I believe that because we'll never see another SC title as the first three games, the franchise will likely end after Conviction. The kind of gameplay that Conviction has presented is a lot more different than the first three and even more than SCDA itself. It may be said that it'll feel more like Metal Gear Solid because those titles are what offer both day and light environments and allow you to use combat as well as offer a great deal of weapons. Rather than SCC taking a completely new approach for any Stealth game, it feels more like MGS than SC. Konami and Kojima Productions' MGS4 will definitely crush Ubisoft and Ubisoft Montreal's SCC. Hell, MGS4 may be the biggest game of next year, considering the fact that this is the last entry in the MG franchise of Kojima's.

The only different thing that we've never seen in any stealth game, so far, is the crowd feature, but it's hardly anything that can actually defeat all of the other games. SCC's concept is practically nothing compared to that of MGS4's.

And the fact that Tom Clancy is beginning to hold more titles with his name labeled on them (EndWar and Air Combat are the newest entries) still doesn't guarantee anyone that they (Ubisoft) will make the best titles of the genres that these games are focused on. I think that the fact is simply having a story and concept being too close to reality is not original enough, so this is why we see Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, and many other titles better than this as they are magical realism or just complete fantasy.

Maybe it's not accurate enough to say anything about all of these upcoming Tom Clancy titles yet, but I just do believe that they won't be the biggest put-together games for next year.

And where can Sam Fisher's direction be taken to match the name "Splinter Cell" and add back the L&S mechanics? If Ubisoft doesn't come out with a prequel to SCDA or of any other game (they could show maybe what happens between SC and SCPT or between SCPT and SCCT, for example, within the year that we don't hear what is going on with Sam Fisher). Other than that, I don't see any better alternatives nor will continuing Sam Fisher as a fugitive, in the other games, or even as a criminal, help solve anything. They could also bring in a new character, but that would make the most of us dissapointed, now wouldn't it?

Possibly, after SCC or a little later, a new stealth Tom Clancy franchise will need to be born because this franchise has become smaller than it used to be.

I think prequals are the way to go now, they can use light and shadow for sneaking missions and the crowd mechanic for more open 'Bond' like missions where Sam could scout an area or follow a known terrorist while he meets a contact.
How cool would it be to play missions based around Fisher meeting Shetland for the first time in the Gulf War or an earlier version of third echelon when he first meets Lambert, you could even have a huge flashback mission where Sam mentions his wife has just given birth to a baby girl.
Theres so much in both Sams history and actual world history that they could use

I'm glad that you're at least the first person to actually post in this topic. If you look at most of Conviction's other topics, they're just criticisms of the game and have no solutions of what Ubisoft Montreal can do to make a comeback with the kinds of gameplay that we used to love about SC as a stealth franchise. It would make a true difference, if they found a way to bring that all back and help make us all relieved as well as proud and happy again to see the kind of SC that we've come to love.

I would say try to stop comparing MGS and SC. Both games are even more completely different than from before. I dont think I have played anything in this type of situation in a MGS game.

Because I dont really know whats going on with the game, SCC, I would rather wait and see the ending of the game to see if a sequel is going to be made to it or not.

winter splinter has made a good point IMO.

ubisoft keeps stressing the point about 'developing sam fisher's character' but it seems that they are missing the point by bringing the story into the future and neglecting parts in dialogue and other cut scenes of past SC games which have a lot of potential to develop sam.

UBI is doing somethings right and somethings wrong with the splinter Cell series. You can even find professionals who agree that their new direction is questionable.

I agree with them. SCC is no long Splinter Cell, and it's gameplay is comepletly different. While, it's a good idea to keep things fresh in a series, it's also very important to know what makes the series unique. A perfect example is Mario Sunshine.

While it was still Mario, you had a thing on your back to spray away paint. Mario was never about spraying paint. It was about platform jumping. Mario Sunshine did not sell well at all because of that fact. As a result, Nintendo has gone back to what made Mario so great. Jumping around.

Ubisoft is trying something new, and trying to develop a new gameplay style in a series that had it's own unique gameplay. This is confusing to not only the old players but new players who will join at SCC and say, hey this is fun lets get the other ones. Sadly, they will find that it's not the same experience at all.

Final Fantasy, Zelda, Pokemon, all have similar themes and style. You play one, you've basically played them all. That's what a series is. The change to the series is what will confuse many players.

While the game is still relatively unknown, most know it'll be based on crowd mechanics, although there are rumors stating that the game isn't all crowd, and you will be back in splinter cell. The concerns for many isn't all just the gameplay. Ubi isn't exactly known for their incredible AI either.

In anycase, the SplinterCell franchise will most likely go dormant or get overhauled again back into what it used to be. The Tom Clancy Franchise as a whole, really isn't that bad seeing as most are based off Tom Clancy novels. Which if I were them, I'd focus on making a Hunt for the Red October game. Plus, though it's been milked, but what series hasn't, all other Tom Clancy games haven't gone different routes in Gameplay. Only SplinterCell has suffered that fate.

