In Cyan's point of view, Myst and Riven were basically preludes to Uru, which represented the culmination of their dream in that it provided realtime 3D worlds that could be shared by multiple explorers.

In the point of view of many fans, Cyan completely lost the plot with Uru, and these fans refuse to even recognize Uru as a proper Myst title.

I also found Uru frustrating, but I could see where Cyan was trying to go with it and I was amazed, in spite of the bugs. It wasn't finished yet, and I recognized that. On the other hand, Revelation WAS a finished product and still presented obstacles that I found too frustrating to bother with.

Mowog

quote:

Originally posted by Mowog:
In the point of view of many fans, Cyan completely lost the plot with Uru, and these fans refuse to even recognize Uru as a proper Myst title.

Actually, I don't count it as a Myst title because it wasn't supposed to be part of the series proper. It's in the same universe, yes, but it's a bit like trying to say that Voyager is part of the original Star Trek series (okay, I know that's gonna draw fire for comparing Uru to Voyager, but that's applying the metaphor too literally I think ). Myst is what it is, and Uru is what it is, and the two are quite different. I don't think Cyan has ever stated that Uru is an extension or continuation of the Myst series. In fact, they even took the giant "MYST" logo off of the Complete Chronicles and Path of the Shell boxes they had on their website a while back. It's also sort of implied in the "Ages Beyond Myst" subtitle .

For those who like me are sci-fi fans, it could be defined as... similar stories but in parallel worlds or dimensions, accessable through "jumping" apparatus.

I would be amongst those fans who do not consider Uru to be a Myst game. Cyan have gotten carried away with the D'ni. They are not the central characters, Atrus and family are. Just started on Myst V and they seem to have been eradicated completely, except Yeesha who has no resembelance to the former character, except in name. Okay, Uru is a spin-off, we can 'ignore' it but this is part of the official canon. It would be like a Harry Potter book where Harry dies before the 1st page and is never mentioned again. You can focus entirely on Hogwarts or whatever (i know the analogy isn't great) It's probabaly just as well if this is Cyan's final Myst game (yeah right) because with this and Uru they seem to be doing their best to destroy the franchise.

Hey guys,

First of all, I can't believe how many people thought Revelation was so tough! Maybe that was the one Myst game that fit my natural intuition, but I thought it was like 2nd or 3rd easiest! (the easiest was Exile, imho). I don't think the mangree puzzle required THAT much supersonic hearing abiltiy. In fact I got stuck there because I thought I heard at least six notes in the mangree howl. Serious overthinking!
Some of the things in Spire, yeah took some figuring out, but surely not on the scale of RIVEN! I mean we had to learn to COUNT IN D'NI to beat Riven!

Uru was pretty darn hard because of Kadish Tolesa if for no other reason, but I never really felt held back by the interface in either URU or Revelation. I see both as attempts by cyan not to always have the same challenges. (The problem with Exile). What I missed in Uru, was the plot. Virtually non-existant. ANd so far, Myst V seems to have the same problem. I have started EoA right after finishing Uru, and good lord, I'm sick of Yeesha's babling about the tree, and the grower, and the least, blah blah blah blah

quote:

Originally posted by mattssound:
Uru was pretty darn hard because of Kadish Tolesa if for no other reason, but I never really felt held back by the interface in either URU or Revelation. I see both as attempts by cyan not to always have the same challenges. (The problem with Exile). What I missed in Uru, was the plot. Virtually non-existant.

Cyan didn't make Revelation, UbiSoft did.

Uru also doesn't have much plot because you've only got the first chapter of the story. The rest is still holed up at Cyan's offices waiting for a chance to get out, but because Uru Live was shut down so quickly, the full tale never has been told. The expansion packs and to an extent End of Ages are an effort to at least wrap up the tangle of threads involving the DRC and the Bahro, but beyond that, there's a lot more that we don't know because the delivery vehicle was shut down.

Regarding Yeesha's babbling: I emphaphise 100%. How much longer are we going to have This terrible writing foist upon us? "Pride is a thief. Pride stole the D'ni people." etc. Give me a break!

My sympathies regarding beggining Myst V immediately after Uru. That's a lot of punishment to take! Like i said, Cyan have lost the plot. (they've literally lost the plot. They keep forgetting to include one!)

I always considered the Journals and the scripts a fundamental part of Myst's games.
I'm sorry Mattssound and Chinaboatman, but I disagree with both of you: I've found Yeesha's journals very intriguing and well written.

Well the poetry aspect of the journals were ok, I'm just sick of hearing about the Bahro, and the Grower etc. None of it seems to ever be going anywhere.

Maybe if there is all this plot that everyone missed because of the end of URU live, Cyan should heave a collective disappointed breath and move on?

