Does anyone know if Ubi plan to mix both types of stealth into the game? I have seen that many of you have mentioned that Sam will probably need to infiltrate some buildings... and that could be an opportunity to incorporate some L&S stealth gameplay. It's obviously not practical to walk in Washington Park with SC goggles etc and so L&S in all missions may defeat the purpose and point of the game, but is it not possible that Sam somehow gets a hold of some of his old gear and uses it in some missions when away from the crowd? May need a bigger bag to carry it around perahps but at least it keeps everyone happy. Or wouldn't it?

I think the chances of light and shadow getting into ConViction are slim to none.

With the current button scheme they've shared with us, if you were inside of a building trying to get from room to room, you'd have to constantly be using the stealth button I think. I don't know though.

And from what I've heard, shadows don't matter anymore. People can still see you even when you're fully immersed in them, so turning off all the lights wouldn't matter because the guards or cops in the building would still be able to see you just as if it was bright as day.

I don't know, we'll all find out sometime, hopefully sooooon.

The best experience would be if they could combine both. Completely losing L&S stealth would ruin the game for me. It just wouldn’t be Splinter Cell then. Making it dependant on the mission or on whether or not Sam is in a ‘restricted’ area, sort of like they did in DA might work. For social stealth, I foresee something akin to Assassin’s Creed. Running, climbing, fighting, sneaking, using a gadget, or pulling a weapon are suspicious behaviors and will draw attention. Walking slowly with your hood up over your head will let you go unnoticed.

As to combining them, I would think that L&S would trump social stealth. If you were invisible from an L&S standpoint, none of the actions that would normally draw attention from a social standpoint would matter. I’d be a two (or three) step process to determine if you were ‘visible’, and I really don’t know how hard it would be to program, but it could make the game more of a challenge trying to balance the two, if done right (i.e., you are trying to sneak into a dimly lit restricted area under guard from a well lit public space, you don’t want the guards to see you trying to gain entrance, but until you are in, your in full view of civilians on the street).

I see it happening, no doubt.

There are only so many different social missions they can come up with.

Along the way, there has got to be a part of the story that is impossible to do in a social aspect. For example, like infiltrating the White House or something to buy out the president and get a pardon. You can't tell me they'll design that into a social stealth mission where he goes in with a tourist group and then jumps into the president's bedroom when no one is looking. That would be nonsensical.

Not every part of the plot will be able to adapt to the social concept, so there will probably be three or four missions where you drop off the radar and sneak around old style a bit.

Also, Lauren, I see your point but disagree. It is mentioned that there will be buttons for specific non-context-sensitive actions such as talking to NPCs, getting on a computer terminal, attaching to a wall, or pulling out your gun, which would be impossible to put in the three main buttons because they are constant and you should be able to pull out your gun at any given second without having to worry about what social mode you're in.

They wouldn't exclude light and shadow missions simply because it can't fit in the button scheme. That would be very limited, and they've proven many times before that they're not limited.

Like I said, I see it happening. Anyone agree?

Now I think it'd be kinda fun to try and buy out the president... I'll try it with Bush, he'd fall for anything.

To answer your question with something not based on my opinion, go read Vth_F_Smith's post on the thirteenth page of From ConViction Team (stickied to the top)

He quotes an article about a mission where you have to deal with line of sight stealth.

I guess I was right, we will be seeing traditional stealth here.

Wow... Texas, you threw my button scheme argument out the window.

I'm on the boat now, I guess it is possible.

Not that I was happy that I wasn't on the boat in the first place. I definitely would like to see a few traditional missions, and I wasn't really enjoying the fact that I was arguing that we probably wouldn't be seeing them.

Never mind me, I'm hopeless

... Texas?

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
... Texas?

Referring to Dallas perhaps?

But back on topic, i do agree with you Dallas, and i think it would be smart to use both types primarily because of what you said (and i think i said in the original post). Sam wouldn't have a crowd to blend into inside a building where he needs a document, or needs to hack a computer or something.

I also think it satisfies all parties: people who hate the new idea and loved the traditional SCs and the people who are open to the new style and perhaps liked the L&S.

With regards to the three buttons... given the time they have worked on it, it seems a lot has been changed, and they may have scrapped the three button idea. I agree with Dallas, Ubi wouldn't say no to L&S because of controls, i think controls should be a walk in the park since they've been doing the L&S controls for years. I mean they could easily switch the controls when he is off the street... quite like you switch controls when driving in GTA games compared with when you're running. Ubi even did that in the HQ missions, Sam was allowed to walk freely in the common rooms (quite like social stealth... since it's socially acceptable there) but once Sam is in the restricted areas the stealth controls are accessible. So it can surely be possible to integrate.

I think Ubi could see sense to mix the two types, i think it could really work. So i hope to see that... I also recall Smith mentioning something about a midnight mission in which Smith says he sees moonlight (my memory tells me the topic was something related to a "light source"). I cannot find the topic but i saw it as a hint to some L&S... or if it isn't L&S then it's some form of stealth away from crowds... but who knows at this stage

Lol, I know he was referring to me, it's just that that's kind of unusual, never been called that before.

The crowd/stealth mode controls, I actually was thinking the same thing too but didn't want to mention it because I thought people would think I'm crazy. And I totally wasn't even thinking that it's already been done in the HQ missions.

Though, just for humor I think it would actually be really funny if it wasn't area based and you could have a button that could switch you from crowd to stealth controls at will, kind of like in Prince of Persia going from Light to Dark Prince mode, and I just think it'd be funny to see Sam crouching and stalking a policeman, and everyone off to the side staring at him like he's insane XD

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
Lol, I know he was referring to me, it's just that that's kind of unusual, never been called that before.

