quote:

Originally posted by Deirath:

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
(I must have missed the episode in which Bauer's daughter is being captured because I don't recall such an event)

You must have missed the whole 1st season then.

Which is probably the case. I think I began watching 24 when Palmer became President.

But a lot of my buddies told me, the first season was 'mediocre'. I guess I'll have to watch it now and I appreciate the hint.

Well anyway, the whole 1st season was dedicated to his daughter being kidnapped...

quote:

Originally posted by Deirath:
Well anyway, the whole 1st season was dedicated to his daughter being kidnapped...

I see. But then again...the devs took their inspiration from various sources & films. For example Die Hard (I assume 4.0 because it deals with a nationwide 'blackout' and an EMP bomb which might be 'detonated' in Washington comes very close to that), 24 (season one, thanks for the hint again Deirath), Taken 96 hours (check it out, it's quite an awesome movie), the Bourne films (awesome as well), Fringe etc. so at the end, the result must be different then because each of them were different.

I'm interested to see which elements they were using and how the plot turns out.

Yes, but they've taken so much from all these other sources that they seem to have forgotten to add any Splinter Cell to the game.

And I don't care how they manage to work it into the story. The decision to bring her back will be even worse than the decision to kill her off.

We saw Sarah get hit by the car. It was her that was killed. Lambert brought Sam home immediately after she was killed, therefore there is no way possible that she is not dead and Sam did not bury her.

If they don't respect their own story telling then what other story elements that we've seen throughout the series are they just going to go back on and say "well, you know, if we give you a ridiculous reason and throw in a conspiracy plot then *this* didn't actually happen, you just thought it did"

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
Yes, but they've taken so much from all these other sources that they seem to have forgotten to add any Splinter Cell to the game.

I'm not so sure about that. Keep in mind that Grim is obviously Director of Third Echelon now and who knows how that might change a situation or what kind of additional characters will make an appearence (Redding? Lambert? Cohen?) and what's with that Victor Coster who seem to know a lot about Sam and his past? How does he fit into all that? There are still a few question marks.

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We saw Sarah get hit by the car. It was her that was killed. Lambert brought Sam home immediately after she was killed, therefore there is no way possible that she is not dead and Sam did not bury her.

As far as I remember the intro sequence, Lambert says "I broke the news when I pulled him out of Iceland. He didn't take it well. Nobody would. Losing their own flesh and blood. And he'll never be the same again." If the accident was really set up then Sam had to believe that she's gone and the messenger had to believe it as well, because otherwise Sam wouldn't believe it. I think there are ways to fake her death - even storywise, if you really want to. Besides, you are right about the fact that we see the car that hit her (with Andreij Kobin on board) but we have no idea what we actually saw. Maybe that was only Sam imagining how it must have happened based on what Lambert told him or the report of the coroner. Narrative wise, that's as open as it can be. According to the guy in the opening sequence of the E3 demo, Kobin drove the car that hit Sarah. However neither he nor Kobin reveals if Sarah was dead or just injured. The only info Kobin delivers is that "If you want to know what happened to your daughter, you should go with them (the 'panther hunters' aka the Splinter Cells)." which implies that the NSA was somehow involved.

But based on all that, there would be enough loose ends you could tie up or even bend in quite a few directions, if you want without disrespecting the own story-telling, some of them could be a little 'thin' though. I admit, there are some risks that might bend the story a bit too much, but as long as they are uncertain, they remain 'risks'.

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Originally posted by Si1entDark:
"So here again is another one of the cutscene/movie sequences telling the story of Sam's daughter, who he thought had died but had been kidnapped" "

Hmm...that reminds me a little bit of Man on Fire with Denzel W.

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Originally posted by papstgh:

quote:

Originally posted by Si1entDark:
"So here again is another one of the cutscene/movie sequences telling the story of Sam's daughter, who he thought had died but had been kidnapped" "

Hmm...that reminds me a little bit of Man on Fire with Denzel W.

Yeah I can see what you meant by that. There is alot of similarities in the plot devices used.

Although Creasy was not blood related to Pita as Sam is to Sarah. Creasy was just a bodygaurd with frankly nothing to lose while Sam felt there was a meaning to his life because of Sarah, who was his own flesh and blood. Now he has lost his meaning and is out for revenge.

