Exactly, DixieWolf!

wait what? i never said it couldn't be done. In the book "fall out" in the beginning sam is trained for thinking on his feet in the broad daylight. I didn't say it couldn't be done. Just that it would be boring, and sam couldn't fully blend in like the special forces guys could. cause those special forces didn't have their own people out to get them.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
wait what? i never said it couldn't be done. In the book "fall out" in the beginning sam is trained for thinking on his feet in the broad daylight. I didn't say it couldn't be done. Just that it would be boring, and sam couldn't fully blend in like the special forces guys could. cause those special forces didn't have their own people out to get them.

Pardon? The reason I gave you the challenge Stealth_chill is because the Special Forces members in the Unit are Fugitives and are on the run from their own branch of government, also being persued by the CIA and Govermnet Black Ops... Hence why I gave you the challenge to watch it.

Would it be boring? Like I say please watch it and I hoped you would accept the challenge as it's such a small thing to watch 2x 40 min eps, then we can discuss futher if it would be boring or not. To be honest the other reason I wanted you to watch it is because it is varied, i mean they're very well done eps, please watch them and then lets discuss if ConViction would be boring if it was like these Eps, that's all i'm asking from you here nothing more.

Like I said if you want to challenge me also, I'm up for it, but I think this will open up more discussion and debate as where ConViction could go, rather then saying it is simple boring when only taking into one aspect of the fugitive gameplay mechanics, that even i would admit would be boring if that's all it is. However I'm looking it from multiple aspects, I don't think that the game will be based around this entire area the whole game, but use different locations different missions and objectives to keep is varied, why my challenge to ou is important I think. Anyways would love to hear from you if you watch those eps and see what you think, that's all i would like to know to be honest your own honest opinion what you think.

quote:

Originally posted by TFS_Jackie:

quote:

Originally posted by ERN456:
I know the photoshop stuff now I need to know how to put it on the web.

If you want, email it to me at Jackie_Fiest@yahoo.com. I have some space where I can store it for you.

Thanks for the offer but I have decided to tell Tidenburg to do the sig for me I honestly dont know what Im doing.

look lets get one thing straight. IF they were to make social stealth like only 1 or 2 missions in the game thats cool. but not the whole bloody game. You also cant say

"well maybe ubi is including some L&S elements too!"

cause if they are they are stupid for not tlling us that. with all the hate on this game i dont see why they wouldnt be like "hey! we still have L&S!!!" It would be terrible marketing on their part

this is basically like turning Halo into a 2-D platformer and releasing it as Halo 4. its way to extreme of a change and it totally kills the series for me.


and Dixie, again im not saying it can't be done. im sure it can be hella done. i've already said it could. im saying i don't want to see sam in that situation! i want him to sneak in the shadows like he has been for the last 7 years! I dont care if some show can do it, i dont want sam to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
look lets get one thing straight. IF they were to make social stealth like only 1 or 2 missions in the game thats cool. but not the whole bloody game. You also cant say

"well maybe ubi is including some L&S elements too!"

cause if they are they are stupid for not tlling us that. with all the hate on this game i dont see why they wouldnt be like "hey! we still have L&S!!!" It would be terrible marketing on their part

this is basically like turning Halo into a 2-D platformer and releasing it as Halo 4. its way to extreme of a change and it totally kills the series for me.


and Dixie, again im not saying it can't be done. im sure it can be hella done. i've already said it could. im saying i don't want to see sam in that situation! i want him to sneak in the shadows like he has been for the last 7 years! I dont care if some show can do it, i dont want sam to do it.

Touche, it will be the same likewise if they make a classic game and all we do is leap frog from one shadow to the next whats the difference? If the game gets low scores because it doesn't do anything new what will the complaint be, they have bad taste in games? Back in 2005-06 it was fun, now that mechanic is simple and mastered, but I understand it appals to you but you have to understand it is mastered to many people now. It needs to be re-imagined and all that anyone can come up with is that it must be dark and the AI must react to light, but the gameplay is the same from from 7 years ago. What is challeneging about it? SCDA was a cake walk in terms of gameplay and I don't consider myself a super hardcore gamer.

Social stealth is one part of the game, you mingle then you infiltrate a building or do an objective, I really see no issue here. There have been a few screenshots where Fisher inside a building, where is the crowd in the building? There is none, so what is the complaint in that senario, no light or shadow? what if there was some would that appease? It seems many think all you do is mingle in crowds, even if Fisher was with 3rd Echelon and light and shadow was there, would there be complaints about the crowds? No it would be somehow innovative and defended as an evolution ironically...

