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Originally posted by JediWithASniper:

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And @ JediWithASniper you shouldnt attack young gamers,you were once 10,they have to start gaming sometime.

Correct, but even at that age, I understood what makes a game good. I didn't play on live then.

The kids I play with every single day are rarely mature enough to stop shouting "launch it!"

I have a few younger guys on my friends list, maybe 6 or 8 of em, but they are kids that have a brain on their shoulders, speak intelligently, and don't get on your nerves all the time. They make good analysis of games, and have well thought out opinions.

I have been on live for over a year now, and I have 6 or 8 of em. I have played with hundreds, and the majority of them yell, whine at you, pitch fits, do annoying things in the game, glitch, and don't have good opinions about games. The bigger the explosion, the more they like it.

I am attacking the mindset, not the ten year olds. I am saying that Ubisoft is gathering together that type of the bigger it explodes the better type of opinions.

this is exactly why i prefer PC gaming over console. Console systems are easy to use, require no work and need no knowledge of technology, and because of that fact they attract the younger crowd and every single time i am at someones house and play some halo or something on live they shout and scream and act like morons. i cant hold it against them, there 10 but with the pc 90% of the time you get a much more mature 17+ age group to play with.

i always see people saying they want inter pc/xbox live multi-player, personally i hope that never happens

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Originally posted by phil4321:
this is exactly why i prefer PC gaming over console. Console systems are easy to use, require no work and need no knowledge of technology, and because of that fact they attract the younger crowd and every single time i am at someones house and play some halo or something on live they shout and scream and act like morons. i cant hold it against them, there 10 but with the pc 90% of the time you get a much more mature 17+ age group to play with.

i always see people saying they want inter pc/xbox live multi-player, personally i hope that never happens

This couldn't be futher from the truth, have you not played Gary's Mod? Maybe watch this Phil Here and here unedited how did a 7 year old get on it then? litfuse films thought they would make satire out of it. You can go into Counter-Strike, BF2, Gary's Mod, Hl2 DM, and games like WoW where VOIP is activated, or use 3rd party and children are playing it on the PC, you can hear them on the mic, you even hear adults doing the same, speaking dirty with their foul mouths.

There is some elitism and beating of chests that PC is better then the console when it comes to player base, when many console gamers are PC gamers themselves. To say one does, and one doesn't is kinda warped. The PC platform is probably the biggest platform out there, much much bigger then the 14 million xbox 360's and 10 million PS3 currently in existence. There is more then 150 million PC's out there that people use to game on, statstisics used by Microsoft, when presenting their games for windows live and (live anywhere). Had you played shadow run cross-platform? No? It was pretty equal PC gamers berating console users, and vice versa, Gears of War PC, which VOIP is activated enough times americans have screamed abuse down the mic.

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i always see people saying they want inter pc/xbox live multi-player, personally i hope that never happens

Because someone on mic is screaming? When the common thing to do is mute them? be it PC on Counter-Strike, or Console platform Halo 3, that complaint works both ways. I personally would like to see cross-platform for games, why? Because the community is centralised, there is no segregation and you have a bigger community which everyone can play against each other seamlessly. Conviction team talked about cross-platform, if they're still doing that remains to be seen, but I would like to play some PC gamers, and wouldn't want that not to happen because some people cannot help but whine on the mic, which happens on all platforms to be quite honest with you. By the way, Need for Speed: Underground, and Final Fantasy online are cross-platform games which have no voip, unless you're on the console, and there is none of this screaming down the mic, likewise Call of Duty 4, Halo 3 gives console gamers a bad name. You don't judge all PC gamers by the Angry german kid who is a PC gamer do we? But hey you're free to generalise an entire platform by a few daft people, just don't expect it to be correct.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DixieWolf,

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am a lover of realism in a game, but not to an extent that it no longer becomes fun. But I will say this, I have yet to play a game that is so realistic, that it is not fun.

Ever tried America's Army?

