quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:
The changes in Conviction from the usual format of Splinter Cell are fully constructive developments from the story of DA, it make sense why Sam Fisher is situated in such position in Conviction. From the interviews I have watched, the NSA are involved with the story, and Sam Fisher is still involved with the politics and networks he has been dealing with fro the last games.

The issue is not whether or not the story makes sense. The issue is them ******* with the gameplay.

They could have kept a classic feel with the new storyline. But, they didn’t. Thus, many disappointed L&S players.

Aye.

But has there been confirmed that light and shadow would no longer play the important factors of your visibility in Conviction?

Edit: Re-written so it might be better understood.

quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:
Aye.

But has there been confirmed that light and shadow would no longer play the important factors of your visibility in Conviction?

Edit: Re-written so it might be better understood.

Based on what Ubi has said, and not said (as in "Don't worry, there’s still light and shadow!"), my understanding is that L&S is out.

quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:

quote:

Originally posted by shadow_ninja961:
It doesn't matter if Conviction turns out to be a great game or not. The fact is Splinter Cell started out as a stealth game.Sneaking around in the dark using cool gadgets and aquiring intelligence data for the NSA.Sam was a secret agent working for the US gov. And that is what i for one was drawn to the series for.

Now if UBI wants to make a new kind of game where you are a rogue agent,not affiliated anymore with the NSA,and no more ninja suit,no sneaking around with cool gadgets,,,i'm all for it.But please don't call it Splinter Cell if its no longer what makes Splinter Cell,Splinter Cell.

Chocolate chip cookies are great.But if in the process of trying to improve it,the choco chips are removed,then i don't want it either.

This is the same.If you want to make a new kind of game and start a new franchise,great. But please keep the aspects that make Splinter Cell what it is intact.


And i like Double Agent for Xbox alot.Especially in Elite mode.

The changes in Conviction from the usual format of Splinter Cell are fully constructive developments from the story of DA, it make sense why Sam Fisher is situated in such position in Conviction. From the interviews I have watched, the NSA is involved with the story, and Sam Fisher is still involved with the politics and networks he has been dealing with from the last games.

Unless the story in Conviction developed too farfetched, I find it acceptable to have Sam Fisher as a fugitive in Conviction and title the game under the Splinter Cell series.

I don’t think Splinter Cell to me necessary just mean Ninja Suite and hide in the dark and I look forward to the changes from Conviction, rather than another clone-ish Splinter Cell with updated graphic and AI.

Thats your opinion and your welcome to it.

But i'd really like to know what percentage of Splinter Cell fans want the franchise to stay true to its origins and what percentage want it to become something alien to its origins.

To me,In my opinion,from what i've seen and read so far about conviction,it is becoming alien to its origins.

And like i said before,i don't care if conviction is a great game or not,its just not what i want in a Splinter Cell game.
I've been a hard core Splinter Cell fan from the beginning.But it may be the end of the line for my continuing loyalty to it.
Its the same reason i never got DA for Xbox360.And i won't be getting conviction unless by some stroke of genius on UBI's part,they return to the formula that made me want it to begin with.

But it was a good run and i'm sorry to see what i liked about it come to an end.If it is.

quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:

quote:

Originally posted by shadow_ninja961:
It doesn't matter if Conviction turns out to be a great game or not. The fact is Splinter Cell started out as a stealth game.Sneaking around in the dark using cool gadgets and aquiring intelligence data for the NSA.Sam was a secret agent working for the US gov. And that is what i for one was drawn to the series for.

Now if UBI wants to make a new kind of game where you are a rogue agent,not affiliated anymore with the NSA,and no more ninja suit,no sneaking around with cool gadgets,,,i'm all for it.But please don't call it Splinter Cell if its no longer what makes Splinter Cell,Splinter Cell.

Chocolate chip cookies are great.But if in the process of trying to improve it,the choco chips are removed,then i don't want it either.

This is the same.If you want to make a new kind of game and start a new franchise,great. But please keep the aspects that make Splinter Cell what it is intact.


And i like Double Agent for Xbox alot.Especially in Elite mode.

The changes in Conviction from the usual format of Splinter Cell are fully constructive developments from the story of DA, it make sense why Sam Fisher is situated in such position in Conviction. From the interviews I have watched, the NSA is involved with the story, and Sam Fisher is still involved with the politics and networks he has been dealing with from the last games.

Unless the story in Conviction developed too farfetched, I find it acceptable to have Sam Fisher as a fugitive in Conviction and title the game under the Splinter Cell series.

I don’t think Splinter Cell to me necessary just mean Ninja Suite and hide in the dark and I look forward to the changes from Conviction, rather than another clone-ish Splinter Cell with updated graphic and AI.