I hope that's not blasphemy in the cyan community, but if you're right and they've spent all of this time with expansion packs and EoA, just to try to tie up loose threads, then we've gotten the begining, and end and no middle. Maybe that's why the plot to these games have suffered. (And maybe 'gasp', that's why Cyan's finances have suffered).

You can have a small storyline, only designed for one game, that's still great ya know. (Riven Exile and Revelation are all testaments to that.)

Matt

I think that Revelation and Exile are very good games from a story perspective. I like the character development. All the characters seem "real" to me. I think they are very well written.

From a story and character perspective, I think that Myst V is better than Uru. I'm not unsympathetic on how difficult it must have been to turn Uru (and the various expansion packs) into solo player games, but I think that they suffer from it. It's a weak story (in my opinion) and the characters you run into aren't believable. They seem more like ways to advance the game along (which of course they are) rather than well thought out characters.

I think that Myst V is better, but still not great, not that I didn't enjoy Myst V - a lot. The plot feels rushed, and I don't think all the characters you meet (not many) are believable.

Yeeshaval, i agree 100% that the journals and whatnot are essential parts of any Myst Game but i just wish they weren't full of the cod-philosophy! Most of it is babble and makes no sense whatsoever!

I also agree with mszv that the storyline and characters in Myst 3 and especially Myst 4 were very good. I've always enjoyed following the lives of Atrus and co and i think that without that aspect (which is missing in End of Ages)the games feel less personal. It may sound a little pathetic, but i had a minor lump in my throat when Achenaar died at the end of Revelation whereas i couldn't care less what happens to Esher or the D'ni. As you say, they don't 'seem real'.

The problem is Cyan have allowed themselves to be self-indulgent. They've followed their own whims, not those of Myst fans, their consumers which is fine but they're relying on those people to buy their product.They're not a charity or an art collective, they're a buisiness and they're in a mess of their own making. If i've spent 20 to 30 pounds on a game that has no story and none of the elements that i expect from the franchise (and it is part of the Myst franchise, whatever they claim, it says Myst clearly on the cover, they're using it as a selling-point) then really i'm going to lose faith in their product. It's not unreasonable. To turn around and say, 'well, the game's not finished' does not make it better, it makes it worse, as i might reasonably expect a finished product for my money. The words 'shoddy', 'arrogant' and 'amateurish' come to mind.

I don't think it is as easily open-and-shut as all that. The myst stories are entering another phase with Uru and Myst 5, and like real life, when something is new it may not be known very well. The D'ni are not easy to figure out, and that is the way it should be. If I felt I understood the D'ni civilization either by completing Uru, or following Atrus and his family around for a few more games I would have felt cheated. As it stands, I got a terrific game in Uru (was my favorite) and a nice continuance in EOA - even though both games had their share of faults, which have been more elegantly stated by others in other threads. I still feel I got my money's worth - Uru and EoA are the only games I currently own that I still leave on my hard drive just so I can wander through them. I just hope this game (Myst 5) is not the end for the D'nu universe. It would be a sad ending if it really were...

"Seriously though...put three objects with handles in front of you and simulate how quick you can move your hand from one to the other - also knowing that some "notes" need to be held longer than others. I don't think this was unrealistic or poorly done in the game at all (to illustrate only one example)."

I am amazed by this statement. The writer must have been playing on a computer that "knew" EXACTLY how long to hold each note. I used three different walkthroughs (including the Prima) and none of them worked. I tried 3/4 turn, 5/8 turn, 0.5 secs, 1.5 secs, endless variations, and nothing worked until finally, totally randomly, it did. Same problem with the Spire chair. Per walkthroughs, over, and over, and over, and finally, randomly, it worked. Cannot duplicate those successes on replay, either.

I am concluding that the Mac version of the code, even with patches, does not run the game properly.

Actually it was "the person" that "knew" what to do with the computer...

I guess wonders never cease ey? ...

"Actually it was "the person" that "knew" what to do with the computer..."

And just exactly HOW did he "know?" I finally did it, and I STILL don't know how. 90% of the time any given Mangree wouldn't even jump at all, after the right tones & many tries. And that remains true today.

That "he" is me... and I guess to keep it simple... the term "parrot" would explain a lot or we can just leave it at wonders nevers cease...or if you want an in depth explanation I'll be happy to explain in a PM!

quote:

Originally posted by chinaboatman:
If i've spent 20 to 30 pounds on a game that has no story and none of the elements that i expect from the franchise (and it is part of the Myst franchise, whatever they claim, it says Myst clearly on the cover, they're using it as a selling-point) then really i'm going to lose faith in their product. It's not unreasonable. To turn around and say, 'well, the game's not finished' does not make it better, it makes it worse, as i might reasonably expect a finished product for my money. The words 'shoddy', 'arrogant' and 'amateurish' come to mind.