Nope, I haven't. Or at least I don't think I have, sometimes I play demos and forget what they are, so it is possible I played it and don't remember.

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Originally posted by DixieWolf:

This couldn't be futher from the truth, have you not played Gary's Mod? Maybe watch this Phil Here and here unedited how did a 7 year old get on it then? litfuse films thought they would make satire out of it. You can go into Counter-Strike, BF2, Gary's Mod, Hl2 DM, and games like WoW where VOIP is activated, or use 3rd party and children are playing it on the PC, you can hear them on the mic, you even hear adults doing the same, speaking dirty with their foul mouths.

which is why i said 90% of the time people are ok. so 10% of that 150 million (15 million) are stupid little kids or immature adults who don't know how to respect other gamers and not act like idiotic fools just because they have a direct voice link to people they don't know.

as for your examples of games where pc gamers act in such a way..well

bf2 has alot of idiots yes, but in my many years playing it i rarely had people on voip talking like that kid in gary's mod.

CS,HL,GM, well i don't play any of these so i wouldn't know.

wow i played for 2 months and got sick of it, imo its a baby's game (hope im not offending any hardcore wow fans) but honestly i don't consider wow players, pc gamers. every single person i know who plays wow, only plays wow and nothing but, thats not a gamer thats a person whos addicted to world of warcraft. im not saying there aren't pc gamers out there who occasionally play wow, but they are few and far between. i was never in a situation where voip was enabled so i cant speak to level of maturity of wow players but from things ive read in the news about wow addiction and its impact it seems that yes alot of people are not mature and have their priorities in a knot. in my arguments defense though, this is a bad example on your part because well ...its world of warcraft.

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The PC platform is probably the biggest platform out there, much much bigger then the 14 million xbox 360's and 10 million PS3 currently in existence. There is more then 150 million PC's out there that people use to game on, statstisics used by Microsoft, when presenting their games for windows live and (live anywhere). Had you played shadow run cross-platform? No? It was pretty equal PC gamers berating console users, and vice versa, Gears of War PC, which VOIP is activated enough times americans have screamed abuse down the mic.

there were 24 million xboxs sold, 22 million game cubes, 18 million 360s, 10 million ps3's, 20million wii's ...hmm thats only 94 million, a little short, i must be forgetting...ah yes, the 120 million ps2's sold

what timeline is this 150 million PCs supposed to be in? since the release of modern 3d video games? or now at this very moment there are 150 million pc gaming computers out there?

even if that was the case lets assume that ps2 fans only buy ps3, xbox users only buy xbox 360 and gamecube people only buy wii

lets also assume that people who buy new consoles throw their other one away never to be used again

so after you do the math, i'll spare the forums all the writing, that leaves 166 million consoles being used, so dont say that the pc gaming community dwarfs the console gamers becasue its simply not true.

Playstation 2 has how many VOIP online games? There isn't many I know that has VOIP try playing Resident Evil Online there is no VOIP, NFS Underground? Socom is the only one I know. Yet the average age of that platform is again 18+. Likewise for Gamecube, where is the mic? Xbox, Xbox360 and PS3, have VOIP, I've not seen it on the Wii... Yet, though it is possible, just no way to do it. And even then the xbox/360/PS3 have an average age of 18+ With the nintendo Wii having an average of 29+ stats by Nintendo here.

So it is a minority of gamers who let it down for everyone, but you want to generalise those platforms by that minority. But you cannot simply generalise on age. 18 year olds and upwards are more detrimental then children in a lot of cases, for numerous reasons I won't list.

The list of games on PC where it happens is so many, the ones that you will hear about it often on console is Halo 3 and I know it does, not to say this doesn't happen on other games, because it sure does, but it is few and far between. Counter-Strike 1.6/source, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, HL2 DM, BF2, QW:ET, TF2, Red Orchestra I could go on, all have VOIP, and have people being stupid, it doesn't always happen though. I simply mute these silly people. Also if you play CS, you will now and then get people who create in-game sprays with some filthy image, that happens a heck of a lot, to the point on my clan server we disabled sprays because it was just too much.

