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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
I'm sorry, but it just does not seem plausible that after Sam was brought back from Iceland that he wouldn't have seen Sarah in the hospital or that he wouldn't have seen her body before he buried her.

What if she was transfered to the hospital and Sam was there made to believe, she would die (fake doctors / nurses / death certificates etc.)?

Again, this doesn't escape the fact that he would have to seen her body after coming back from Iceland and would have buried her after she was transferred to this new hospital that had a load of phoney staff pretending to be medical professionals.

So, I suppose that if you did throw in the possibility that they had kidnapped another girl with identical physical traits to Sarah, then performed facial re constructive surgery on her so well that she was unmistakable, altered her teeth for dental records and then had her walk the streets and somehow hold her in place long enough to run her over with a car (all of this done as soon as they realised Sam had been deployed on a top secret mission during a window of about 12 hours or so) while at the same time kidnapping Sarah without anyone noticing and then sold the idea that this other girl was his only daughter to Sam, that then maybe this could be possible.

An absolutely ridiculous, hair brained, complex, uncontrollable plan, that could go wrong in so many ways, all to make Sam believe that his daughter was dead. And for what? Someone please tell me why they had to do this. What possible reason could an organisation have to do this to a solider?

To make him take the JBA job? The intricacies and the depth the conspiracy would have to go to would be phenomenal and someone as integrated into the system as Lambert would have caught wind of this ages before Sam was sent into Ellsworth.

If the bad guys we're opposing in Conviction are the sort that hatch these sort of crazy, Hollywood villian styled plans then I'm really starting to lose respect for this franchise.

Two wrongs most certainly do not make a right!

Sarah's death was an unfortunate mistake, but bringing her back under these circumstances is just going to cause more grievances than it settles.

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Originally posted by Stealthgamer001:

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Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
If it's true, I'm one of the few that'd be okay with it.

Yes, it's incredibly cliché, but I really don't care. I completely disagreed with killing her in the first place, and I'd be happy to see her not dead.

And really, it could be worse...they could have made her death a dream.

The character Sarah Fisher is actually an important plot device in all of the Splinter Cell games (Except perhaps Chaos Theory, where she was never mentioned.)

In the first two games, she represented Sam's civilian life. Her presence really made it clear that he had something to fight for. The plot of Conviction would be rather dry if Sarah were still dead all the way through it.

An important plot device? Sure, she's an important person to Sam, and she gives his character more depth, but to call her an important plot device is pushing it. In total, I'd say 30 seconds (worth of cutscenes) from the first two games are actually affected by her existence.

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Originally posted by I_am_a_SC:
If it is true that Sarah's death was faked, maybe Ubisoft was listening to the fans. I know I am probably the biggest guilty party there is for being angry at Sarah's death in D/A.

But you were in good company back then, I tell you that - there were not just a hand full of people that didn't like the idea. So, no hard feelings.

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Like I have said before, with Sam, if they wanted him to take that mission then all they would have needed to do was simply ask him and he would of but now that I think about it, with what we know of Conviction, maybe Sarah's death was to get Sam to quit 3E and he did exactly that because Lambert then went and approached him I think it was 6 months later and many other higher ups in 3E were against Sam doing that mission.

Actually only 3 people knew of Sam's mission: Lambert, Sam and Assistant Director Williams. No higher ups were involved as far as I know. Lambert & Sam were pretty much on their own.

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ike I also said before too, I saw a story board drawing of Conviction a few months back were it showed drawing of Sarah in a hospital bed and what appeared to be her on life support or unconscious. Now with the statement that Vth made about a fake hospital and so on, I am now wondering if what I saw was something accurate.

The storyboard sequence you mentioned, is exactly what I was refering to, however I think it was created for Double Agent - not Conviction because another part showed Sam, entering the Ellsworth prison.

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I know I am in the minority on this one but I actually hope Sarah is not dead or Lambert. Sarah was the reason why Sam fought so hard for America because he wanted his only family to always be safe. Yes, he did it for every other person too but His daughter was who made the citizens of this Country personal to him.

Exactly and I even think, that this was one of the reasons why Sam always contacted Sarah before he did a mission. At the end she reminded him of the only reason, why he was still doing, what he was doing or rather for whose safety he was doing it. From Sam's point of view, he did all that for only one reason: Sarah's future.