Fair enough, but isn't LaurenIsSoMosh a girl? Lol

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
The crowd/stealth mode controls, I actually was thinking the same thing too but didn't want to mention it because I thought people would think I'm crazy. And I totally wasn't even thinking that it's already been done in the HQ missions.

Though, just for humor I think it would actually be really funny if it wasn't area based and you could have a button that could switch you from crowd to stealth controls at will, kind of like in Prince of Persia going from Light to Dark Prince mode, and I just think it'd be funny to see Sam crouching and stalking a policeman, and everyone off to the side staring at him like he's insane XD

Well I suppose that kind of thing can become really fun when the gamer is in that mood yeah.

People on here may not approve of the whole DA-HQ idea and i say that because i recall seeing a few say that they thought the idea of walking around was a waste of time. I think the idea wasn't bad, but i do agree it didn't fit into an L&S game. However, since ConViction is a social stealth game, the idea could fit in very well if they were to merge the L&S in. It may not have fit in with DA because DA was primarily the old style game play.

I also think Ubi seriously considered incorporating both gameplay types (i say considered as opposed to considering, since they must have made some decent progress by now). They say they've read the boards, and i think they were hit badly when they saw the response despite a good number (including myself) that like the new idea. So i think they've re-thought what they are doing, and could quite well have decided to do exactly what we have just been discussing

Check his profile lol, says male.

And I couldn't agree with you more about reading the boards and getting all this flaming.

It's totally risky stepping out like they have and remaking the series, but it's so shocking that the people that flame the most are the ones who've loved it since the start. You'd think they'd actually be the ones supporting the most.

quote:

Originally posted by jaid4:
Fair enough, but isn't LaurenIsSoMosh a girl? Lol

... no, I'm a guy.

Lol, I was named after my grandfather, back in the day when it was still mostly a guy's name.

quote:

Originally posted by jaid4:
I also recall Smith mentioning something about a midnight mission in which Smith says he sees moonlight (my memory tells me the topic was something related to a "light source"). I cannot find the topic but i saw it as a hint to some L&S... or if it isn't L&S then it's some form of stealth away from crowds... but who knows at this stage

Eh, that was something that Vth wrote up himself as a suggestion.

A very good suggestion I might add.

quote:

Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:

quote:

Originally posted by jaid4:
Fair enough, but isn't LaurenIsSoMosh a girl? Lol

... no, I'm a guy.

Lol, I was named after my grandfather, back in the day when it was still mostly a guy's name.

Oh dear, that's embarrassing on my part. Apologies LaurenIsSoMosh

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
It's totally risky stepping out like they have and remaking the series, but it's so shocking that the people that flame the most are the ones who've loved it since the start. You'd think they'd actually be the ones supporting the most.

Perhaps, but I think they're just ticked off because they are not going to be given a new next-gen version of what they love. I mean a lot of people say 'well no-one is stopping you from playing SC', and i understand that but it's tedious playing the same game over again when the missions are the same. So i think they're just annoyed because SC L&S pretty much ends here (or at least they're told that).

Forgiven ^.^

My wide range of emotions involves everything of rage and lame crying and doing the waffle and even awkward, unexplained whipping gestures...

You're not the first person to do it. Like back in sixth grade, the nurse called over the intercom and asked Lauren to come to the office so she could have her eye exam. That was the first of many. And I laugh every time, it's really funny honestly =p

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
Lol, I know he was referring to me, it's just that that's kind of unusual, never been called that before.

The crowd/stealth mode controls, I actually was thinking the same thing too but didn't want to mention it because I thought people would think I'm crazy. And I totally wasn't even thinking that it's already been done in the HQ missions.

Though, just for humor I think it would actually be really funny if it wasn't area based and you could have a button that could switch you from crowd to stealth controls at will, kind of like in Prince of Persia going from Light to Dark Prince mode, and I just think it'd be funny to see Sam crouching and stalking a policeman, and everyone off to the side staring at him like he's insane XD

I agree the button thing would be cool. Like a real spy would be able to do if he was trying to infultrate a building. He could naturally go past the building in a crowd and slip out near the gates and be in stealth mode sneaking around in the shadows...it should be made so that it is close as possible to real so you can choose ur behaviour.

Soron came up with the idea originally that you could travel through the crowds, drop into a dark alley and go into stealth mode, and then emerge on the other side back in social mode.

It could be fun but I'd rather see it restricted to specific missions, not just at any time you choose. Or else we could be slithering up on police like Dallas said, and there's almost no way to tell how a crowd would react to that strange behavior XD

It's for the same reason why they restricted tables to specific places, because if you could manage to roll a table all the way into the middle of the park and duck under it, getting a realistic crowd reaction would be impossible.

It's said that the entire game is broken down into 60 "episodes" and the first twelve of them are spend at the NSA, before you depart on your own. And for the time you're there, having a crowd inside the NSA, especially inside Third Echelon, would be unlikely. I think you'll have to get inside the NSA with social behavior, except you're not a wanted man yet so you wouldn't be sneaking in, and then the new guys in charge will make you slap on your gear and run the training course again to make sure you're not rusty, and maybe they'll even send you on a mission that takes up six or seven episodes and that's when you'll learn they're all corrupt and everything, telling you it's okay to shoot civilians to redeem their souls and that anyone who shoots back is a heretic. They've gone all Crusades on missions and so you quit, and of course quitting is treason and heresy, and so they decide to make you a wanted man so that you can be condemned.

And then from there it's mostly social stealth, with a few episodes here and there of light and shadow.

yeah but free choice would be a nice thing to see. in real life you wouldn't do that kind of stuff because you'd be looked at weirdly or arrested but you could still try...and most ppl who want to play seriously would behave like you would normally act in that sitution.