My point here is, you said:

quote:

every single time i am at someones house and play some halo or something on live they shout and scream and act like morons. i cant hold it against them, there 10 but with the pc 90% of the time you get a much more mature 17+ age group to play with.

While this maybe your personal experience, my own personal one is different. I hear swearing and foul mouth in the above, so much so I had to buy headphones on the PC, so no one else in my household would have to hear such foul language, likewise for the console. But then to say "i always see people saying they want inter pc/xbox live multi-player, personally i hope that never happens" as a generalisation to almost say well PC is more mature? That would be hypocrisy, when the platform you use it happens on aswell! You cannot excuse it. WoW gamers are pretty mature, yet many that aren't Here is an example. There was also an article in the escapist about 2 years back about it, how a female gamer who used VOIP was ridiculed.

I don't makes excuses for these platforms, even attempt to do it, as people will be people, mute is your friend. As which is better, I "prefer" the console for this reason. If someone is being Racist, doing something that he/she shouldn't be with the camera I can bring up the dashboard, and file a complaint against that gamer, if that gamer gets enough complaints he/she will have that account suspended/destroyed. And believe me, no one wants to keep spending $50 or £33 on a new Gold subscription or even have the police come calling. On the PC all you can do is ban, and many seem to get away scot free, I don't like that.

sorry to say but on this kinda subject your a nub, the pc community has something called Ip ban.. and that doesn't make someone be "scott free "

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sorry to say but on this kinda subject your a nub, the pc community has something called Ip ban.. and that doesn't make someone be "scott free "

Um... In case you don't know, so does xbox 360.

ok I am going to ring in on this.

Tom Clancy games are fantastic. I love them all. They all provide solid gameplay, excellent online play and predictable controls that work.

Here are the 3 main Clancy games:

Ghost Recon- A special war team that was created to handle intense situations in combat that a standard military team couldn't handle.

Rainbow Six- A special Elite Anti-Terrorist group that handles situations too intense for standard S.W.A.T., Police or Bomb Squad Teams

Splinter Cell- A special NSA Agent, Sam Fisher, handles missions behind the scene that no one knows about and that no one can find out about. His identity is a mystery.

Now the easiest of all those to make new games for is Ghost Recon because there is so much you can do with that.

Next hardest would be Rainbow Six. How many times can you make a game where you go and just run around and shoot terrorists before it gets repetitive and boring? Don't get me wrong I love the R6 series and I own R6V and R6V2. But if you watch the reviews V2 didn't get as high of reviews as Vegas did because it didn't bring much innovation to the table compared to Vegas. Vegas introduced the amazing cover system. V2 played more of catch up: finally adding sprint and adding more guns. It was nothing overly special or ground breaking, unlike Vegas. Ubisoft now relies on the Multiplayer to carry the Vegas series. That is why the Single Player in V2 is short, so more focus is on the Multiplayer, which rocks btw.

The hardest to make is Splinter Cell. I remember playing SC1 for XBOX. I thought the game was the best game I had ever played. It was so innovative and ground breaking! There was nothing like it at the time. When Pandora Tomorrow released it was kinda like meh story line. Finally Multiplayer was introduced and that made it not so bad. Chaos Theory released and was absolutely fantastic. Best graphics I ever saw on an XBOX 1. New Multiplayer, new gadgets and options. Co-op was a huge push also for CT. But now what else could be added to keep the franchise fresh and fun? You already have good multi-player and co-op. So let's give the player the choice to choose which side they want to fight for, good or bad. In the end that really made little difference as choosing good over bad only gave you 1 extra level. DA relied on Multiplayer to carry that game, and the Multiplayer was good (on PS3 and 360, PC version). Unfortunately the XBOX, PS2 version of SCDA was probably one of the worst games I've ever played. Graphics looked worse than on CT. Multiplayer became terrible. Storyline was horrible. Overall DA on the XBOX, PS2 failed.