Sarah might be used as a bargaining device to make Sam jump through some hoops, possibly resulting in his downfall. As a character he is only human and there is only so many hoops a man can jump through. I don't wont Sam to die but its possible now that Sarah is alive. This will just be a motivating factor for him to save her which would be a huge risk, but a risk he's willing to take even if it means he's going to die for her.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Si1entDark,

The only thing that stands out in my mind is that the news was so urgent that Lambert flew to Iceland to tell Sam and pulled him out of the mission to break the news, which means that it was immediate.

It's not as if it had happened days before, she was buried and Lambert then flew to Iceland to tell Sam.

Sam was clearly inserted into Iceland hours before he was told and was then extracted and brought home, which would lead you to believe that he was in contact with Sarah before the mission, as he has been known to talk to her before missions and stay in regular contact.

I'm sorry, but it just does not seem plausible that after Sam was brought back from Iceland that he wouldn't have seen Sarah in the hospital or that he wouldn't have seen her body before he buried her.

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
I'm sorry, but it just does not seem plausible that after Sam was brought back from Iceland that he wouldn't have seen Sarah in the hospital or that he wouldn't have seen her body before he buried her.

What if she was transfered to the hospital and Sam was there made to believe, she would die (fake doctors / nurses / death certificates etc.)?

I cannot express the eternal feeling of loathing and hatred I am feeling into words.

The fact something so trivial has sparked such a reaction should demonstrate just how disgusted I am by this.

The Tom Clancy name means nothing to Ubisoft, quite clearly, if this simple spoiler is true, I am ashamed.

If it's true, I'm one of the few that'd be okay with it.

Yes, it's incredibly cliché, but I really don't care. I completely disagreed with killing her in the first place, and I'd be happy to see her not dead.

And really, it could be worse...they could have made her death a dream.

Ooh, I found one of my old posts:


"It would be completely illogical for Sarah to still be alive, 3E kills people. They wouldn't keep Sarah alive for 3 years, what would be the point?

To coerce Sam? That's also stupid, firstly, they would've done it sooner rather than later, and secondly, telling Sam Fisher that you have his daughter hostage is a sure way to end up with a knife stuck in your throat.

The ONLY possible solution is that 3E faked Sarah's death and kidnapped her in order to force Sam into undertaking the Double Agent mission. The mission would result in the death of Lambert (Which it did) and the framing of Sam (Which it did)Director Williams probably did this to remove the two people who could stop his "master plan", but the plan was screwed when Sam avoided capture, though William's probably pre-empted this and kept Sarah as a last ditch insurance policy to secure William's plans; which will probably end up to be some kind of stupid global domination plot.. Then Grimm finds out, tells Sam after 3E capture him in Malta, helps him escape and then they work together to bring Williams down.

That is the only real way in my eyes Sarah is alive."

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:I see. But then again...the devs took their inspiration from various sources & films. For example Die Hard (I assume 4.0 because it deals with a nationwide 'blackout' and an EMP bomb which might be 'detonated' in Washington comes very close to that), 24 (season one, thanks for the hint again Deirath), Taken 96 hours (check it out, it's quite an awesome movie), the Bourne films (awesome as well), Fringe etc. so at the end, the result must be different then because each of them were different.

I'm interested to see which elements they were using and how the plot turns out.

The problem is that they didn't need to take elements from TV and Movies. The Story Line should have been unique, just as unique as the game itself. The ONLY inspiration needed to come from previous Splinter Cell games, not from anywhere else.

It just shows me that they have very little creative thought if they have to use Movies and TV shows to come up with a Story Line and inspiration for the game.

If it is true that Sarah's death was faked, maybe Ubisoft was listening to the fans. I know I am probably the biggest guilty party there is for being angry at Sarah's death in D/A. If what Vth is saying is true and that Ubi realized it was a mistake, and then decided to change it, no matter what they do, it is going to be cheezy because they way D/A was, was cheezy! Her death was very cliche' like so many Hollywood B rated films as well as the entire storyline to D/A. Like I have said before, with Sam, if they wanted him to take that mission then all they would have needed to do was simply ask him and he would of but now that I think about it, with what we know of Conviction, maybe Sarah's death was to get Sam to quit 3E and he did exactly that because Lambert then went and approached him I think it was 6 months later and many other higher ups in 3E were against Sam doing that mission. Like I also said before too, I saw a story board drawing of Conviction a few months back were it showed drawing of Sarah in a hospital bed and what appeared to be her on life support or unconscious. Now with the statement that Vth made about a fake hospital and so on, I am now wondering if what I saw was something accurate. I know I am in the minority on this one but I actually hope Sarah is not dead or Lambert. Sarah was the reason why Sam fought so hard for America because he wanted his only family to always be safe. Yes, he did it for every other person too but His daughter was who made the citizens of this Country personal to him. I just hope after Conviction is done, we are given a proper sequel to Chaos Theory. D/A would not have been bad for being different had they kept the storyline real and not fake. Especially that stupid prison escape mission. From playing both versions of the game, I can tell that Ubisoft didn't even call a prison and see how they are run or do any research at all because everything about both those versions of that mission were ridiculously fake.

