Huh?

I haven't touched the AI in months, unless your referring to that "harder escorts" mini mod i spat out a couple weeks ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Ducimus_Rapax:
Huh?

I haven't touched the AI in months, unless your referring to that "harder escorts" mini mod i spat out a couple weeks ago.

Yea, I tried that, it's just too tough....whew.

Live the clickable dials..probably the best thing. You can actually hit del and control your boat without the icons. Took my Gar down to 590ft. When I was at 500ft, I hit the D key and it took me up instead of down with someone shouting dive. I don't see how to do a deep dive without crash dive, but using clickable dials can go deep as I want. You probably could play without icons now if you chose.

Did you change plane settings? My radar was working fine. I was on TC of about 1500...boom, by the time I got to the screen a plane put a hole in my sub big as a house. I can't remember the last time that happened when crew reports didn't work in time. Something else. During the day when at scope depth, my sub wires render bright as does other outline features...looks a little strange. Didn't have it before. I can post a SS if needed.

I barely read the readme. I would rather see what I can detect without knowing first..think it's a better way of forming an opinion on a change.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MWolfe1963,

Hahahaha Dolphin, Rare tanker

Good job Ducimus

lol....

Thanks for all the work on this mod.

Is there an easy way to adjust the eyesight of enemy AI a little bit. In reading the memoirs of WWII submariners, it seems that they were ablt to get pretty close to enemy ships during night surface attacks. This doesn't seem possible in TMO--they just see too well. Even on the darkest night, merchantmen will usually spot you before you get within range.

Not looking for an easy game. I would just like to duplicate the wartime tactics. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Moghdad:
Not looking for an easy game. I would just like to duplicate the wartime tactics. Thanks.

Don't mean to step on on Ducimus's toes here, but much like Kirk on the Enterprise, Ducimus has his own Prime Directive which might clarify why the AI is what it is in TMO...

As Rockin Robbins wrote a while back:

[QUOTE]Remember what TMO is all about. Reality is OK, as long is it is interesting. But TMO's modus operandi is great and challenging gameplay. Everything else, especially including reality, is dead meat when it comes in conflict with the prime directive. Once in awhile, as in the evil airplanes, the two coincide. I think the evil airplanes might be a little sharper-eyed than reality. But when they are in conflict, exciting gameplay must win if TMO is to stay true to its purpose. Think about it. Whenever TMO has lost its way it is because you listened to all the fools who brag about how realistic TMO is and then demand a realism change.

I'm posting all over both forums: TMO has nothing to do with realism. Just like eyecandy, realism is great, but only when not in conflict with great and challenging gameplay. If you notice, every time someone brags about TMO's realism, I'm there to sock 'em with the prime directive. TMO uses truth just like eyecandy only when it contributes to gameplay. If you find something unrealistic, just look at Ducimus' reply to my first ever post on TM. He stuffed it down my throat. Now he's a marshmallow! A damned crusty marshmallow, but still, under all that black foul-tasting crust, still a marshmallow.[QUOTE]

TMO's Prime Directive

Good Huntin'!!!

I've done my best to make night surface attacks doable. And they are, certainly much better then stock. But you have to keep your bows to the enemy and come in at like 7 to 8 kts. Roaring in at 20 kts and/or showing your broadsides is a good way to get detected.

Fog, and wind also come into play, as both reduce their maximum visual range.

quote:

Don't mean to step on on Ducimus's toes here, but much like Kirk on the Enterprise, Ducimus has his own Prime Directive which might clarify why the AI is what it is in TMO...

Don't misunderstand me. I get and respect what Ducimus is doing with TMO. And I am not asking him to change the mod. I was fishing for some hints about tweaks I might make in the config files of my own installation.

What version of TMO are you using? Night surface attacks in TMO (esp 1.7 and beyond are very doable.Much like the real skippers, you have to consider your conditions and tactical situation.

First, you must consider moonlight....half moon or less, they are pretty safe.I have pulled them off with more but it gets more risky.

Second, you must consider sea state.Heavy seas means waves which will make it easier to spot you, esp if moving.Also, targeting with TBT is difficult in heavy seas but possible.

You should also consider a combo of the two...in heavy seas and moonlight...much easier to spot.

Fourth, consider what torpedo you are firing with.With Mark 14, you can set them to slow and fire from longer distances, although wouldnt advise firing from beyond 5000 yards...chances of a hit lessen after that.Mark 18's you have to get a bit closer...I usually get around 3000 yards off the track, and only do this if its dark or a lighter escort screen, if not dark enough, may have to just shadow until daylight and go for daytime submerged attack or try for a night submerged attack.

Fifth, how many escorts? If there are escorts on the side you are attacking from, try to wait until, if it ventures off(requires some observation but they do wander off from time to time) move in at 3 knots....while its off, attack, back away slow during torpedo run, try to use rudder to turn away enough so you can got o flank after torpedos impact, you can usually run away with enough of a start and they wont even know you are there since its dark.

Sometimes, you just have to hold dead still off their track, and be ready for a crash dive in case spotted.I've had DD's come within 1000 yards of me at night and not spot me on the surface, i was dead still, they went buy and I fired at the merchants, slowly backed away.


Night surface is much more possible in TMO than in stock.I do this attack nearly every patrol, several times, its actually my preferred method but as said, depends on the conditions and situation.

Just letting you know before you mess with the settings and unintentionally make it too easy to pull these attacks off thinking its not possible now.