The only game I've ever defended as incomplete is Uru, because it obviously is so, through no fault of Cyan's. The content in Ages Beyond Myst was nothing more than a lead-in to the Live component, where the story was supposed to continue to unfold, only it got canceled, and Cyan had 6 months to cobble together something from their production pipeline to put out as an "expansion pack". It still doesn't seem like a complete story or a final product because, well, it still isn't. Its story was designed to unfold online over several years, and that's just not the sort of thing you can just shove into a 6-month production and let go of. End of Ages, too, is another effort to at least wrap up some of the loose threads introduced in Uru, as well as finally close the book once and for all on Atrus's story, but one which again was forced into completion on an incredibly abbreviated schedule by UbiSoft. If there's anyone in this scenario you should really be mad at, it's Ubi, not Cyan. They've been pulling the rug out from under Cyan for two years now, it seems, in an effort to milk the series dry and then discard it (which they have... nothing new is planned for Myst in terms of content, patches, or support for new or upcoming hardware/software, as far as I can determine).

I'm sorry you feel that Cyan has lost their way, but honestly, they were done with Atrus and his family when they finished Riven, and the releases following Riven that focused on them were concessions to the fans who wanted more while Cyan did their own thing. The D'ni culture and history is a great wealth of storytelling possibilities, and I don't think it's misguided of Cyan to attempt to capitalize on that opportunity. The only problem they have, as I see it, is that their stories get branded as "Myst" tales because they inhabit the same universe as Myst and Riven, when really they have little to do with the characters from those games. It's an unfortunate side-effect of branding a larger concept on a smaller product.

Alahmnat,

Very nicely put.

neo...1 (That's what is displayed on MY computer),

Thanks for the offer. I'll see if I can figure out how to address a PM to you, since it looks like your handle is truncated.

It's sad, but at this moment the adventure genre is totally dead. Any adventure game still being made today has extremely dated graphics technology. If an adventure game came out with the graphics of today's high end shooters it would look incredible, but nobody wants to make that. The industry is heading in the "Instant Gratification" direction through shooters and terrorism type games.

Posted Sun March 05 2006 23:02
quote:
Originally posted by chinaboatman:
If i've spent 20 to 30 pounds on a game that has no story and none of the elements that i expect from the franchise (and it is part of the Myst franchise, whatever they claim, it says Myst clearly on the cover, they're using it as a selling-point) then really i'm going to lose faith in their product. It's not unreasonable. To turn around and say, 'well, the game's not finished' does not make it better, it makes it worse, as i might reasonably expect a finished product for my money. The words 'shoddy', 'arrogant' and 'amateurish' come to mind.

The only game I've ever defended as incomplete is Uru, because it obviously is so, through no fault of Cyan's. The content in Ages Beyond Myst was nothing more than a lead-in to the Live component, where the story was supposed to continue to unfold, only it got canceled, and Cyan had 6 months to cobble together something from their production pipeline to put out as an "expansion pack". It still doesn't seem like a complete story or a final product because, well, it still isn't. Its story was designed to unfold online over several years, and that's just not the sort of thing you can just shove into a 6-month production and let go of. End of Ages, too, is another effort to at least wrap up some of the loose threads introduced in Uru, as well as finally close the book once and for all on Atrus's story, but one which again was forced into completion on an incredibly abbreviated schedule by UbiSoft. If there's anyone in this scenario you should really be mad at, it's Ubi, not Cyan. They've been pulling the rug out from under Cyan for two years now, it seems, in an effort to milk the series dry and then discard it (which they have... nothing new is planned for Myst in terms of content, patches, or support for new or upcoming hardware/software, as far as I can determine).

I'm sorry you feel that Cyan has lost their way, but honestly, they were done with Atrus and his family when they finished Riven, and the releases following Riven that focused on them were concessions to the fans who wanted more while Cyan did their own thing. The D'ni culture and history is a great wealth of storytelling possibilities, and I don't think it's misguided of Cyan to attempt to capitalize on that opportunity. The only problem they have, as I see it, is that their stories get branded as "Myst" tales because they inhabit the same universe as Myst and Riven, when really they have little to do with the characters from those games. It's an unfortunate side-effect of branding a larger concept on a smaller product.

----------

Rereading my prior comments a while on, they are harsh. The points you make above are fair. At the time I had just begun playing Myst V and to say I was disapointed would be an understatement. I've calmed down since then and looking back I actually sounded a little embarrisingly hysterical!
I stand by the general points I made but I realize that I perhaps wasn't being too fair towards Cyan. As you say, Ubisoft are really more to blame for games being rushed out incomplete than Cyan.
And also, it is Cyan's concept originally so I suppose they can take it in whatever direction they want although I still think that the switch in focus from Atrus & co to D'ni is too abrupt.Bear in mind that the majority of people will never have experianced Uru Live.
You're completely right to say that the problem is a branding issue. As Uru has no real connection with the Myst games it shouldn't have the Myst logo on it. Who would be responsible for that descicion I don't know.