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Picture of WernherVonTrapp
Posted
I'm currently playing RFB and seem to only have sonar capabilities when submerged. As a result, I've become more heavily dependent on visual observation. My question here is concerning the game/mod engine. Does it make any difference (i.e., enhance my ability) if I use both periscopes for spotting?




"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
-Matthew: 16:26
 
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Sun December 14 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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If you're talking about personal observation, no, not at the same time. The night scope doesn't have the same magnification ability as the day scope so its inferior in daylight.
Your passive sonar is always going to be your best sensor for detecting ships, followed by SJ radar (if you have it) and Mk 1 Eyeballs last.



"Some ships are designed to sink… others require our assistance."
"We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds."
Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz, USN.
 
Posts: 449 | Registered: Fri August 14 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Pacific_Ace:
Your passive sonar is always going to be your best sensor for detecting ships, followed by SJ radar (if you have it) and Mk 1 Eyeballs last.

OH!! evil statement, how can you say something that I got 'reprimanded' for so many years ago.... Veryhappy



Forget the Garlic, Beetroot and Hardtack - Just gimme Gunz-n-Drugz
 
Posts: 2839 | Registered: Fri December 01 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Pacific_Ace:
If you're talking about personal observation, no, not at the same time. The night scope doesn't have the same magnification ability as the day scope so its inferior in daylight.
Your passive sonar is always going to be your best sensor for detecting ships, followed by SJ radar (if you have it) and Mk 1 Eyeballs last.


Passive sonar is by far the least effective search method. It isn't even close! Why?

As Admiral Eugene Fluckey explains carefully in Thunder Below, the number of targets you develop is exactly proportional to the number of square miles you can search per day.

The ostrich theory states that for safety, you should remain submerged during the day, proceeding at one or two knots and using passive sonar to develop targets. There are two fatal defects with this strategy:
  • Let's say your passive sonar range is 20 miles. At two knots, higher than you will want to sustain for 12 hours, you'll cover 24 miles per day, times a 40 mile diameter equals 480 square miles. (actually it's a little less than this because your corners are rounded) On the surface at 10 knots, with a radar with a 15 mile range, you're going 120 miles per day, times your 30 mile search diameter equals 3,600 square miles! That's 7½ times more contacts in a day. Don't like my numbers? Figure it out any way you like and the difference is ludicrous. Sonar sucks!
  • While you're hiding your head in the sand, pretending you're searching effectively (see above), what are you doing? Yes, you are burning up battery power. Suppose you get lucky. Your battery is not fully charged and you take both a speed and endurance penalty going into battle. Can't say you don't deserve it! Ostriches lose every time in every way.

Stay on the surface at all times unless your life depends on it. A submarine is a torpedo boat that has the ability to submerge once and awhile for a strictly limited time.

Run your radar 100% of the time. It gives you much more important information than it gives the enemy. He knows you're out there. You know exactly where he is, his heading and speed. Advantage you!

Run at best fuel economy speed, 9.5 to 10 knots. This charges batteries at maximum rate and keeps them at 100% for total combat readiness. Only a fool goes into battle with one hand tied behind his back.

Other than that, I agree 100% Too Happy
 
Posts: 830 | Registered: Wed July 18 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of WernherVonTrapp
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Oops, I failed to mention that I don't have radar yet. (chuckle) Yeah, I hear you on that RR. I stay mostly on the surface and only dive when necessary. Sonar detection is lousy and I was just wondering if, in addition to my watch on deck, would it add a visibility factor using 2 scopes instead of one.

@Pacific Ace: I wear glasses now so, my eyeballs are only a Mark 0.5 Profile Crying




"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
-Matthew: 16:26
 
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Sun December 14 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Wernher
When the MK. 0.5 eyeballs get tired, drop in on the sonar station and give a manual sweep.
I do this once an hour and you can pick up things the sonar man will miss and it's fun to develop
your own contacts. With a little practice and patients you can get pretty good at plotting their course,
at least good enough to get an intercept.

I've never tried the periscope watch thing, I rely on the manual sonar sweeps.
I would say that that will give you much better coverage.
You manning the sonar can hear much further than you can see, periscope or not.

Magic


 
Posts: 192 | Registered: Fri August 17 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of WernherVonTrapp
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quote:
drop in on the sonar station and give a manual sweep.
I do this once an hour and you can pick up things the sonar man will miss and it's fun to develop
your own contacts.
I have been doing that but, much less frequently than every 2 hours. It's such a pain because I have to submerge every time I want to use the passive sonar. My Tambor class sub has it's passive sonar receiver on the bridge (mid 42 now). I have to be at least 40' deep to take a listen.
Still, I have picked up a few contacts on my last patrol, doing it manually.