You can't seriously think Ubi will let something as insignificant as storyline get in the way of gameplay, can you? I've said it before, Ubi hasn't made this move based on the story, the story has just followed suit. In fact, something I just thought of, Montreal may well have told Shanghai to include the fugitive thing in the end. Both versions of DA end with Sam on the run, though with different implications. To me, it makes sense that while developing Conviction (which was started around the same time as DA), Montreal told Shanghai to make Sam on the run at the end of the game to lead onto Conviction but in the end decided to incorporate it into their game (hence the lack of fluency between storylines).

Sorry for going off on a tangent there, the point of my post originally was that Ubi isn't going to drastically change the gameplay to suit a story.

I like both XB360 SC DA and old gen SC DA.

However, it is SC C where I leave the franchise
as a SC fan. Ubi, can write me off as a customer.

quote:

Originally posted by shadow_ninja961:

quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:

quote:

Originally posted by shadow_ninja961:
...

...

Thats your opinion and your welcome to it.

But i'd really like to know what percentage of Splinter Cell fans want the franchise to stay true to its origins and what percentage want it to become something alien to its origins.

To me,In my opinion,from what i've seen and read so far about conviction,it is becoming alien to its origins.

And like i said before,i don't care if conviction is a great game or not,its just not what i want in a Splinter Cell game.
I've been a hard core Splinter Cell fan from the beginning.But it may be the end of the line for my continuing loyalty to it.
Its the same reason i never got DA for Xbox360.And i won't be getting conviction unless by some stroke of genius on UBI's part,they return to the formula that made me want it to begin with.

But it was a good run and i'm sorry to see what i liked about it come to an end.If it is.

Likewise.

To me, Splinter Cell has taken a good and logical step into their development. They have concluded four games based on their traditional formula, the change of feel was a good move to keep the series developed instead of making more Splinter Cell clones, and rightfully so by the story throughout the series so far.

Some of us might love Splinter Cell’s L&S stealth features from the earlier games, but Splinter Cell as a game it's is not just about L&S.

None of us really know how the L&S aspect of stealth is being played out in SC: C, we are judging it based on the media that has been giving to us at this stage, in which, a lot of the negative posts about the impression of Splinter Cell being changed in Conviction is based in insecurity from fans, or simply from others who wants more the same of SC 1, 2, 3 and 4.

Beside this point, you simply can not speak behave of a significant "percentage" of Splinter Cell fans based on the complaints and posts here and or from other minor communities; the people who are interested and would buy Splinter Cell games could be much larger in number than what you presume and your impression from the players who post here. Further more, even if most of the SC players are unhappy, how the development team would deal with their game fan’s views is a different story.

quote:

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:

quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:

quote:

Originally posted by shadow_ninja961:
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...

...

Sorry for going off on a tangent there, the point of my post originally was that Ubi isn't going to drastically change the gameplay to suit a story.

Don't be sorry, you’ve misunderstood the point, that is not what I meant, so your "going off" does not apply to me.

quote:

Originally posted by romeo_longsword:
Some of us might love Splinter Cell’s L&S stealth features from the earlier games, but Splinter Cell as a game it's is not just about L&S.

That's true, but it is still an essential part of it. To use someone else's example, chocolate chips are not all that make up chocolate chip cookies but without the chocolate chips, it isn't chocolate chip cookies any more. Likewise here, without Sam being a Splinter Cell, who is a government agent who infiltrates places at night NOT a fugitive who walks through the crowds with a hoodie, this game is not Splinter Cell.

I find that example you have given rather blindful and self absorbing. Somebody has addressed what he/she want from a Splinter Cell games and stating their importance to Splinter Cell games are equal to chocolate chips to chocolate biscuits, this is no more valuable than a person just say what they like and don’t like, the chocolate chips and biscuits part it's just a diversion.

The idea is stealth, and one of the few methods is to use L&S to achieve being unseen, Splinter Cell retain as a stealth game here in Conviction using L&S, crowd blending, and the traditional diversion to achieve stealth, the complains on Conviction’s L&S is that it is being lesser focused on compare with other SC games.

This is no where near to the absolute importance of chocolate to chocolate discus, as Conviction suggests it is matching the brief.

It is an analogy, ie it is a different scenario but an example of the same idea. What I am trying to say is that you can't say it is just a different kind of stealth and so therefore it is not a significant change. It is a different kind of stealth, if you call it stealth, so therefore really it's a different game. Everybody has what Splinter Cell means to them, but really it's a combination of the parts.

quote:

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
It is an analogy, ie it is a different scenario but an example of the same idea. What I am trying to say is that you can't say it is just a different kind of stealth and so therefore it is not a significant change. It is a different kind of stealth, if you call it stealth, so therefore really it's a different game. Everybody has what Splinter Cell means to them, but really it's a combination of the parts.

Word. What's MGS without a Snake, without a bandana, without a (for games) deep storyline & cutscenes ?

Hey Romeo, try this analogy.

Lets assume for a minute that you like chevrolet corvettes,or pick anything in the world that you like as an example.

For examples sake,i'll use corvette.
Lets imagine Chevy decided to make a new corvette,but instead of it looking similar to its classic heritage,they decided to make it look like a volkswagen bug in appearance.
But they still call it a corvette.