Put both the gameplay styles together, I'm not talking about making Sam into a Bond like character that has lunch with the guy he'll eventually kill but have a 70/30 split in light and shadows favour and crank up the drama for the daytime missions so it feels like theres a real need to complete them.

That's the thing. The say that you play some levels as a Splinter Cell. So maybe that's what they have done. The one thing that's for sure though is that the wonderful, award winning multiplayer action that was so successful in PT and CT is gone. That fact alone lost numerous fans already.
I am not familiar with any company, not going with and trying to expand an award winning gameplay experience. Just doesn't make sense. I guess there's a first for everything.

Dr Cactus I agree 100%

I think that the gameplay for Spy vs Mercs was groundbreaking and had too much of a following to change it.

The Conviction multiplayer sounds very Bourne esque so far and again future games should combine the two and present players with a choice, I dont know much about writing code but I'd say once the softwares there then the rest is easy you can keep going back to the well and designing new and better maps.

I agree also.

I think that UBI wants to generate as much money from there products as possible too.

And the Dr. is right. SC's AI has always had it's problems.

And I don't see things changing anytime soon. If anyone can imagine this crowd stealth. Then they realize that if the AI is weak then the game is going to suck. Plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Assaultmachine1:
I'm glad that you're at least the first person to actually post in this topic. If you look at most of Conviction's other topics, they're just criticisms of the game and have no solutions of what Ubisoft Montreal can do to make a comeback with the kinds of gameplay that we used to love about SC as a stealth franchise. It would make a true difference, if they found a way to bring that all back and help make us all relieved as well as proud and happy again to see the kind of SC that we've come to love.

They said that after SCC they "will build a new hero" you can explain this sentence either by that the SC series will come to its end (which is more likley) or that SC6(?) would be a "back to basics" game (which isn't that likely).

Of course i really want the 2nd option. Or at least they would start a new Splinter Cell series known as "Splinter Cell 2" which will have a new hero and all. and Prequels are cool too much like Essentials had a couple...

quote:

Originally posted by DrCactus:
UBI is doing somethings right and somethings wrong with the splinter Cell series. You can even find professionals who agree that their new direction is questionable.

I agree with them. SCC is no long Splinter Cell, and it's gameplay is comepletly different. While, it's a good idea to keep things fresh in a series, it's also very important to know what makes the series unique. A perfect example is Mario Sunshine.

While it was still Mario, you had a thing on your back to spray away paint. Mario was never about spraying paint. It was about platform jumping. Mario Sunshine did not sell well at all because of that fact. As a result, Nintendo has gone back to what made Mario so great. Jumping around.

Ubisoft is trying something new, and trying to develop a new gameplay style in a series that had it's own unique gameplay. This is confusing to not only the old players but new players who will join at SCC and say, hey this is fun lets get the other ones. Sadly, they will find that it's not the same experience at all.

Final Fantasy, Zelda, Pokemon, all have similar themes and style. You play one, you've basically played them all. That's what a series is. The change to the series is what will confuse many players.

While the game is still relatively unknown, most know it'll be based on crowd mechanics, although there are rumors stating that the game isn't all crowd, and you will be back in splinter cell. The concerns for many isn't all just the gameplay. Ubi isn't exactly known for their incredible AI either.

In anycase, the SplinterCell franchise will most likely go dormant or get overhauled again back into what it used to be. The Tom Clancy Franchise as a whole, really isn't that bad seeing as most are based off Tom Clancy novels. Which if I were them, I'd focus on making a Hunt for the Red October game. Plus, though it's been milked, but what series hasn't, all other Tom Clancy games haven't gone different routes in Gameplay. Only SplinterCell has suffered that fate.

I posted this in another thread about Sc as a franchise and sorry to go over old ground but I think that a combination of thr two gameplay styles would make for a brilliant game.

Sam is back as a Splinter Cell, the best example I can think of off the top of my head is the end of Pandora Tomorrow; what if just after Sam has killed Soth the mission still hasnt ended; there are a few more terrorists around LAX maybe; in the cut scene Sam puts an airport maintainance outfit over his tac suit and wanders out into the airport.
At this point it could switch to social stealth, Sams got to identify the terrorists and lure them away from the crowd cuz dispensing with them in plain sight would be non too clever, have a mission with targets and objectives with the Conviction gameplay and at the end of that mission something happens which causes Sam to shed his overalls, hood up, goggles on lets find a shadow, it would work, you'd just need to find a story that supported it.

I am not saying you should re-do PT, its just an example.

I'd also like to see in the future; prequals based around Sams past, I've thought of loads of examples for this taken from dialogue from the games. Another idea would be a quasi tactical element added to the game by having Sam pick his loadout from Redding/Coen/Wilkes -depending on when the mission was set- there should be a less linear route through missions which includes you planning when to try and act as a civilian and when to don the rubber. In Splinter Cell Checkmate Sam makes a last minute decision to add a compact parafoil to his pack- my brother swears thats what the criss cross stuff is on his standard tac suit, he says its obviously a harness and a chute, he jumps out of planes, I don't- and as a result of this when he gets trapped in the penthouse suite of the worlds tallest hotel he is able to dive over the rail and escape via plan B.

