I am in pain. I have replayed the start of the game at least 15 times. I have drawn the first icon at least 30 times. I hurt.
I have researched this in three forums. I have a dog that's longing to be played with.
Please, please share what is successful and what is not to complete drawings?
I've tried to copy the one I've seen in a w/t
and the Prima Guide.
I had to give up on Myst IV and now MV due to being unable to hold the mouse and move fast or accurately enough.
I am sure I am not alone. I start this thread as I've read so many with only one clear drawing hint....to make the "legs" shorter.
I've tried it all. What matters?
Please help those of us with unsteady and painful hands, backs, etc. We, too, want to enjoy MV.
Yes, I completed Uru so I have the skills.
Thanks for helping those of us that are finding MV painful, literally!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mszv,

Here are some ideas that may help:

* To a certain extent, aesthetics DON'T matter. For example, a symmetric, beautifully drawn circle and a squashed misshapen circle will both be recognized properly so long as one important geometric characteristic is true: both shapes are "closed". It's more important that the shape have an interior, with no connection to the exterior---not even a little gap---that it is for the shape to be artful.

* Pay attention to vertices. I don't know how sophisticated the pattern recognition algorithm is, but it may do little more than reduce what you draw to a "graph", a collection of nodes connected by edges. If this is the way it works, you may be able to produce a symbol that reduces to the same graph as the intended symbol but that is much easier for you to draw.

* The relative sizes of components in the symbol probably matters. For example, there's a symbol in Noloben that has five circles---but it won't be recognized unless they're drawn in proper proportion with respect to each other.

I hope this helps; it's still basically guesswork on your part, I'm afraid. But don't worry too much about producing a symbol that looks as nice as the one you observe in the game---I've had some pretty ugly sketches recognized by the Bahro!

Well, I have much dictionary work ahead.
You gave a very good description and I thank you.
I did want to add for others having problems
the first thing to do is to change the mouse settings if your hand is not steady.
Still, to be honest, I am still stuck.
I will look up "vertices" and such. I hope you mean "gaps," "closed" to mean what they normally mean. So I will make sure that any circle is well "closed" and no gaps between lines that might connect?
Thanks but that's exactly the type of thing I tried before many times. So "vertices" might help me? I'll find out.
I have also tried large and small for the overall figure, then just the circles and then legs. I have experimented quite thoroughly.
I still hurt and may have to just give up.
It's too bad as I never imagined that another Myst game might leave some of us unable to play or progress. And game saves, as I understand, are difficult to share.
I even took extra meds to help me. I will try to follow what you suggest but I am really sad that I can't do this more easily and that there aren't more specific directions in some thread.
I've read so many.
Okay...I am back. I tried making the three legs intersect at the top where it hits the "head" and I tried the opposite where the three lines don't touch each other making it look like some jelly fish with three legs.
I've been on this slate so much that I see a little man near the center but in the SW quadrant.
Do you see the little man?
Can you tell me what works to complete this???

It would really help if you can tell us what Age you're in, and the location of the symbol you're trying to draw. (I know you said it's the "first" symbol, but if I went to Noloben first and you went to Tahgira first, then we have different "first" symbols.) Once we're sure where you are, then maybe someone can post a picture that will help. I don't know what else we can do, since there aren't any hard-and-fast rules for making the slate recognize a symbol. I wish Cyan had put in a way for us to exchange drawings easily, so we could help in a more practical manner.

Perhaps if you wrote Cyan and explained your problem they could offer useful advice. They wrote the program, so they may know some tricks that we ordinary players don't.

Yes, post the symbol you are having problems with, and we'll see if people can help. I'll put "various ages" in the heading, so people will know there are spoilers from various ages, in the game.

Another thing that might help - take a screenshot of the symbol you made that isn't working and post it somewhere so we can look at it. We might have some ideas on what it would take to improve it.

