The forum is dying, no one ever talks anymore except for the "Experienced Pros", like Joe90 and Blackace.

How can we get the forum's spirit back? When I first started viewing this forum, it was really populated with movies coming out every day but it seems like everything died.

I hope we can get our filming spirits back somehow.

S!

Its not just this forum , everywhere apart from the modding sites are a bit dead at the moment , in the year or so that ive bin browsing the Il2 sites they all seem to go through periods of not much interest and then they pick up again , thats probably whats happening here at the moment , as for me Im workin on three movies at the moment one of which is an Il2 movie which I hope to release here before Xmas along with a very big yarn about my production process for "Eagles" , "September"...ect.

Sure is quiet, Giaplev!

There is still some movie making activity going on. Good to here Jafa is still on it, I know others who have projects on the go or planned, I'm still experimenting with IL2/Moviestorm and of course don't forget Mysticuma's Checkertails which has the makings of being another one of the major releases of all IL2 time.

What we have lost is the influx of new movie makers. I don't know why this is. I would love to hear from any of you who have thought about it, and why you didn't go on to develop your thoughts.

There must be plenty of talented movie makers in the community. It's a statistical fact! Why don't you take up the hobby? That's not a whine; it's a genuine desire to know.

Is the bar too high? Is the craft too time consuming? Are there no new ideas (I don't believe that)?

On the other hand, what is it that started the old hands in the craft? For me, it was a long held interest in movie making and photography that wasn't going anywhere. Then I started playing IL2 and the clincher was watching Requiem. I was hooked at that point, made some really, REALLY awful noob movies, then with support and advice from this community it all got better and better and has been one of the most rewarding activities I've ever taken part in.

I would love to hear what has inspired, or discouraged, others?

This forum had previously gone very dormant late last year and on through the Winter and into the Spring of this year.

At Biltongbru's suggestion, we held the IL2 Movie competition from April through August. There was significant interest, by competitors and observors alike. Partially as a result of the attention generated by the Competition, this Forum's level of activity increased considerably for a while.

It has, as noted, gone dormant again. The bar is, admittedly, very high....the great movie makers, among them Mystic Puma, Monty Dan, Joe_90, and a half dozen others (my apologies to others not named) produce remarkable movies. BUT...there is room for newcomers who can produce even a very simple 4-6 minute movie. If they have a story idea and employ the basic techniques spelled out in the readily available tutorials, and avoid the blatant pitfalls (visible logos, icons, manual panning, etc), their movie products will be well received here at this forum (and elsewhere)and expert help/advice/discussion will be forthcoming.

I think we should specifically encourage movies using the new, fantastic MODs. (I'll make a post over at the AAA site encouraging same. That forum is quite active) Those movie-makers of the past who may have gotten burned out, or bored by repetition, might perhaps return just to make some short movies displaying unique Mods....maps, sounds, cockpits, smoke/explosion FX, etc... The bottomline is that the community will benefit from, and enjoy, a fresh batch of short movies...we don't need to wait for only the bar-raising 20 minute spectaculars.

I'd even like to see some new BofB movies using the new UK maps which have very distinctively realistic looking terrain, etc...Just a hint of a story coupled with that terrain will go a long way.

Ghost town yes but the ghosts are still around!lol

I think we must start to think for next year's competition or shall we call it a film festival?

It will be good in the mean time to debate about the competition we had: what worked well and what aspects do we have to improve for next year?

I will kick off with my opinion:

The admin, organizing, marketing, presentation and especially the competition web site were fantastic!

The voting system caused good participation but I sensed that many votes were cast on the grounds of loyalty to a friend or squadron colleague or popular web site personality and not necessary on the merit of the movie? So we will have to look at that.

We need maybe to have a few categories of movies? maybe 2 or 3?

Obtain better and more substantial prizes.

This is a start for a nice discussion, maybe Doolittle as chief organizer you can give us your views?

In the mean time I work on improving green screening techniques that I hope to share one day on this site. Here is a 1 min clip of a movie in the making (COD2 game engine):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JOPgimlKV8

There's no question that this year's competition was a peak in IL2 movie making! If another competition happens next year, it would be good to have a newcomer's section as well as one for the established movie makers.

By next year, Wiley, I can only imagine what stunning visuals we will have from the mods! Add to that the vastly improved in game sounds means that a good movie can be made without having to add all the SFX manually (before Falcon jumps in, lol, of course it can still be much better with extra SXF!).

Biltongbru, I love the work you are producing in the chroma key field. That flying bullet was amazing and I actually think tjhat was the first time I've ever seen that achieved with a real bullet instead of CGI. One up for you, sir! But OMG, when I saw what happened next, I was shocked but will not say more so as not to ruin it.

quote:

This forum is turning into a ghost town

For myself I was without Internet connection for more than two months.

Most of our veteran IL-2 filmmakers have been around here since 2003-04 time frame. Remember this game engine has been around since 2001, and during that time we have lost a lot of very talented filmmakers over the years. Regardless...there are so many great stories that still can still be told about our aging WW2 veterans and the battles they fought in.

quote:

There must be plenty of talented movie makers in the community. It's a statistical fact! Why don't you take up the hobby? That's not a whine; it's a genuine desire to know.