Basically you would be set primary and secondary objectives and then pick where to infiltrate be it by parachute onto a roof, through a garage side entrance under cover or by walking into a public lobby area as a civvy -enter Conviction gameplay- finding somewhere to hide till nightfall -in the first SC novel the story opens with Sam asleep in an air vent in a broom cupboard where he's been waiting for several hours for the casino he's in to quiet down- and then carry on with light and shadow gameplay for the mission. Then for exfiltration you could have chosen say a car for a straight getaway, the compact parafoil for a roof exit, you could walk out the front door ina change of clothes and blend into the crowd with guards after you social stealth style or maybe the building is near a harbour where some fins and an air tank have been stashed so Sam can swim out to his handler underwater and escape by boat. Maybe you could have any one of these as a backup plan also. I've obviously been thinking about this too much and my grammar is awful but my girlfriend and I have been up all night with our baby boy and I cant sleep so go easy on flaming me if you think all this is ****

That does sound a bit like Hitman, Winter_Splinter. (And congratulations on your new baby! )

There is one issue, however. I think there is a very high chance that there is going to be a SC6, and it is most likely that Shanghai would be producing it and that they would have started it right after releasing X360's Double Agent. Given the trend of alternating Montreal and Shanghai, this seems most likely the case. And so, we can assume then, that SCC will end up with a lead off to SC6, and that the storyline would most probably be set.

Having a storyline where Sam recalls previous missions is good, but seems a bit pointless, like the missions just for mission sake. Unless, there was some giant ulterior consiracy that began since SC1.

It is very Hitman Zephyrus your right, it might keep everyone except us purists happy though, what does everyone else think, what should the next game be?

quote:

Originally posted by Winter_Splinter:
It is very Hitman Zephyrus your right, it might keep everyone except us purists happy though, what does everyone else think, what should the next game be?

I'd like to see a return of the classic L&S (duh), even if the "new" style stays. Of course, Ubi already knows what they're going to do - if they're doing another SC, they're probably a decent way into it already.

Unfortunately, it's likely that if there is a SC6 being made, then it's being made by Shanghai.

quote:

Originally posted by Aj6627:
Unfortunately, it's likely that if there is a SC6 being made, then it's being made by Shanghai.

Shanghai's never done anything to hurt me...I play on consoles, and only SP.

Wow a serious MGS fanboy on the forum, that has what I want. A good opinion from a neutral person. MGS is a typical sci-fi asian game series... somewhat realistic with stupid bosses and characters like wolf ladies, bio mechanic robots and mutants , and this is what you compare Splinter Cell with point taken

Hands up for Assaultmachine1 for this years best comparing

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TFS_Jackie,

The thing is, the moment Shanghai released PT, they started work on Xbox1-DA. And it is highly likely that they've started work in SC6 the moment they've finished Xbox1-DA. So it is going to be quite hard to affect what Ubisoft's direction's going to be. It is quite likely that they've already come out with the storyline, characters, gameplay, basically the theoratical bit for SC6 already.

Plus, since Ubisoft has announced to lock Sam's age at 42, it is very likely that the future storylines will be forward, not prequels. Since if they wanted to do prequels, they'd just let him age on, but concentrate on his younger days. And because of the age-lock, look forward to seeing a few more SC titles to come. A computer game developer doesn't lock a character's age just so that they can finish one more game, it usually means that they have a whole lot more plans for Sam, and if he was to age naturally, he would be too ridiculously old to seem possible. (Abraham Simpson as a Splinter Cell, anyone? )

For the time being, we can only wait till SCC comes out, and only then can we predict which way the storyline will go. It may be very likely that at the end of SCC, he joins back with Third Echelon, or even "Fourth Echelon", perhaps. But it is very likely that this crowd stealth isn't a one off SCC thing only. Future games will definitely be moderately to heavily dependant on "Crowd Stealth", as AI and scripting capabilities improve.

Of course, if he does join back with the government, I'm expecting to see a slightly more restrained Fisher, like mission objectives that expect no civilian casualties. There may also be missions with assassination objectives, like the African mission in X360-DA.

But there will still be Light and Shadow, with that you can be assured, but it may be of a more general form. If by the end of SCC he joins back with the government, he'll get back his goggles and gear, and missions will take advantage of that. But there may also be James Bond-style missions, to take effect of the Crowd Control. Heck, some mission might even be a mixture of both at different parts of the mission, for example, blending in with the crowd at an Olympic game event, but shifting to hardcore-Splinter-Cell-mode when the mission takes a turn.

My bet is that he would join back with the government at the end of SCC, or if not, be inclined to. Ubisoft would definitely still keep to the Light and Shadow, that's for sure, but they would also incorporate more Crowd Stealth to make use of the better AI.