"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
-Matthew: 16:26
 
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Sun December 14 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Your best detection is the pc slowdown. That's the only time I dive and listen. There is no need to dive and do passive searches if you pay attention to the PC lag. Obvious, the more high end your rig is, the less pc lag there will be, so you have to pay attention to it. Once I get the lag I'll go to sonar and find the target bearing.

Having two scopes up will not give you better detection, although two men searching would give a better visual. Your sonar will have it detected long before a visual.



June, '09, July, '09
 
Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tue May 13 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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With no radar your best bet is to stay on the surface at 9.5 knots. Every 30 miles or so, submerge to periscope depth long enough to do a sweep yourself (don't let the sonar weasel do it) and immediately surface for another 30 miles. That way your batteries stay 100% charged.

And watch the TC when you're on the surface with no radar. If you're at 256x and the plane appears you'll probably live. 512 or higher and play taps.....underwater. Too Happy
 
Posts: 830 | Registered: Wed July 18 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Oh good lord RR where in my post did I EVER suggest he stay down all day? Ohh I didn't. You are so irritating. Give me (and Wernher) a little credit, huh?



"Some ships are designed to sink… others require our assistance."
"We shall never forget that it was our submarines that held the lines against the enemy while our fleets replaced losses and repaired wounds."
Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz, USN.
 
Posts: 449 | Registered: Fri August 14 2009Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of WernherVonTrapp
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quote:
512 or higher and play taps.....underwater.
VeryhappyTried that already, bugle only made a high pitched gurgling sound. Wink




"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
-Matthew: 16:26
 
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Sun December 14 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Pacific_Ace:
Oh good lord RR where in my post did I EVER suggest he stay down all day? Ohh I didn't. You are so irritating. Give me (and Wernher) a little credit, huh?

Veryhappy
Now you understand my post above... and contrary to what's mentioned, Passive sonar is still the best offensive weapon.. It's just that some have not learn't to use it properly yet.. We'll forgive them though. Big Grin

Oh! by the way... I DO stay down ALL day, when in the danger zone. Wink

Some interesting links...
Radar ranges
Sonar stuff



Forget the Garlic, Beetroot and Hardtack - Just gimme Gunz-n-Drugz
 
Posts: 2839 | Registered: Fri December 01 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Another 'funny' note if you will..

When flying choppers, I was quiet happy dropping vertically from around 500-1000ft to levelling off amongst the bushes... My wife (28 yrs) says my problem is that I have no fear, which I agree with - but my fear is calculated, as I play SH4, and the very reasons why I challenge and beat RR's Fluckley stories hand down. This same thing applies to IL2 when I can fly the FW190 in ways that most can only dream of - Why - because I can Big Grin

I do have fear but it has nothing to do with my life, nor has it any religious connotations.
So you will not find me on my knees for 'anything', but you'll find me elsewhere standing tall.

so say, so say
Cool



Forget the Garlic, Beetroot and Hardtack - Just gimme Gunz-n-Drugz
 
Posts: 2839 | Registered: Fri December 01 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I never have a problem getting killed using higher TC playing 1.7. I won't go real high, but around 2000 in enemy territory.

Now 1.8, you can get killed quickly with TC



June, '09, July, '09
 
Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tue May 13 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I rarely go above 256x in the danger zone.
This is an old fix from SH3... SH4 uses the same engine.
Wink



Forget the Garlic, Beetroot and Hardtack - Just gimme Gunz-n-Drugz
 
Posts: 2839 | Registered: Fri December 01 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of WernherVonTrapp
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BTW, thanks to everyone for the 256x tip. It's a change (from stock) that I wasn't familiar with. I adhere "faithfully" to it now. Big Grin Wink




"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
-Matthew: 16:26
 
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Sun December 14 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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I was 'well oiled' that night , but it's a pleasure providing the 256x tip to a comrade... Big Grin
Thumbs Up



Forget the Garlic, Beetroot and Hardtack - Just gimme Gunz-n-Drugz
 
Posts: 2839 | Registered: Fri December 01 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of WernherVonTrapp
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quote:
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
I was 'well oiled' that night , but it's a pleasure providing the 256x tip to a comrade... Big Grin
Thumbs Up
Veryhappy "Well oiled".




"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?"
-Matthew: 16:26
 
Posts: 1281 | Registered: Sun December 14 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Ducimus_Rapax
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quote:
My question here is concerning the game/mod engine. Does it make any difference (i.e., enhance my ability) if I use both periscopes for spotting?


The game treats your periscopes as part of the watch crew, but otherwise, no.



For me, burnout is always one step away.
 
Posts: 2125 | Registered: Mon May 21 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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