Agree Joe. There are many new IL-2 filmmakers out there...you see them at "youtube" but most these guys are still to this day making them with music tracks only and no real stories behind them. It is just easier to make couple of tracks put it together and put some music soundtrack and be done with it.

quote:

Is the bar too high? Is the craft too time consuming?

I believe to small degree that is a true statement and that the bar has been raise very high that most of the average folks out there can't fathom the idea of trying to make one and time consuming issue. Don't get me here...in order make a half way descend movie it does require some time to put it all together.

People like biltongbru, Joe-90, and others have come in with fresh ideas with green/blue screening techniques that look very promising for future IL-2/COD2 or other game engines.

For myself I need to build a new more faster computer for me to step up to the plate. My current one is 4 years old and needs a fresh blood transfusion. My future rig down the road will be liquid cooled, with a fast Core 2 Quad processor. It just a matter of time, lots of money, and settling back in Texas again.

quote:

I can only imagine what stunning visuals we will have from the mods! Add to that the vastly improved in game sounds means that a good movie can be made without having to add all the SFX manually ( before Falcon jumps in , lol, of course it can still be much better with extra SFX!).

Yep...Joe-90! Adding all the SFX sounds into a movie is indeed a lot of time consuming work...no doubt about it. I'm glad to see all these new different Mods have finally come out so we can get real sounds back in the game engine that we loved. Very true statement and it is very hard to match/add engine sounds and other ambiance SFX sounds to many different scene manually ...trust me!!


Best Regards

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 310th Falcon,

But perhaps there are allot of folk like me, who quietly enjoy the posts in the background!

quote:

Biltongbru, I love the work you are producing in the chroma key field. That flying bullet was amazing and I actually think tjhat was the first time I've ever seen that achieved with a real bullet instead of CGI.

Thank you Joe!!

I like your idea of a beginner and general category differentiation. Do you perhaps have any further ideas for next year's competition?

Be sure there will be enough interest to make it worth while, lol

I think the 2008 competition achieved its purpose, flushing out (encouraging) some new movie-makers to join the fray and simultaneously presenting some outstanding movies for the enjoyment of the FlightSim (and other) communities. Much was learned by all concerned with regard to the effective administration of a movie competition.

Administratively, it would be relatively simple to use that 2008 Competition as a template for the next one. For example, I believe BBloke could have a 2009 Comp Website up and running almost immediately. The procedures for entry submissions, ˜registration', Rules promulgation, etc are also established and very easily regenerated with only slight modifications.

One change in procedure, though, should be the judging process. I believe it would be best for the Panel of Judges to rule on both the selection of Finalists as well as the ultimate Winners of the Competition. The members of the Community (across several FlightSim Sites/Forums) should be strongly encouraged to provide comments/critiques on the movie entries at the main Competition Website and/or on the primary Forum for Competition administration (most likely the ˜Official 1C" site/forum). Such comments/critiques would provide food for thought to the judges relative to the community's (audience's) perspectives and interests, while not subjecting the judging process to any potential skewing of "Voting" results which can occur due to a variety of factors.


Possible Competition parameters:

A 5 month Competition.... 1 December 2008 through 30 April 2009.

Eligible Movies may not have been publicly released earlier than 1 December 2008. Actually we could probably just say movies not released prior to the end of the last Competition period, 15 August 2008.

Submission deadline of 13 April 2009
Community opportunity to post final comments on entries: 14-20 April
Announcement of Finalists on 23 April
Winners announced 30 April 2009

Those starting from scratch upon hearing of this new Comp (mid to late November) would have roughly 4 1/2 months to complete an entry movie....more than adequate, especially for short productions. That would also provide ample time for completion of any epic length movies currently in production.

Movie entry duration: Minimum 7 minutes, No maximum.

At a minimum, there would be two Award Categories, a Long and a Short division: 7-15 minutes for Short, minimum 15 minutes for Long with no limit in duration. This would allow entries from those who don't have the time or perseverance to produce a long movie, but also encourage the submission of longer, more advanced, complex movies as well.

Additional award categories could be established such as Novelty (a catch-all to cover comedy, horror, fanciful skinning, etc). Maybe "Special FX" and/or "Best Use of MODs". I think "Best Story" should be an Award category specifically to encourage people to have a story, the most commonly missing element in IL2 movies, in my opinion...especially in first time movie-makers' productions.

With regard to Competitors: Somehow the Competition must be ˜marketed' so as to encourage newcomers not to shy away from entering because the bar is deemed to be too high. Having a short duration category will help, but perhaps some sort of ˜amateur' or ˜newbie' caveats/awards should be emphasized/hyped.

In that regard, "Elite/Senior" class movie-makers could be defined as being those individuals who already have a movie listed at the Flight Sim Movies website which has received at least one Oleg, Gold or Silver. All other movie-makers would be referred to as something like "Junior " class. It could then be pre-established in the Rules/Awards pronouncement that there would be an award in each of the long and short categories for each class of movie-maker.