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Originally posted by CDTOE:
The reason behind killing or kidnapping Sarah ( if this is true ) is to make Sam accepts the most dangerous mission ( playing as a double agent ) . In the intro scene of Double agent , when Sam in the prison , Lambert says : " He had nothing to lose anymore ,so , that's why he took the most dangerous mission in his career " . The killing or kidnapping of Sarah was arranged by the NSA to make Sam accepts the mission because If Sarah wasn't killed or kidnapped , Sam may not accept the mission , because he will not sacrifice his life while his daughter is still alive .

Put aside the fact that Sam would have taken the mission anyway if he was the only man for the job (which, he clearly wasn't suited for), regardless of his commitments, what possible guarantee could they have that Sam would take the mission afterwards?

NONE!

It's just way too far fetched to even be considered as a plausible plot line for a Tom Clancy storyline.

It's laaaaaaaaaaaaaame

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
Exactly and I even think, that this was one of the reasons why Sam always contacted Sarah before he did a mission. At the end she reminded him of the only reason, why he was still doing, what he was doing or rather for whose safety he was doing it. From Sam's point of view, he did all that for only one reason: Sarah's future.

Very, very true. Which is why it was a terrible mistake to remove her from the storyline, but that doesn't justify bringing her back and jeopardising the reputation of this game's story lines any further IMO

If anything it would strengthen Sam's character to show that he still does care about saving innocents when it's not just his daughter's future he's worried about.

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Originally posted by newhenpal:

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Originally posted by Stealthgamer001:

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Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
If it's true, I'm one of the few that'd be okay with it.

Yes, it's incredibly cliché, but I really don't care. I completely disagreed with killing her in the first place, and I'd be happy to see her not dead.

And really, it could be worse...they could have made her death a dream.

The character Sarah Fisher is actually an important plot device in all of the Splinter Cell games (Except perhaps Chaos Theory, where she was never mentioned.)

In the first two games, she represented Sam's civilian life. Her presence really made it clear that he had something to fight for. The plot of Conviction would be rather dry if Sarah were still dead all the way through it.

An important plot device? Sure, she's an important person to Sam, and she gives his character more depth, but to call her an important plot device is pushing it. In total, I'd say 30 seconds (worth of cutscenes) from the first two games are actually affected by her existence.

Well, maybe not a plot device exactly, but her brief appearence had some effect.

Wasn't Sarah kidnapped on a mission on Double Agent for the PS2 and Xbox. I am almost certain it was a bonus mission.

Yeah, the PS2 version of DA had a bonus mission called Tanker. Sarah had been kidnapped, your mission was to neutralize all of the kidnappers and assure Sarah's safety. Not sure if this has something to do with the PSP Essentials or not, just my guess.

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Originally posted by jrcobra007:
Wasn't Sarah kidnapped on a mission on Double Agent for the PS2 and Xbox. I am almost certain it was a bonus mission.

Yep. It wasn't on the XBox (sadly), but it was one of the PS2 bonus missions.

So does that mean that this will be her third time being kidnapped?

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
So does that mean that this will be her third time being kidnapped?

Yes, if you count the books. Only twice in the games though.

Well, if they're not original, at least they're consistent!

For the record....the storylines in SC 1-3 were all cliched, predictable and boring. I'm sorry but I don't feel bad about enjoying a SC story for once (in DA), and possibly having another interesting story in a SC game with Conviction, which has potential, despite being "Hollywood".

While I can't believe that they would say Sarah is now alive after how it played out in DA, I am willing to wait to see how it is explained in the game before I can really give my final opinion on it.

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Originally posted by stavros_27:
For the record....the storylines in SC 1-3 were all cliched, predictable and boring. I'm sorry but I don't feel bad about enjoying a SC story for once (in DA), and possibly having another interesting story in a SC game with Conviction, which has potential, despite being "Hollywood".

While I can't believe that they would say Sarah is now alive after how it played out in DA, I am willing to wait to see how it is explained in the game before I can really give my final opinion on it.

I don't think that you should feel bad for enjoying D/A. Heck, I will admit that a lot of the missions were very fun. I hated the compound missions and the prison escape mission but the other ones were actually good I thought. My main complaint was the story line of how they got Sam to take the mission and then I was mad as heck when I thought they were going to go with the Essentials story line of Lambert being killed when I never did that with Sam nor do I think Sam would ever do that if it was a real life situation. I was very glad to hear that Essentials in not cannon and I believe it was confirmed by UbiRazz that Lambert was not killed. I thought D/A was a good game with something new for a change, which I did not mind but like I said, my biggest gripes were elements of the story.

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Originally posted by Ultimate_Night:

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
So does that mean that this will be her third time being kidnapped?

Yes, if you count the books. Only twice in the games though.

