.
quote:Originally posted by Ustuf_Hannemann: Greenlionhaert,
The only black uniforms worn in WWII Germany were either SS dress uniforms or Heer, Luftwaffe (HG Division) and Waffen-SS panzer (tank) crew uniforms. Panzergrenadier's were armoured infantry that escorted tanks and other mechanized vehicles into battle. They could also be used in an infantry role. Most people did not know that assault gun crews i.e. Stug, Wespe or Jagdpanther crews usually wore felgrau or camoflage uniforms and not the stereotypical black uniforms that Hollyweird uses. Some of the Waffen SS tank crews actually got issued black leather U-Boot uniforms towards the end of the war.
I think too many people think that these guys must have all looked like Darth Vader without a cape most of the time.
If your interested in teriod there are tons of good books out there.
Dazzle is right. I would think that anyone that has a real hatred for Nazis would make the kill only sweeter for them if they were wearing the correct uniforms.
I feel stupid mixing up panzergrenadier -and waffen ss-tank-crew uniforms. How stupid, I'm gettering information for about 5 years and still I'm that stupid to mix it up
Its just that the swatstika (the ss symbol you're talking about) is extremely offensive to some people, especially Jews, obviously because of what the Nazis did to them.. because of this Gearbox clearly would have gotten into serious trouble if they did put the symbol in. Like Red Dog said, its against the law to show the swatstika in Germany. don't worry, someone will surely create a BiA Mod sometime.
that's stupid ...they cutted the *really* bad symbols out...thats stupid..its german history basta...they cant hide them lol!The game is only for people over 17 or 18 in other countrys...in those games they can show the symbols i think. Sry but Swatstika is not so extremely offensive for Jews in our days...ok in 1940 it was but today when they see it in a GAME.... oh my good pls...
I think the governements mix's some things up! Sinbgleplayer means you fight as an American against germans. This would allow the designers to let the germs wear the porper symbols. It doesn't provocate anything because you are an airborn, not the SS who got killed! In Mulitplayer it is different! Pro-Nazi's could use these symbols to provocate that they are pro's. When deleting the symbols in MP it can be played as an ordinary "germs VS Ami's"-game. The symbols are forbidden so that nobody could ever wear these. But in singleplayer you don't wear them at all! So you can leave them in there.
conclusion: Only the MP has to be cleaned from NAZI -and SS symbols.
No i think in mp its ok too.... in war it was so and i know that normal soldiers..(SS-Soldiers were normal soldiers too....)did not have the Hakenkreuz on the uniforms.high officers had sometimes the Hakenkreuz as an armlet or something but not the normal soldier.And flags i think are ok too...it was so and not differently....
I tend to agree with our East-German colleague (just a guess), and everyone else who advocates the use of the proper insignia. While the use of the swastika might be a stretch, I don't see a problem with the use of the SS runes or the SS/Herr panzer div. totenkopf. BIA's solution of putting the SS panzergrenadiers in Waffen SS style camo smocks was a good compromise. Especially considering that most camo smocks didn't have collar insignia or the national eagle.
I do have a problem with the panzer uniforms, in that they have a Waffen SS sleeve eagle and Heer collar tabs.
I don't think that having a European version, with the offending insignia removed, would be a bad idea. It wouldn't be too tough to create an alternate set of skins.
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