Meanwhile, as we all know, there are probably half a dozen quality movies already in production...Joe_90 has one in the works, I believe..... Mystic Puma has his long anticipated "Checkertails" movie nearing completion, I should think. Jafa has mentioned in some forums that he is also working on a couple of movies. If entered, in the "Senior/Elite" category,these movies will provide ˜meat' early on in the competition.

I am working exclusively in Moviestorm right now and have 2 films in production.

I am, and always have been, waiting for the next big game to come from Oleg, but it seems its not going to be around for quite sometime.

Ahh Hum..

Wiley, there is no point in trying to wrangle more blood out of IL2, we are all waiting for the next release. Everything that can be done using this engine has already been done to death.

Doolittle81, I think another competition is a great idea. I would certainly be interested in submitting a new movie if there was a contest and people would actually see it. But with as slow as things are right now, without a contest of some sort, I would have little motivation to put the effort into a new movie if only the handful of active forum members were to see it.
I am also on board with the adjustment of the judging. Popular vote is a good process in theory, but when it came down to it, the people who had the most views were the ones to make it to the final 5, I feel some were overlooked because of this.
RAF-Blackace, I do believe there is still more that can be done with IL-2, both from the novice and experienced movie makers. During the last movie competition, I saw a lot of new things done, I think we can expect more new things from another competition.
I had a blast making a movie for the first contest and I would be happy to contribute in setting up another in any way.

Doolittle

Your proposal for the 2009 competition sounds great!

Comments:
1) It would be good if some of the FSM members can be "released" from the judging panel to participate in the competition. What would be the ideal number of members for the Judging panel?

2) It will be great if there could be judging criteria for all the participants to know on what basis the judging will be performed for example:

Total 100 points:

Story line:
15 points

Cinematography:
35 points

Sound tracks, SFX and sound mixing:
20 points

Special effects:
10 points

Combined impression and enjoyment:
20 points

3) Do you think it would be of any use to contact the Machinima organization and ask for their support regarding their infrastructure?

quote:

Originally posted by biltongbru:
...
Comments:
1) It would be good if some of the FSM members can be "released" from the judging panel to participate in the competition.

I think the existing Governing Board of FSM should continue as the core of the Judging Panel. Any of these judges who decide to submit a Movie entry of their own will simply recuse themselves from voting in the category to which they submit. For example, if a Board member/judge submits an entry in the Long category he will, by definition, be competing for the "Senior Elite, Long Duration" Award and would not vote in that category. He would still be able to vote for "Senior Elite, Short Duration" and both "Junior, Long duration" and "Junior, Short Duration"

quote:

What would be the ideal number of members for the Judging panel?

I think 5 is the ideal number of judges, perhaps 7 if that many qualified judges can be enticed to sign up.

I would propose that we approach some respected machinima community 'experts' to join the Judging Panel. These would be those who have, to one degree or another, accepted 'Flight Sim movies/machinima' as a legitimate genre...the organizer(s) of the just completed Machinima Expo(Second Life)Festival are one source as are the MovieStorm gentlemen who have praised "Faith, Hope, and Charity" and commented favorably on the Flight Sim genre.

I would also propose that we invite Oleg Maddox, himself, to be a Judge. Barring that, a representative of his 1C Company would also be a credible Judge.

quote:

2) It will be great if there could be judging criteria for all the participants to know on what basis the judging will be performed...

I agree. I'd like to see other input on acceptable criteria from our other potential judges, or observing community members here on this forum/thread.[color:RED]I agree. I'd like to see other input on acceptable criteria from our other potential judges, or observing community members here on this forum/thread.

quote:

Do you think it would be of any use to contact the Machinima organization and ask for their support regarding their infrastructure?

Not sure to which machinima organization you are referring, nor what you mean by infrastructure support.

...

On your earlier post's point about having more rewards, I agree. I am quite confident that Maddox 1C will again offer some free games...I would hope they'ed offer four prizes, covering each of the four major categories discussed above. We also already have a leftover kitty of $25-$100USD cash, to which a few more($50+) bucks could probably be added thru donations or possibly even reinvestment of some "FH&C" profits. There are a few other possibilities for gathering donated prizes from the aforementioned machinima communities and machinima-related retail entities.

Making an IL2 movie is something I have always wanted to do, believe it or not I heard a song a year or so ago and while I was listening to the lyrics I built an IL2 movie around it in my head.

The song had nothing to do with world war II but the lyrics fit really well from a certain point of view. Anyway, I have the story, script, music, most of the camera cuts/angles in my head and even the skins sorted out (well I skin as a hobby so it's important to me lol) but what I lack is the time

I would have to learn the whole process from scratch having never made any movies before and would have to make a lot of practice movies to actually learn from them to make any sort of decent attempt at the movie I have in mind so it's not likely to happen I'm afraid.

Real life, skinning and playing the game take up so much of my time that I couldn't even begin to imagine fitting in another hobby and giving up on any other hobbies will never do lol.

I would imagine that there are quite a few people out there in the same situation with movies in their head that will never happen due to lack of time to learn the craft.

Huge respect to all you guys that make these movies for our enjoyment, the time and dedication involved is breathtaking and you deserve all the praise you get and more.