I think all communities complain, ConViction hasn't has an update for a year? neither has Alan Wake which has been in development way before ConViction. With the recent news of Diablo III fans complaining that the art direction is poor and signed a peition of over 3000 gamers, stating they want the old art direction back because in their eyes just like Splinter Cell the new game it isn't a true sequel. Likewise if you see their complaint it really does look silly when read.

I just hope Ubi release some news soon then we can seperate those who like the game from thsoe who don't and move on.

i wish there was some compromise. some L&S and some social stealth elements. what would be so damn cool is if there was a crowd at night time and you had to evade them while sneaking around L&S. They showed those kinda things in the books and it was cool as hell. having to not only evade the guards but civilians as well? so damn cool.....

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i wish there was some compromise. some L&S and some social stealth elements. what would be so damn cool is if there was a crowd at night time and you had to evade them while sneaking around L&S. They showed those kinda things in the books and it was cool as hell. having to not only evade the guards but civilians as well? so damn cool.....

Compromise...?

At some point, a game that so changes its core game play so as to no longer be recognizable other than the use of familiar characters can no longer be considered a sequel.

Rather, "Conviction" is a different game entirely that, conincidentally, comes from the same "universe" or "story" found in Pandora Tomorrow, Chaos Theory, Double Agent...

What Ubisoft does not understand - or, apparently, chooses not to recognize - is that people bought the prior games because of the core game play - the game play that has now been apparently tossed aside.

Ubisoft's developers may no longer enjoy making the light and shadow game; however, we enjoyed playing it and were looking forward to a new installment.

Yes, the story and character are part of the equation. Splinter Cell fans love Sam Fisher's character...they, for the most part, love the story (many, like me, think the Double Agent story was ridiculous).

However, a video game is not a book... We choose to play a video game because the particular act of playing the video game is enjoyable. A video game could have the best story in the world, but have no fans because the game play mechanic is not fun....

As such, game play is the key to a video games success.

The new game play mechanic may be a lot of fun (doesn't seem so to me, but I will allow that others on this forum may respectfully disagree), but it is a drastic departure from what was done in the past (and enjoyed in the past)... social stealth (or, walking slowly through a crowd in your super bland hoodie) is light years away from infiltrating a top secret facility through ventilation shafts in a "ninja" stealth suit...

Fans of the prior games may or may not like the new game play mechanic. "Conviction" may find new fans; although, it may certainly alienate many old, hardcore fans (like me). Many of those will move on to other game franchises.

The fact of the matter is that "Conviction" is not a "Splinter Cell" game in the sense of what was done in the past. Rather, Ubisoft is reinventing the game using familiar characters.

Now, the story of Sam Fisher is, essentially, the story of Jason Bourne. Both were highly trained operatives...both are now fugitives from their previous employers....both try to disappear into crowds in plain day light... both fight their enemies by engaging in hand to hand combat (as opposed to Sam's previous inclination to sneak up from behind and either snap his adversary's neck or stab him).

Should they have completely reinvented this game franchise? My take - no, absolutely not. Others disagree. That is fine...kind of what a discussion board is for - discussing what may or may not work.

Oh well. This is my first post on the board in quite some time. I have been periodically checking back in to hope that maybe, just maybe Ubisoft had come to its senses...however, I have seen little here to demonstrate that it has.

i agree, its not SC anymore

quote:

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
i agree, its not SC anymore

SCDA360 and SCC should just be called Double Agent 360 and ConViction no Splinter Cell on the box.

I believe Stealth_chill himself said this. "When I say stealth, what do you think of? Splinter Cell of course!" Splinter Cell isn't about L&S, Splinter Cell is about getting your objectives done in a manner that is stealthy. And whether people believe it or not, L&S aren't the only forms of stealth. As long as Splinter Cell keeps its plot and is a realistic stealth action game, it's still Splinter Cell.

quote:

Originally posted by JollyRoberts:
I believe Stealth_chill himself said this. "When I say stealth, what do you think of? Splinter Cell of course!" Splinter Cell isn't about L&S, Splinter Cell is about getting your objectives done in a manner that is stealthy. And whether people believe it or not, L&S aren't the only forms of stealth. As long as Splinter Cell keeps its plot and is a realistic stealth action game, it's still Splinter Cell.

If you'd read just about any of the threads on here, you'd realize that "we" are fully aware that there are other types of stealth. We just don't want them for Splinter Cell.

As far as it being okay to call something a Splinter Cell simply because it's got stealth in it...that's your opinion. My opinion is that, after six SC's that all featured L&S as their core gameplay mechanism, Ubisoft made it pretty clear that that's what they were.