Once! As it turned out, Sarah hasn't been kidnapped in the Bonus Mission, but Sam just tested a new drug for the NSA which caused Hallucinations.

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Originally posted by I_am_a_SC:

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Originally posted by stavros_27:
For the record....the storylines in SC 1-3 were all cliched, predictable and boring. I'm sorry but I don't feel bad about enjoying a SC story for once (in DA), and possibly having another interesting story in a SC game with Conviction, which has potential, despite being "Hollywood".

While I can't believe that they would say Sarah is now alive after how it played out in DA, I am willing to wait to see how it is explained in the game before I can really give my final opinion on it.

I don't think that you should feel bad for enjoying D/A. Heck, I will admit that a lot of the missions were very fun. I hated the compound missions and the prison escape mission but the other ones were actually good I thought. My main complaint was the story line of how they got Sam to take the mission and then I was mad as heck when I thought they were going to go with the Essentials story line of Lambert being killed when I never did that with Sam nor do I think Sam would ever do that if it was a real life situation. I was very glad to hear that Essentials in not cannon and I believe it was confirmed by UbiRazz that Lambert was not killed. I thought D/A was a good game with something new for a change, which I did not mind but like I said, my biggest gripes were elements of the story.

I agree with most of what both you guys say. Though my biggest gripe with Double Agent was the games depth didn't live up to the hype, it wasn't very polished, the current gen version was to short. All the JBA missions were like the same one at a different time of the day, you need to put the first two missions together to make a full level but other then that it was good. I still play it all the time and enjoy every minute of it... I just think it could have been better.

There was certain things that Double Agent did that didn't sit very well with a lot of SC fans. They killed Sarah and almost completely removed night time missions. Conviction fixes both these problems.
I don't think it's fair to say the new team is making a huge mistake when they are just trying to fix things that they didn't do. Sure some of us believe that they are making mistakes of their own. But said problem have been fixed in Conviction... maybe the new team liked SC better before DA.

SC6: Sarah is alive, L&S stealth is taken to the next level. More polished PEV gameplay, and the good'oll Sam who cares about the consequences of his actions, and he has family to come home to.

Just a bit of trivia: you never see Sarah get hit by the car in the E3 demo. They went to all the trouble to make a new character model: that's like hours of art design and 3D modeling for a couple of seconds. It's obvious when you think about it, lol.

I really don't like plot unless Doug Shetland survived shot in the head and long fall, went undercover and kidnapped Sarah's with 3E's generous help, result of which is Sam's downfall and open road to start N. Korea-S. Korea/U.S. war again. In the final mission, just to keep twists going, Sam should face Kim Jong-il, cyborg-enhanced after latest health problems, in intense shootout.

It even pleases everyone who wants CT's sequel...

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Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
I really don't like plot unless Doug Shetland survived shot in the head and long fall, went undercover and kidnapped Sarah's with 3E's generous help, result of which is Sam's downfall and open road to start N. Korea-S. Korea/U.S. war again. In the final mission, just to keep twists going, Sam should face Kim Jong-il, cyborg-enhanced after latest health problems, in intense shootout.

It even pleases everyone who wants CT's sequel...

But not before Sadono releases enhanced small-pocks to turn the population into zombies, lol.

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Originally posted by Jazz_117:

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Originally posted by H.A.R.M.s:
I really don't like plot unless Doug Shetland survived shot in the head and long fall, went undercover and kidnapped Sarah's with 3E's generous help, result of which is Sam's downfall and open road to start N. Korea-S. Korea/U.S. war again. In the final mission, just to keep twists going, Sam should face Kim Jong-il, cyborg-enhanced after latest health problems, in intense shootout.

It even pleases everyone who wants CT's sequel...

But not before Sadono releases enhanced small-pocks to turn the population into zombies, lol.

Let me guess what happens at the end...Sam defeats a horde of giant killerrobots using a Katana and by that prevents the birth of John Connor, who turned out to be a cloned son of Lambert?

No MGS here, move along.

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

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Originally posted by Ultimate_Night:

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
So does that mean that this will be her third time being kidnapped?

Yes, if you count the books. Only twice in the games though.

Once! As it turned out, Sarah hasn't been kidnapped in the Bonus Mission, but Sam just tested a new drug for the NSA which caused Hallucinations.

That was the other bonus mission - he wasn't loopy for Sarah's.

This is just ridiculous ... I haven't read all the post but I think it is hilarious. I remember the first slip up and since then I didn't think it was even questionable she is obviously still alive but thats just poor story telling in a attempt to make a squeal.