quote:

Originally posted by ollopa123:
dude i think that the whole kidnapping thing is pretty stupid. but an answer to the whole surgerey thing is probably not the case but if sam was told that she was so damaged by the car that it had to be a closed casket then he would never know. so that might be the case.

Sam was brought home from the mission at the time Sarah was killed.

Regardless of her condition he would have to have seen her body at some stage while she was in hospital or after he claimed the body so the undertaker could put her in her casket.

quote:

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:

quote:

Originally posted by ollopa123:
dude i think that the whole kidnapping thing is pretty stupid. but an answer to the whole surgerey thing is probably not the case but if sam was told that she was so damaged by the car that it had to be a closed casket then he would never know. so that might be the case.

Sam was brought home from the mission at the time Sarah was killed.

Regardless of her condition he would have to have seen her body at some stage while she was in hospital or after he claimed the body so the undertaker could put her in her casket.

true but if the body was already hard to regconize it wouldnt be hard to sell

As Sarah was already semi-knowledgeable about Sam's career, maybe something happened where she went along with her own death to protect him. Though, that doesn't really match with any of the "Sarah getting run over" flashbacks.

epic fail, Ubi.

quote:

Originally posted by hudsoniscool:

quote:

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:

quote:

Originally posted by ollopa123:
dude i think that the whole kidnapping thing is pretty stupid. but an answer to the whole surgerey thing is probably not the case but if sam was told that she was so damaged by the car that it had to be a closed casket then he would never know. so that might be the case.

Sam was brought home from the mission at the time Sarah was killed.

Regardless of her condition he would have to have seen her body at some stage while she was in hospital or after he claimed the body so the undertaker could put her in her casket.

true but if the body was already hard to regconize it wouldnt be hard to sell

I can see what you're saying but in my opinion Sam is the kind of character that misses nothing, especially when it comes to his daughter. He is trained to notice the fine details and be sure about important things

Anyway, this whole plan and conspiracy is far too up in the air and has far too many variables that are uncontrollable to ever be considered as a proper course of action by an agency.

People here have been watching far too many Hollywood movies.

It also has way too much depth and has way too high level of detail to merely influence the participation of one lowly operator into undertaking a mission, a mission that many other people were far more qualified to undertake.

Ok, I *could* understand this level of detail (in a Hollywood plot) and intricacy in a plan if there was a government being taken apart or a president was being assassinated, but Sam is a small cog and merely a tool in the grand scheme of things and has no influence in large scale of things. Why would the people responsible go to ALL that effort? Fisher has no wealth, no power and no means to influence anything beyond what's informed about and ordered to do.

Plus I'm pretty sure Sam would have undertaken the JBA job regardless of whether Sarah was alive or not if he agreed that he was the only man for the job.

His sense of duty would have dictated him to do so.

(Assuming that they killed her to influence Sam to take part in the JBA mission and not for some other crazy plot)

I called it first. I knew it. I warned you guys back in June.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...651076067#9651076067

Ubisoft, you just couldn't resist, could you? You just couldn't say no. Tom Clancy practicality be damned. You just had to "take it to the next level" and pull a plot device right out of 24, didn't you? This is why I only care about multiplayer. I gave up on Fisher's story after Double Agent.

This video also reconfirms that the Conviction team is the same team from R6 Vegas. Makes perfect sense. These guys think on an entirely different plane.

I hope the whole goal of this is to return Sam's life situation back to the way it was in Chaos Theory where he had family to come home to. That's the only positive outcome of this.

Even that end goal doesn't excuse how ridiculous this would be as a plot device.

Fair enough, killing Sarah was a bad decision and Sam was a far more interesting character with her as part of his life, but this sort of action just soils the whole series even more in the episode that is supposed to bring this franchise back into respectability.