Now this is strange. I got it by placing the slate on the ground , accidentally. Then I linked back to Direbo to retrieve it only to find the icon on the pedestal!!
No place is this explained to be a method to accomplish this. Is this correct?
And if this is correct, it would have saved me a day and a few added hours and much hurt.
I'm sure I'll be back as I don't get it.
This laying the slate on the ground, thus really laying it in Direbo, just isn't what is described in Prima nor the other online w/t.
Thanks so very much all of you!
Also, your efforts do not go to waste as others will come to this thread. I think I should return here for other problems that I might have as I'm sure I'm not the only player who has health issues that impair game progress.
One never knows...a year from now or more, someone might need the info and your comments.
I hope this works and is the correct place to be.

Please, by all means, ask if you're having problems drawing or anything else.. that's what we're here for (apart from fussing over every little thing all the characters say!)

It seems like you got it. The only way you can place it on the ground and have it "activate" is if you have actually drawn it correctly in the first place.

So... I'm thinking maybe you didn't know what to do with the drawings when you've drawn them - they don't just "work" as soon as you've drawn them.

You have to place the slate on the ground, then take a few steps back and wait for the Bahro to come. Note: the Bahro ALWAYS comes, even if it's not right, so if it doesn't, you keep walking backwards until it does.

When the Bahro comes, it may do one of several things:
- It may shake its head, then link away, leaving the slate there. This means it's wrong.
- It may shake its head and take the slate with it. This also means its wrong but it's taking it back to the pedestal.
- It may place its hand on the slate right away and link away with the slate. If you go back to the pedestal you should see the slate is gone, and the new symbol is there! This is what you want.

So, that's what you should try in future.

As for the shape itself, don't worry too much about the vertices. Vertices are just the points which connect the lines on a shape.

What he was saying is, don't worry about the perfection in the lines or circles - just worry that the shapes are in proportion and all the things that are "touching" in the original picture are also "touching" in yours.

This was so nice to see again. Myst travelers helping one another.Sigh, I want to go to URU and play.

Why can't you?

To me the whole slate recognition thing (which probably amounted to a fair little chunk of programming time) seems a waste of time.

Many have suffered the misinterpretation 'bug' and, since there are only a handful of symbols that you actually use and these are all given either on rocks, the floor or in a book, then why bother at all with the writing thing?

It probably started out as a great concept but the actual implementation of it doesn't really serve any point. They might as well have placed the ready drawn symbol in the slate symbol memory slot once you've found it or clicked on it for example (ala the Uru cloths) then not have needed to bother with all the recognition coding which obviously has its flaws.

Would have solved a lot of problems and time.

Hi! Just wanted to thank all. I'll probably revisit this thread as it relates to making things more easy for those who are impaired.

Ah, I even use two layered pair of reading glasses and my own vision while using the Prima guide that comes with the Limited Edition.
Thus, three levels of sight is an option for those in need.

You all helped me continue to find some joy.
It matters.

Dropping the slate to the ground was the step I didn't do for, oh A DAY, after drawing the symbol. The actual drawing isn't as fussy as I had thought. It was the step and not my unsteady hand that was the problem. I can key fast, as this was part of my personal education but drawing? Well, perfection while drawing doesn't matter that much, after all.

Also, later during game play it matters much where one drops the slate.
And one is able to repeat procedures and recreate reactions. This matters as one might run out of time. Running out of time, though, can offer some fun. Just replay the steps and all is reset as far as I can tell. Use game saves. I still find turning the pages to return to a game save a bother and deleting saves leaves one with a blank page, thus not decreasing the number of pages. I even muted Audio at one point to see if turning the pages would speed up. It doesn't help.

Sometimes one w/t confuses people. Left is right and right is left in a few instances. Just try the opposite, use game saves, and see if you can't get your green lights' edge to rotate. There are other instances where directions are opposite in this wonderful w/t so try the opposite.
I share as I struggled with these things. But, it does help to use the symbols in this w/t when adjusting the four little, power type scopes in the engine room and elsewhere. It makes it easier as one need not turn pages to grasp a symbol. To use and view screen captures of symbols during game play might be tough for those with less powerful computers, I believe.
I could be wrong. Or is Paint not that powerful a program to use alt/tab to paste and view the symbols?
Others might share how to ease any struggles here. Please do.
The responders in this thread are quite helpful and opinions do give some empathy and are appreciated.