So now Ubi is in the same situation as after CT. What new can Ubi do to keep the franchise fresh and fun? How many times can you make games where all you do is run around in shadows before it gets boring? They already have solid multiplayer, in the 360/ps3 version, they can re-introduce co-op (that they for some reason left out of the 360/ps3 version). But then you basically have SCDA2. The series is showing it's age due to lack of innovation. That's why Ubi has turned to this new concept of stealth.

I am 19 and am actually interested to see the new stealth system. Albeit I don't want them to completely abandon the L/S system, I'd still like to see a few missions where you have to do that, this new system brings so many more options to the table. Real spies don't run around in shadows. Real spies walk around in crowds and you don't even know it. That is why Ubi is trying this new concept. I am looking forward to it. It sounds really cool. If they keep the Multiplayer the same from SCDA for 360 and add co-op (or make the co-op 2 splinter cell agents that's missions are all L/S) I predict one kick ass game!

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Real spies walk around in crowds and you don't even know it

Real Spies are clerks at Embassies, or technicians at ISPs tapping the interwebs. Not really interesting to play. Just as boring as walking in a crowd, because I did that today and it felt boring after 5 seconds.

Also Sam is not a regular spy he is a splinter cell.

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Originally posted by scworld:

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Real spies walk around in crowds and you don't even know it

Real Spies are clerks at Embassies, or technicians at ISPs tapping the interwebs.

You mean there aren't real field agents running around and snapping people necks?

Real world espionage techniques are very dynamic in nature. However nowadays , agents generally prefer to use the 'Social stealth' or 'blending in' with the 'crowd stealth' technique over the 'cover stealth' or 'Light and Shadow' techniques because of the fact that 'uncertainity' is comparitively less than the 'L&S' technique.But there are cases were agents had to depend solely on stealth techniques of Mgs(cover stealth) or Splintercell(l&s). If anyone outhere wants to have an idea of the 'real world espionage techniques', movies like 'Spygame'or reality tv shows like 'The Spy' can be of great help.

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Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:
Real world espionage techniques are very dynamic in nature. However nowadays , agents generally prefer to use the 'Social stealth' or 'blending in' with the 'crowd stealth' technique over the 'cover stealth' or 'Light and Shadow' techniques because of the fact that 'uncertainity' is comparitively less than the 'L&S' technique.But there are cases were agents had to depend solely on stealth techniques of Mgs(cover stealth) or Splintercell(l&s). If anyone outhere wants to have an idea of the 'real world espionage techniques', movies like 'Spygame'or reality tv shows like 'The Spy' can be of great help.

Wait a minute...how do u know so much..

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Originally posted by Agentx_OO3:
sorry to say but on this kinda subject your a nub, the pc community has something called Ip ban.. and that doesn't make someone be "scott free "

And you think you can stop bad people by IP ban? You have the cheek to call me a nub? Have not heard of a Rage clan called Myg0t, who can get around IP bans, SteamID bans, and do it on so many games upto including MMO games? No? You don't think idiots with cheats don't know how to do that? Servers where banning users a while back, the problem with IP bans is it becomes useless if you're using a dynamic Ip address. If you know how to get around steam ID's like they can, it's a waste of time trying to prevent it. That may sound like extreme cases, but I see it everytime I play Cs, a speed hacker will be in the server, boot/ban steam id and ip and what do yuo know? Hes back with a new Ip new Steam ID, the thing goes on Ad-nauseam till you either get fed up of it and leave, or lock the server. Which is neither fun nor practical. These guys do get off scot free, they aren't punished, they're still out there raging servers making peoples gaming fun miserable.