Now i can imagine you would come along and claim that you also approve of this direction because,after all you'll say," it still has four wheels and a gas pedal and brake so it retains enough of what made a corvette for me".

But the fans of corvette would say,"no,don't do this because it ruins its mystique".

Do you get it now? is it clear enough for you now?

I already said i'm all for UBI making a new kind of stealth game,but they should call it something else.Splinter Cell is like a corvette,or chocolate chip cookie,or anything else you like,etc...

once you change what makes it what it is,you've lost direction and the fan base you've created.


I agree with knot3d.I am a fan of MGS3 subsistance,and if Hideo Kajima radically morphed the MGS series into a different animal,i would no longer be interested in it either.

Why does everyone think that L&S is what made Splinter Cell. Its a stealth game PERIOD! The developers have said it themselves and their word is final and binding!

quote:

Originally posted by aniket_nayak:
Why does everyone think that L&S is what made Splinter Cell. Its a stealth game PERIOD! The developers have said it themselves and their word is final and binding!

Actually your partly right.The devs DID say what Splinter Cell was about and it WAS L&S,ninja suit,goggles,gadgets,etc...
Just watch the videos on the First SC where the devs go into detail about what makes Splinter Cell,Splinter Cell.Its about sam being a covert operative,using gadgets and night vision,sneaking around in the dark.This was said by Mathieu Ferland.Martin Caya also confirms these words.Other devs also talk about what Splinter Cell is and it all revolved around an ex navy seal(Sam),working for the NSA,doing covert missions for the US gov,wearing state of the art stealth suits,goggles,and using prototype weaponry.

All the things i mentioned earlier in this post.

Now i'm sick of you noobs coming along and acting like you know so much.Go and listen to what the developers said about what they wanted in Splinter Cell.Its all there in the extras menu in the 1st SC game.

And i'm saying that if the devs have changed their minds,then they should change the name of the franchise,other wise its deception.

Thats what they should call it instead of conviction,they should call it Deception.

If they want to call it Conviction,then they should have the conviction to stay true to the formula they created and talked about in the original developer videos about Splinter Cell.

Aniket. Have you ever even taken a look at all the splinter cell games as a whole? It was about L&S there was no other type of stealth involved so therefore it falls into a more specific category being L&S. In SC 1-3 you only ever hid in dark places or used noise diversions etc etc. You never used any other kind of stealth and the storyline was only a run-along part of the game to engage the players and make them care about what happened to Sam (not that the fisherists need any motivation ) like shadow ninja said, look at the extras in SC1 (if you have it) and also notice that on the back of SC 1-3 and in most of its reviews they boast more about the engaging lighting effects. Then suddenly in SC DA they brag about Sam Fishers most exciting adventure yet!
L&S is what SC was intented to be about, watch the interviews.

There is nothing wrong if the developers changed the way the things functioned in the game. They originally intended it to be about L&S. Now they realise they have already done enough of it. Its perfectly alright if they want to bring in a new experience in the game. BTW, the first 3 Splinter Cell games had very limited strategies when it came to crossing a level. The main strategy being jump from shadow to shadow. Thats it. So unless they changed that and made the game more open-ended it would have gotten stale.

I thought DA was the worst SC game.

but I think SC:C looks cool.


--

quote:

Originally posted by aniket_nayak:
There is nothing wrong if the developers changed the way the things functioned in the game. They originally intended it to be about L&S. Now they realise they have already done enough of it. Its perfectly alright if they want to bring in a new experience in the game. BTW, the first 3 Splinter Cell games had very limited strategies when it came to crossing a level. The main strategy being jump from shadow to shadow. Thats it.

Thats not necessarily a bad thing, seeing how much copies SCCT has sold, when the magazines even cried after PT that there was "too less innovation". Who gives a **** if the strategies are limited, if the game sucks you in and doesn't release you until you finished it?! I don't, but you probably don't ever get to that point in the first place - I imagine you sitting in front of the monitor that is running CT, constantly moaning about how unrealistic and dull that game is.

quote:

Originally posted by aniket_nayak:
There is nothing wrong if the developers changed the way the things functioned in the game. They originally intended it to be about L&S. Now they realise they have already done enough of it. Its perfectly alright if they want to bring in a new experience in the game. BTW, the first 3 Splinter Cell games had very limited strategies when it came to crossing a level. The main strategy being jump from shadow to shadow. Thats it.

Thats not necessarily a bad thing, seeing how much copies SCCT has sold, when the magazines even cried after PT that there was "too less innovation". Who gives a damn if the strategies are limited, if the game sucks you in and doesn't release you until you finished it?! I don't, but you probably don't ever get to that point in the first place - I imagine you sitting in front of the monitor that is running CT, constantly moaning about how unrealistic and dull that game is. Now guess what, you'll never enjoy a game if you don't give it a chance!

The last part of your post was just plain wrong. Doesn't come as a surprise though.