This is mainly for others who are having trouble drawing as well. The final symbol in Laki'ahn may have a timed component about it. I had to draw it eight times to get the Bahro to recognize it. It was essentially exactly the same to my eyes, but it didn't work. Also, I found that you couldn't just put the slate down any-old-where, you had the best luck on a beach or flat surface. The symbols on the pedestals sometimes didn't appear immediately. You had to wander around some more and go back. I'm sure that was deliberate.

Thanks Dara! All helps! An explained possible glitch that could cause problems for anyone with an impairment of any kind is welcome.
Mouse: Oh! In another thread, and I want to post it here too, I selected Auto Scroll on my mouse click to back up. Finally I am able to zoom out w/o having to move hands more. More mouse settings might bring out that option, too. I need to check.
Pain and hands: Also, resetting mouse sensitivity and any of its settings, as needed, is a thought. I love that feature.
For some, direction keys might aid in easing pain and help in accuracy; for others, mouse driven is easier.

Please post if anyone needs help as your hands aren't steady, or if you have some other impairment affecting your game.

Maybe I should change the thread title to include more "health issues" that might affect game play and such discussions.
I don't know if I can, but all that might be impaired due to hearing, unsteady hand, teensy Prima Guide eye fatigue, gaming fatigue or pain could share and help each other here.
The mods seem particularly supportive in this thread. They are the exception anyways to many a forum. I am impressed
Thanks all! Thanks so very, very much!

quote:

Originally posted by Dara100:
The symbols on the pedestals sometimes didn't appear immediately. You had to wander around some more and go back. I'm sure that was deliberate.

Well, if you dropped the Slate for a Bahro to take to the pedestal (assuming you couldn't reach it), the symbol only appears once the Slate has actually been placed on the pedestal by the Bahro, rather than as soon as he takes it with him (as I originally and incorrectly supposed).

I liked waiting by the first pedistal after the Bahro have taken the slate, and watching the new symbol appear with that little sound

I think the animation of the Bahro putting the Slate on a pedestal is one of the cutest darn things I've ever seen... *d'awwww*

What kind and wonderful people in this thread.
If anyone has a second language problem, you've come to the right thread, too! I taught second languages. If you need help, I am very patient!
Alamnat: I guess the Bahro only speaks,"grunt!" LOL.
Beautiful flower...=Stella flora? I hope? Guessing at what I think is Italian! Welcome.
To add: Later a quick hand is needed.
So a game save is good to use. I do believe there's probably an easier manner in which one could use links rather than run around and save ones hand from racing and having to be steady and fast. It is needed in the last age: Laki'ahn. Hints to use linking might help some, if it's possible.
Thanks all! You're great!

Alahmnat, I'm talking about instances where you drop the slate far removed from its pedestal. It's supposed to reappear on the pedestal with the new linking symbol but this did not always work. For example in Laki'ahn i'd drop the slate with the fish symbol on the beach and run around to the bubble at the building only to find the slate returned but no symbol. Esher even says that the symbol will appear 'in time'. The natural response is to redraw the symbol adnauseum until it does appear, which is unnecessary.

If the Bahro take the slate back to the bubble rather than to the pedestal containing the new symbol, then they didn't recognize the new symbol you drew. The symbol won't appear on the bubble pedestal until the slate is put on the new pedestal.

maryc - I dont think there's ever a place where you need to *draw* quickly. You just might need to act fast after you lay the slate down.

If you ever find that you have to draw quickly, you could always draw it first and then go into whatever you need it for.

quote:

Or is Paint not that powerful a program to use alt/tab to paste and view the symbols?

It's fine enough... if your computer can run Myst V, it can run Myst V and Paint together. It just might be annoying to alt+tab al the time.
(Of course, less anoying than flipping that darned book.. I agree!)

But... a lot of us use a program called FRAPS which can take unlimited screenshots and store them for you later.
I know that many people used it in the days of Uru Live/Until Uru to capture all the photos of their adventures without having to switch to windows every time and save them manually.
(YOu just hit "F9" to save).
http://www.fraps.com/
The demo is free.. it lets you take pictures fine, but not good video.

By the way if you have blank pages in your book, just position the text cursor in the blank spot and hit delete or backspace.
It's just like a word document with images in it.
(For the technically-inclined this is almost exactly true.. Myst V is actually a very simple HTML editor!)