The difference with xboxlive is you need to pay a fee to play online, although you can use free trials, if I ban you and you come back with a new ip and name I can report that to MS. Enough complaints and they can simply ban the entire console from working on xboxlive for a certain period or for good. Thats a $300 paper weight, not many people are going to attempt to do that. Compare that to the PC, where gamers hack Punkbuster to get around the bans. It has been recent news that MS are reseting gamer scores where by the gamers have cheated, and their profile says they have cheated. They recently had an article about how they ban users and read complaints, there isn't a centralized system like that on PC games for a majority of titles, you simply have to deal with it.

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Originally posted by Hayden_v:

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Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:
Real world espionage techniques are very dynamic in nature. However nowadays , agents generally prefer to use the 'Social stealth' or 'blending in' with the 'crowd stealth' technique over the 'cover stealth' or 'Light and Shadow' techniques because of the fact that 'uncertainity' is comparitively less than the 'L&S' technique.But there are cases were agents had to depend solely on stealth techniques of Mgs(cover stealth) or Splintercell(l&s). If anyone outhere wants to have an idea of the 'real world espionage techniques', movies like 'Spygame'or reality tv shows like 'The Spy' can be of great help.

Wait a minute...how do u know so much..

'Interest', my friend .

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Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:

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Originally posted by Hayden_v:

quote:

Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:
Real world espionage techniques are very dynamic in nature. However nowadays , agents generally prefer to use the 'Social stealth' or 'blending in' with the 'crowd stealth' technique over the 'cover stealth' or 'Light and Shadow' techniques because of the fact that 'uncertainity' is comparitively less than the 'L&S' technique.But there are cases were agents had to depend solely on stealth techniques of Mgs(cover stealth) or Splintercell(l&s). If anyone outhere wants to have an idea of the 'real world espionage techniques', movies like 'Spygame'or reality tv shows like 'The Spy' can be of great help.

Wait a minute...how do u know so much..

'Interest', my friend .

The truth is that there is different spies for different things and I doubt the US government will let us know what kind of spies they are and if they even exist.

On types of spies:

well yes, some spies walk around in crowds being noticed but quickly forgotten, maybe their following someone or trying to get somewhere over a long distance. This is not the type of spy sam fisher is though, he is deployed on intelligence gathering missions inside highly restricted areas, or areas where he must remain a complete ghost and leave no trace of his work.
you will never see sam fisher.

he has a highly specialized set of skills that are only practical in certain and very few scenarios. that being said there is probably soo few people that can do this type of work and soo much work to be done that it probably keeps sam busy year round.

another person commented on the difficulty of making sequels for Tom Clancy games while still keeping things fresh and new. Ghost Recon being easier and splinter cell being hardest. this couldn't be more true, i was commenting earlier in this thread about the very small fan base of die hard SC fans. the truly hardcore sc fans out there would gladly play "chaos theory 2" after "chaos theory 3" after "chaos theory 4" with out a problem, but alot of people out there don't like the repetitive gameplay despite the fresh story, gadgets, gameplay mechanics, graphics, and ideas. i can understand this but to those people i have to say, go play AC or velvet assassin (or w/e its called). But ubi wants to make money on their games which i can also understand (every one needs to get payed) but it is definitely at the expense of the gamers who love SC for the idea of a guy with a 30 year military background working for the NSA as a black ops agent.

i always see people requesting to see sam in other roles but you need to understand that sam was a "VETERAN" of the CIA' Directorate of Operations, so if the nsa recruits him out of there then maybe you start to understand the level of fishers skill and the kind of life he has lead. thats what makes this game so bad*ss its not the gadgets, places, people, gameplay ect, its the man, the job, and who he works for.

conviction will be good but i just wish he was still with the nsa, hes getting old but thats no excuse, hes still in better shape than any 51 year old out there, he could kick the hell out of any 22 year old and the older you get in this type of work the more dangerous the missions you get.

fyi the oldest active duty seal retired a few years back, he was 60

he will probably return to the NSA either on SC6

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Originally posted by ERN456:
he will probably return to the NSA either on SC6

Or maybe even before the ending of this one..