It's such an obvious plot line: "But his daughter is still alive!!". It involves zero creativity and it's about as clichéd as it gets. I strongly disagreed with the idea that it could happen and didn't bring up the possibility of it occurring because I thought that the Montreal team that was responsible for SAR and CT would have enough sense and respect for the series not to drag it to this sort of low and even entertain the idea for a second.

But as it turns out, it's the same team that "transformed" Rainbow Six into what it is today, so now it's a completely different box of frogs.

I really, really, really, really, really, really hope I was right in the first place.

This would be a disaster if Sarah's alive.

quote:

Fair enough, killing Sarah was a bad decision and Sam was a far more interesting character with her as part of his life, but this sort of action just soils the whole series even more in the episode that is supposed to bring this franchise back into respectability.

Oh yeah. Damage has been done. They can try and move Sam back to where he was but he's already been cheapened by this roller coaster ride that started with Double Agent. They can't fully undo that and are just going to have to live with it which is perhaps their goal and the best they can do.

wow someone needs to be fired.

soooo can we have some info on multi now ubi? lol

I mean single player is out in open now, might as well cave and let us know a little something.

Complete Hollywood experience.

But of B-movies. Probably that's why Sam doesn't have any facial expression, they tried to copy Steven Seagal.

LMAO! Sellouts!

Playing the 'devils advocate', again:

Sooo...IF that's true, what would be the worst thing, that could happen storywise? That Sarah is alive? Sorry, but I won't lose any sleep over that, especially as - like others here stated (correct) - didn't get to know her that close. Sidenote: Sarah's fate is only a part of the game.

No offense guys, but I think it's time to lower the rant now and see Conviction for what it is - A GAME. A fictional piece of interactive entertainment that's not just targeting us hardcore-Splinter Cell fans, but also those who never played a Splinter Cell game before.

And more important:

What would be wrong in making a mistake, then realizing that it was a mistake and correcting it (if that's true)? In my opinion realizing that it was a mistake but doing nothing, would be worse.

Why don't you just give them a chance to show off what they've got and then judge - once you've seen everything? It won't kill you.

Don't forget that when Sarah was "killed," Sam was away in Iceland. When he got back home, he was an emotional wreck, and had no reason to suspect any foul play. It's quite plausible that the NSA or whoever is responsible had the opportunity to pull something on Sam.

We all saw this comming. The concept of comming back to life after a fake death may sound like something that belongs in a soap opera, but I would wait until I know the entire plot before calling it stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
Playing the 'devils advocate', again:

Sooo...IF that's true, what would be the worst thing, that could happen storywise? That Sarah is alive? Sorry, but I won't lose any sleep over that, especially as - like others here stated (correct) - didn't get to know her that close. Sidenote: Sarah's fate is only a part of the game.

No offense guys, but I think it's time to lower the rant now and see Conviction for what it is - A GAME. A fictional piece of interactive entertainment that's not just targeting us hardcore-Splinter Cell fans, but also those who never played a Splinter Cell game before.

And more important:

What would be wrong in making a mistake, then realizing that it was a mistake and correcting it (if that's true)? In my opinion realizing that it was a mistake but doing nothing, would be worse.

Why don't you just give them a chance to show off what they've got and then judge - once you've seen everything? It won't kill you.

Maybe YOU are fine with Ubi taking a great franchise and turning into an interactive game of "24" but the majority of us who want a REAL Splinter Cell game isn't.

IF this is true, which I think it is considering the source of the youtube video, it's just another reason why these group of developers should have NEVER been allowed to touch this series if they can't come up with a better story line than that.

I, along with a majority of others, have seen plenty and enough to know that this is so far from being a Splinter Cell game it isn't even funny.

This is what happens when you cater towards the "Casual Gamer", you end up taking a great series and "dumbing it down" not only game play wise but story line wise to bring in people who could care less about the series while alienating the ones who actually made this series popular by buying the games, playing the games, and telling others about the games.

