the way people talk about it you'd think it was the us's answer the the wather U boat. I looked it up and found that it's as old (older in some cases, like the greyback is newer) as the tambor and porpoise. So I ask, what so special about a sub built in the late 30's? By all rights the balao should be a superior sub.

@Starforce3;

Give this thread a read: ....I think it will explain the situation fairly well.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/7171050335/p/1

If you still have questions, ...feel free to ask!

klcarroll

Well that was interesting. Hopefully someone will release a standalone 1.4 mod that includes this sub. I'd defenetly like to try those 6 inch guns out on...well..anything..pitty we can't inflict visable damage on land targets.

quote:

I'd defenetly like to try those 6 inch guns out on...well..anything..pitty we can't inflict visable damage on land targets.

I'm with you 100% on that!!

Both Sh3 and SH4 show us shore emplacements that are apparently real threats to us: (..at least as far as the game “AI” is concerned) ...it's a real pity that we continue to be prevented from shooting back!

It was always my aspiration to try one of the Narwhal class boats out on the sort of cruise that they were actually designed for: ...Solo, Long range, commerce raiding! All of the little krap that the Japanese loved to use in inter-island duty should be "One Shot kills" for a six inch gun.

You are, of course, correct when you say that the Narwhal Class isn't the "Latest and Best" class available: ....At least for me, it's appeal lies in some of it's unique features; ....Much like the S-Boat.

The S-Boats have developed a real following in the game because of their character, and some of the interesting challenges they present: ...not because they were the "Latest and Best"! (Just look at some of the posts concerning the S-Boats!)

I am absolutely convinced that many people would feel the same way about the Narwhal Class; ....If they were only given the chance!

I mean, ..let’s face it! ….As brilliant as SH4 is, it is mainly populated by “Almost-the-Same” boat classes!! ……A little variety would be a “good thing”!!!!

klcarroll

you can't fire on shore bunkers? Not that I've ever had any luck seeing the darn things at any range.

No, .....You can bang away all day long, ...and nothing happens!

klcarroll

quote:

.Solo, Long range, commerce raiding! All of the little krap that the Japanese loved to use in inter-island duty should be "One Shot kills" for a six inch gun

Seconded! A well aimed waterline shot into a fuel bunker or an engine room with a six inch? - BUH BYE!

Point well sold! Our problem right now is the dearth of good 3d modelers in SH4 modding circles. But the right guy will come along and we will have our Narwhals. SH3 has to run out of gas sometime....doesn't it?

It's too bad Ubi didn't beef up SH3 to SH4 graphical standards and have two flagship sub sims. There's a lot of energy going into the U-Boat end of SH4 and that overshadows the great work being done on fleet boats by a lot of good modders. I'm afraid that U-Boats being the new and glamorous thing, our fleet boats will take a back seat for awhile. We're just short of the 3d modders needed to do a great Narwhal.

Stay tuned. That will change and we'll enjoy the U-Boat stuff in the meantime!

Question: is the six inch really that much more powerful than the 5"? Sinking a medium sized merchie with a 5" took 80 to 150 rounds and a half hour of plugging away while lolly-gagging on the surface waiting to be plastered by air patrols. One shot kills seems improbable.

80-150 rounds to sink a merchie? How bad a shot were ya? I typicly sink 5 of them, some as large as huge euro liners with the deck gun and I don't need that much ammo on the 4".

quote:

Question: is the six inch really that much more powerful than the 5"? Sinking a medium sized merchie with a 5" took 80 to 150 rounds and a half hour of plugging away while lolly-gagging on the surface waiting to be plastered by air patrols. One shot kills seems improbable.

Hmmmm………, Interesting question!

Digging into my “Narwhal File”, I found the following facts regarding the 6/53 and the 5/25:

The 6/53 gun mounted by the Narwhal Class boats fired a 105 pound H.E. projectile at a Muzzle Velocity of 3000 feet per second. The maximum range for which penetration figures are published is approximately 22,000 yards.

See this link for complete technical specs:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_6-53_mk12.htm


By comparison, the 5/25 gun used on the late war Fleet Boats fired a 53 pound projectile at a muzzle velocity of 2,155 feet per second. The maximum range for the gun as installed on submarines was 14,200 yards.

See this link for complete technical specs:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-25_mk10.htm


The fact that the 6” shell is almost twice the weight of the 5” projectile is impressive, …but the most significant point here is the difference in muzzle velocities! The 6/53 was a far more potent weapon than the 5/25.

….But your comment regarding the number of rounds needed to sink a ship in SH4 does bring up some interesting questions about how deck gun performance is modeled in the game!

The destructive effect of ALL guns modeled in SH3 and SH4 seems to be seriously under-rated. A good example is the ubiquitous 20mm: Even vessels as small as 500 ton trawlers seem to be virtually immune to 20mm fire! This is absurd, …as anyone who has actually had experience with 20mm weapons knows.

This “under-rating” of gun performance seems to also extend to the 4”, 5” and 6” guns. The example sited, where a Medium Merchant absorbed 150 rounds of 5” H.E. before sinking, does not seem to reflect reality.

While I am not a “Modder”, and I do not have access to the original Developers, …I strongly suspect that the gun performance was generally attenuated in an effort to reflect the fact that submarines were typically awful gun platforms; …being unstable, low, and possessing no real tactical fire control systems.

The first two conditions certainly do not apply to the Narwhal Class boats. They were designed from the keel up to carry those guns, and possessed enough surfaced freeboard to give the gunners a good view of the tactical situation: ….And with a displacement of almost 4000 tons, they were probably more stable gun platforms than most of the DDs that were hunting them!

klcarroll

I also find it absurd as to how much fire jap aircraft can absorb. In most cases, one a japansese airplane was lit in fire, expecialy from an engine or wing, it was dead. Period. I've seen explodsions on emily's, betty's burnign from an engine and nose, and even zero's sail off into the sunset smoking. From what we know from tv documentry such as battle 360 and hostory channels "dogfights", the only planes that can take this level of punishment were the sbd dauntless, the hellcat, and the B17. (there maybe another plane or 2 here but you get the point). Certainly NOT zero's, or betty's. Not sure about Emily, don't know anything about thier combat tougness and I can't even find anything on the H6k.

Perhaps what we need is a "realistic gun performance" mod. I have no idea, personally, what a 20mm shell is. Nor a 40. I've never fired one or seen them in action upclose, so perhaps someone who has can get with a modder to adjust these.

Personaly I also find the torpedo effect to be a bit under valued. From what I've seen of actual ww2 footage of torpedo hits, pretty much anything medium size or under of merchant should fall to a single, well centered torpedo hit, as evident by their centers lifting out of the water and large peices and their cargo flying everywhere in the film. Double hull vessels, warships (IE the enterprise's torpedo blister) and other war related upgrades such as armor on a BB would require perhaps up to a full spread of direct hits to sink. I've put 4 or 5 into a BB to sink. That seems right if you get them all on one side and in multiple locations, causing the ship to list past it's tolerance. That perhaps means that the whole system of hitpoints for merchancts and/or some of the torpedos could be off (ignoring all critical hit/sensative area issues IE lucky shots). I've seen a medium tanker escape with 25 of it's hull surface area on a given side open to sea. Most ships with such sevear damage would sink, real time, as fast as the luistania or olympic.