Let's run through the plot of SCC as we know it.

Sam's daughter is killed, he gets ****ed (24)

Sam fights terrorists armed with EMPs (24)

Sam's daughter turns out to be alive after all (24)


I could go on. Someone clearly got given a 24 boxset for Christmas on the Ubi storyline team.

I forgot to ask too, since D/A or Conviction, since Ubi has decided to use movies as inspiration for all of their new games, what did they do for inspiration on the 1st 3 Splinter Cell games? Those had a lot more realism that any other game and that being changed appears to be what has most of the fans so angry. Myself included! Conviction is very close to me ending my boycott of all Ubisoft games but it is that unrealism that has been added to the game now that has me not wanting to buy this game. Sam's superhuman speed, the LKP, which I understand is only there to assist the player and is not meant to be thought that an actual ghost outline of Sam is left where he goes but I could lure the people in the older games to Sam's LKP without a ghost and preferred that. Same with the projections! I hate them! I also loved being able to move bodies and make distracting noises. The hiding bodies was essential to all previous games even D/A as bas of a game as it was. With the making noise, it was just flat out fun sometimes. In the Battery mission of D/A, I am on the back side of the computer thing and the one Asian general is about to kill the 2 officers that went against his orders and right before he does, I whistle and it scares the crap out of all of them and they go shooting away at me like crazy but none of their bullets penetrate the computer thing I am behind. I spent a good 15 to 20 minutes just messing with the people before reloading my last save because it was funny as heck and made the game replayable. I also miss Sam's gadgets and suit! From the books, you know that his suit could take bullets being fired at Sam and not kill him or at least it could take a certain amount of bullets before that happened but now Sam has a sweater on from Macy's and it would offer no protection at all. One shot and Sam is at the very least seriously injured and it's then game over. I also want the options for Sam's goggles from Chaos Theory back. This new version is just flat out stupid and again, ridiculously unrealistic! I do like the hand to hand moves Sam now does as well as the M&E. Those are areas where Sam would be able to do that in real life with his training.

The reason behind killing or kidnapping Sarah ( if this is true ) is to make Sam accepts the most dangerous mission ( playing as a double agent ) . In the intro scene of Double agent , when Sam in the prison , Lambert says : " He had nothing to lose anymore ,so , that's why he took the most dangerous mission in his career " . The killing or kidnapping of Sarah was arranged by the NSA to make Sam accepts the mission because If Sarah wasn't killed or kidnapped , Sam may not accept the mission , because he will not sacrifice his life while his daughter is still alive .

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

No offense guys, but I think it's time to lower the rant now and see Conviction for what it is - A GAME. A fictional piece of interactive entertainment that's not just targeting us hardcore-Splinter Cell fans, but also those who never played a Splinter Cell game before.

Would you say this if Sam got into epic space battles with 8 legged unicorns? At some point these guys are going to have to realize that this is a SPLINTER CELL GAME. A TOM CLANCY GAME. Not mediocre fan fiction for 24/The Bourne series/James Bond/Man on Fire/whatever piece of entertainment they wish they were making a video game adaption of.

What does a Tom Clancy games feature? A believable storyline. True, the past games did require suspension of disbelief, but these twists and turns they're making doesn't make for an interesting storyline, it degrades it and makes it less believable. Even fantasy stories need to have believable aspects in order to retain the interest of the listener.

Not got enough time to read all the replies but if Sarah was kidnapped it would follow one of the storylines from one of the books.......

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Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
If it's true, I'm one of the few that'd be okay with it.

Yes, it's incredibly cliché, but I really don't care. I completely disagreed with killing her in the first place, and I'd be happy to see her not dead.

And really, it could be worse...they could have made her death a dream.

The character Sarah Fisher is actually an important plot device in all of the Splinter Cell games (Except perhaps Chaos Theory, where she was never mentioned.)

In the first two games, she represented Sam's civilian life. Her presence really made it clear that he had something to fight for. The plot of Conviction would be rather dry if Sarah were still dead all the way through it.