I didn't say you could call it Splinter Cell just because of the stealth, but I did say that the L&S does not really carve the series a spot on the tree of viewership because several other notable games made use of this, like Thief and I think it was... Tenchu. But I still respect your opinion and can see where you're coming from. =D

quote:

Originally posted by JollyRoberts:
I didn't say you could call it Splinter Cell just because of the stealth, but I did say that the L&S does not really carve the series a spot on the tree of viewership because several other notable games made use of this, like Thief and I think it was... Tenchu. But I still respect your opinion and can see where you're coming from. =D

Thief yes, Tenchu no - I don't believe they really implemented L&S until Z.

Having just about every L&S game there is, though, I can say that the Splinter Cells, especially CT, are in another league. They deliver so much more than just awesome sneaking. Besides the overall quality, they have the über character of Sam voiced by the über talent Michael Ironside. Seriously - though I love a lot of those games, they just don't compare.

OK sorry but I think the point you're missing is, they're slapping the name splinter cell on the box when you're not even a splinter cell anymore! THAT makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. The agency has gone evil, and you got to save the world by yourself... literally. Honestly, Splinter Cells are supposed to be for the good of things, and Sam hasn't quit being a Splinter Cell, the agency has quit being Third Echelon.

quote:

Originally posted by Tidenburg:
OK sorry but I think the point you're missing is, they're slapping the name splinter cell on the box when you're not even a splinter cell anymore! THAT makes no sense.

Exactly.

If this game were a new game, Ubisoft would have to market it more intensely (as they cannot count on the "automatic" buys of splinter cell fans...although, they are in for quite a shock when many of those buyers, who they thought were automatic, don't show up for "Conviction").

The truth appears to be that Ubisoft is sick and tired of making Splinter Cell games, but it not sick of taking our money for them. So, what do they do? Invent a new game and put it into a pre-existing "world" from a past game hoping to be successful (without the typical growing pains that a new franchise must endure).

To answer the previous poster, no- the "Conviction" game is not coming out on PS3. Ubisoft evidently chose to throw its PS3 fans under the bus...

No need for fanboy flame-wars, but I will say that as an owner of both the 360 and PS3, they are both excellent consoles. Do I favor one over the other? Not really as a gaming console (the PS3 has more upside to it, but until I see more software capitalizing on it, I will not give them that credit).

Ubisoft is making a huge gamble with this game. Not only are they losing potential customers by limiting it to XBox 360, but they are "re-inventing" the game by destroying its core game play mechanic that made it successful. Thus, alienating many hard core fans on the XBox 360 as well.

As an owner of "Assasin's Creed", I hope that they are not trying to use the same "social stealth" component, which was utilized in that game, for the "Conviction" game. While it was a fun, beautiful game, it got old really, really quickly. The gameplay was formulaic and repetitive. I have absoulutely little desire to re-play the game.

quote:

Originally posted by JollyRoberts:
It makes perfect sense. The agency has gone evil, and you got to save the world by yourself... literally. Honestly, Splinter Cells are supposed to be for the good of things, and Sam hasn't quit being a Splinter Cell, the agency has quit being Third Echelon.

There are those that would argue that a video game should not change its gameplay to suit a storyline.

Besides, being the L&S devotee that I am, I could see it used in just about any scenario.

quote:

Originally posted by EmmaJordan:
As an owner of "Assasin's Creed", I hope that they are not trying to use the same "social stealth" component, which was utilized in that game, for the "Conviction" game. While it was a fun, beautiful game, it got old really, really quickly. The gameplay was formulaic and repetitive. I have absoulutely little desire to re-play the game.

I've actually popped in the disc a couple of times since I finished it, just to freerun. I had to plan ahead of time, though.

After starting the game I went shopping while the three hour non-skippable cutscene did its thing. When I returned home I was able to make my way down the mountain before setting up camp at the gates of Masyaf. The next morning I headed out again, and was able to get to the teleportation crossroads by nightfall. I chose my city, but by then my horse and I were so tired we barely made it to the city wall before collapsing from exhaustion. It was only on the morning of the third day that I actually made it inside the city, and was finally able to do the only thing that really interested me in the first place. But, I digress...

quote:

Originally posted by JollyRoberts:
It makes perfect sense. The agency has gone evil, and you got to save the world by yourself... literally. Honestly, Splinter Cells are supposed to be for the good of things, and Sam hasn't quit being a Splinter Cell, the agency has quit being Third Echelon.

Sam is a fugitive - like Jason Bourne. He is not a splinter cell. A splinter cell would be an operative working independently on behalf of another entity. Here, Sam is working for no one other than himself as his former employer is trying to hunt him down.

quote:

Sam is working for no one other than himself

Citation needed?