Thanks. I'm using TMO 1.7 with manual targeting. To have much chance of success, I'm finding that I need to get well inside 1000 yards.

I've been reading WWII submarine memoirs. I believe it was **** O'Kane who described slipping inside the escort ring and joining a slow moving Japanese convoy. He had escorts pass much closer to him than 1000 yards and went undetected. This seems unlikely to work in any version of SH4, but I'm going to give it a try.

I'm assuming the relevant parameters are in the Data\Cfg\Sim config file?

I run manual targeting and 100 realism and pull off many shots from 3-5000 yards, esp on night surface, it just takes practice, don't give up.Correct speed is critical, esp in long range shots.

I have read O Kanes books and recall him talking about blending in, even with radar equipped escorts.This was because Japanese radar was rather lackluster and they never had the PPI scope, just the A scope type with the dancing lines.In Silent Hunter 4 that is pretty much impossible to mimic as well as human vision, I did have one get about 700 yards near me on a dark night, think any closer they will see you, its a sim with computer eyes, not human.I would like to see less range on IJN radar in TMO.

After 1 October 1944 in TMO, nearly every escort has radar, only way to get around it on night surface is using hit and run moves, I have done this but its not easy.

TMO as you prob know has the APR-1 radar detector after Aug 43, itll let you know if the enemy has radar.Look at the map, if there are lines that "fade" in and out, they have radar, also the crew may report detecting radar signals but not always, so look at the map.Japanese radar range is roughly about 17,000 yards...get in and turn your stern to them, if they have radar, escorts will usually leave the convoy and pursue you, go to ahead flank and move away but to the side also....say convoy is going south, lead to the escorts off to the NW....get far enough theyll quit chasing you but USUALLY will not rejoin the convoy ASAP...so they if you stay outside their radar range, haul A** at flank speed south, catch up with the convoy, which will be moving slow by this point, usually 5 knots or less....ships may be making evasive moves but easy to hit, esp if you move in close and slow when its dark.Then haul a** out before the escorts return.This can be risky due to merchants having deck guns but sometimes you just have to due what you have to do, esp in shallow water.

I've done this several times, it works.Of course there are variables that may prevent this.If so, perhaps moving ahead and attacking at daylight submerged or night submerged with the night periscope.

There is a periscope filter mod for TMO somewhere on subsim, can add green, red or yellow filters to the night scope.Its historically accurate and makes night scope attacks possible since its easier to see your targets through the night scope at night.

quote:

I would like to see less range on IJN radar in TMO.

As i recall, i think i shaved 2000 meters off the max range in the 1.8 beta.

cool....can't wait for 1.8 final release, having fun with 1.7 for now though.

Curious, i was playing around with the traffic in the ME, made it where some convoys do not have radar equipped escorts so night surface is possible in later war, not every escort had radar. Does setting the "unit version date" to 1943...does this change it or no? I'm thinking it does since those with 10/44 dates have radar.

Tried to see if could tell when playing, one convoy i had hugging the china coast had two aux subchasers with unit date set aug 43, no radar and was able to night surface attack.

Every other convoy i've ran into has had radar, so im thinking it didnt change them or the convoys with radar are the ones that spawned and i just happen to run into.

Also made it where only one( usually the lead escort) has radar...larger more important convoys may have one or two.

So question is, does setting the unit version date back to 1943 take away radar?

Been playing 1.8.

When you say you shaved off 2000 yards, got to be in favor of the enemy.

Just started a new career on my second patrol and twice the enemy dd's are blasting me before my crew spots them, although I can see them. This is using no TC, just setting up an attack.

I can see several thousand yards before my crew doe's. Have one dd kicking my butt now. I noticed he spotted me rather far, about 9000 yards at sunset, almost dark,and started coming in. Not sure when he started blasting, but he got off three good salvos as I'm diving and crew still doesn't see him....

I was pulling surface attacks off with 1.7 at 2500 yards. Haven't pulled one off yet.

Really deadly.......not sure how realistic. I should see them before they see me some of the time.

Think he may need to readjust their visuals to 1.7 levels, esp at night, realistic as you can prob get in SH 4.Reading some of the stuff O Kane and Fluckey did at night, they got away with murder compared to what we can do in the game.

Take the SS below. Early war. I have contacts and cams on why learning 1.8.

This DD was with a convoy. He started coming my way fast at 10000 yards. I decided to turn and run. He hit me twice on the surface before I turned and even at decks awash he was blasting me...As you can see even after being hit several times, the last command my crew still couldn't see him.

Something else and not sure how to fix it. I played the last 1.8 without a problem. I loaded the newer patches and did my first patrol..no problem. Later, after the attack above I sunk a merchant and shot at a dd. When the torp hit the dd my screen went black and locked up.

What was funny, I couldn't even reboot..just kept coming back to the black locked up screen.
Thinking I may have a hardware problem. I had to use a restore disc to boot up, but once I did it worked fine.

I loaded stock game, played fine. I went back to my 1.8 setup. This time it blacked out as I tried to load the save game. Had to go through the whole process again.

Haven't tried a new game yet..will when I have time to deal with a problem.

Any idea's. Everything else is fine, drivers, ect and just running RSRD with it.

Would like to play 1.8

Ducimus, if I had time, I would because I enjoy(for some reason) putting convoys in and have put several in the campaign, esp heading to and from Truk to various places.

Just don't have the time to do at the moment...

Want to influence the direction of the mod? Here's your chance:
http://forum.kickinbak.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1836