It doesn't make sense at all.
It's crazy and I never like this dead person come back to life scene.
Why don't just let the dead people rest in peace?
If this is true (I certainly hope not),we might even see some zombies in the next game!
The other changes are acceptable for me,but Sarah is still alive?
Well, I really hope that it is just a rumor......

quote:

Originally posted by Si1entDark:
Warning - Spoilers Ahead



Okay the other day I came across a youtube video of what seemed to be another level walkthrough of the E3 demo. An Ubi Rep is talking the presenter through the different level stages while the presenter for the show translates.

Anyway towards the end when Sam is nearing Kobin's quarters where the projection of Sarah pops up the Rep says " So here again is another one of the cutscene/movie sequences telling the story of Sam's daughter, who he thought had died but had been kidnapped" "

Link here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...gyXLK0#t=06m27s

I was like

Take what you want from it. It sounds like its legit.

Who cares any more? let em do what they want, they're going to any ways.

quote:

Originally posted by gameIarry9:


Who cares any more? let em do what they want, they're going to any ways.

Exactly. Theyve gotten so big with their past success that they think they know what the fans want better than the fans themselves. Im excited for this game and i think the gameplay itself looks great. But if Sarah "dying" was a conspiracy then thats just lame...

quote:

Originally posted by Stealthgamer001:
Don't forget that when Sarah was "killed," Sam was away in Iceland. When he got back home, he was an emotional wreck, and had no reason to suspect any foul play. It's quite plausible that the NSA or whoever is responsible had the opportunity to pull something on Sam.

I don't think that even if he had suspected a foul play, he would have been able to investigate being that emotional wreck.

quote:

The concept of comming back to life after a fake death may sound like something that belongs in a soap opera, but I would wait until I know the entire plot before calling it stupid.

Exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by FrankieSatt:
Maybe YOU are fine with Ubi taking a great franchise and turning into an interactive game of "24" but the majority of us who want a REAL Splinter Cell game isn't.

No, I'm not "fine with Ubi taking a great franchise and turning it into an interactive version of 24" (I must have missed the episode in which Bauer's daughter is being captured because I don't recall such an event) but as long as I don't know if they really did that with Conviction, I prefer to withhold my judgement of this game, especially if Sarah's fate is only a part of said game.

quote:

This is what happens when you cater towards the "Casual Gamer", you end up taking a great series and "dumbing it down" not only game play wise but story line wise to bring in people who could care less about the series while alienating the ones who actually made this series popular by buying the games, playing the games, and telling others about the games.

That is your personal opinion and I respect that. However, I'm here since minute 1 of the game, I totally love Sam's character (he is in many aspects very much like myself - especially the dark humor) and although there might be some things I'm not really happy with (I would never have 'killed'(?) Sarah in the first place as it simply was far too soon, or I would have handled it different as in 'more dramatic' - if you like, search the forum to see what I mean) I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt when it comes to Conviction.

Still, I love the classic games - especially Chaos Theory but I prefer to keep an open mind and try something different (at the end, it's their artistic freedom to develope the game's characters & plot and people say 'Art is in the eye of the beholder').

Looking at the story of old gen DA version, they only mention the Death of Sam's daughter shortly. Nothing more. They do not say what happened when Sam come back home. Lots of things could happen. And how corrupt 3E is they could really fake all things and noone will say something against this. If Sam come home and she is already "buried", should Sam take a paddle and dig her up? I don't see Sam doing that but I could see how Sam would be angry why he couldn't see her last time.

If Hollywood never would come up with such plots, nobody would say that this story would be 'Hollywoodish'. Who knows that such things do not happen in real life? There are some guys who faked their death and also persons who are stated as "DEAD" but still living anywhere in a small dark room. Natascha Kampusch for example!

I would like to know Sam's daughter better. Perhaps it is a "Hollywood" story. Perhaps they made a story that wouldn't come up to our mind. We don't know. But well we will see if they have a unique story there.

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
(I must have missed the episode in which Bauer's daughter is being captured because I don't recall such an event)

You must have missed the whole 1st season then.