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Originally posted by soron:

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Originally posted by kalle90:
You have just stubbornily wanted the exact old L/S game back.

And you just stubbornly want Social Stealth.

Wow, you all got really offended by that one? But you all are, I ain't fond about social stealth alone, but about the noticeable yet not complete change. It still is stealth, that fits the stoty.


Now Sam is in same position the terrorist were against Sam earlier. They try to be hidden executing their plans, but Sam takes them down one by one having the advantage of surprise and his own phase. Now Sam is trying to stay hidden while government has the moment of surprise and their own phase.

The Trailer showed how Sam was in some bunker when Police found him and he had to fight and escape. There just is no bulletproof safehouse, atleast where he could complete his tasks, anyone can apprehend Sam. Sam has to move, he can't just sit and be a unmoving target like he earlier could be in shadows. Like said, Sam doesn't have hi tech equipment, fast and accurate intel or time to refresh. His enemies have them.

Of course 3rdE wants to lure Sam to "work" for them so they can catch him. "We can settle this, you just have to return here, Lambert is alive and wants to talk to you"


Just yesterday I played Kola Cell for the first time. It was great fun and new, but it was still a short repetion of the old. It was a update, a free update. You want to pay 70€ of it.

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Just yesterday I played Kola Cell for the first time. It was great fun and new, but it was still a short repetion of the old. It was a update, a free update. You want to pay 70€ of it.

Actually I bought SC1 and lateron the Limited Edition with the bonus disc. So like 2x50 euros for SC1.

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Originally posted by MKCC14:
I think Sam would say it wouldnt make sense to wait for darkness because the lack of NVG and possibly a flashlight.

But it was never dark enough in the next-gen DA to need the NVG...

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Originally posted by kalle90:
Just yesterday I played Kola Cell for the first time. It was great fun and new, but it was still a short repetion of the old. It was a update, a free update. You want to pay 70€ of it.

Not quite; I paid about $100 for the three SC1 bonus missions. I also bought DA for the PS2 when I already had it for the XBox (and 360), just for its two bonus missions.

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Originally posted by scworld:
I believe that if Sam is able to get through the empty streets in Jerusalem, and other urban areas at night, and using L&S to bypass ALL guards in CIA, that misdirecting/sneaking by some 'rookie' cops at night is a piece of cake.

Of course. Especially if all authorities are aware of Sam's face, maybe even his abilities and are actively looking for him (which means the situation is totally different than it was in the missions you mentioned since none was expecting an "intruder").

I won't even mention that he had his stealth suit (with the photo cells on it) during all of these missions which he also won't have in SCC. How is Sam supposed to know if the darkness he wants to hide in, is intense enough without the photo cells enhanced suit + the stealth meter on his OPSAT (which he's been using for all these years)?

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
I won't even mention that he had his stealth suit (with the photo cells on it) during all of these missions which he also won't have in SCC. How is Sam supposed to know if the darkness he wants to hide in, is intense enough without the photo cells enhanced suit + the stealth meter on his OPSAT (which he's been using for all these years)?

Liar! You just mentioned it.

Anyway, give the poor guy some credit - I'm pretty sure that, even without the suit, Sam would be able to tell what's dark and what's not. Plus, logically, he should be less visible in shadow. Unless he's wearing white, or something...

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Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
Liar! You just mentioned it.

Hmpf.

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Anyway, give the poor guy some credit - I'm pretty sure that, even without the suit, Sam would be able to tell what's dark and what's not. Plus, logically, he should be less visible in shadow. Unless he's wearing white, or something...

True, he might know what's dark and what's not, but the point is, as a fugitive he won't have the luxury of time to look for dark places because the authorities are after him, so if he would simply hide in a dark place - sooner or later, they would find him because they're actively searching / hunting him since he's considered dangerous (which he definitely is).

I still think that he can outmanouvre a whole army. So they won't even see him. And tracking someone who leaves almost no traces... well, that's hard.

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

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Anyway, give the poor guy some credit - I'm pretty sure that, even without the suit, Sam would be able to tell what's dark and what's not. Plus, logically, he should be less visible in shadow. Unless he's wearing white, or something...

True, he might know what's dark and what's not, but the point is, as a fugitive he won't have the luxury of time to look for dark places because the authorities are after him, so if he would simply hide in a dark place - sooner or later, they would find him because they're actively searching / hunting him since he's considered dangerous (which he definitely is).

If he won't have time to look for dark areas, then Ubi should make a lot of them so they're easily accessed.

In all the previous games, you move from shadow to shadow (or, from hidden spot to hidden spot, in the lit/daylight areas). There were people there, too (because I don't go around killing them, thankyouverymuch), and you had to time your movement right in order to not be seen. Even if you needed to distract someone, there were options that were very subtle, innocent, and non-explosive (is Sam even going to able to whistle? ).
The difference was (maybe...), that you could take the time you needed to prepare - nobody was going to find me while I planned my next move. Since I don't do well under pressure, that was a really good thing.

Sam can Whistle still, he does it in the Ubiday video to attract the police officer. What I really don't understand about L&D, not to say it isn't important, but where can it actually be used properly and efficiently like before? Becuase it's not just the suit that helps him know wheather it's light or dark enough, it's also camouflage cream on his face, which can be seen in many games... Without that it's quite useless to try and hide in the dark, sweat = shine, unless he has a balaclava on, and wearing both isn't exactly blending in. Also how are you going to hide from a 3E spy in the shadows, with his gadgetry? You gonna have to think outside the box and use your wits either run or fight. You should know how well these guys track down people he did work for them, if 3E can track down 3rd world terrorists all across the world, Sam Fisher, accessing computers giving away his location, it will be just a matter of time. And when they do find him, you're going to have to use more then Shadows even if there was any.

Was he whistling? I'll have to watch it again; I couldn't really tell... The guard saw him, though - it looked like he was lured more by sight than sound.

Actually, it's kind of weird to have him whistle in that situation. If he's so close to the guy (and a lot of other people), and obviously seen, wouldn't that make him even more suspicious?

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Originally posted by kalle90:

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Just yesterday I played Kola Cell for the first time. It was great fun and new, but it was still a short repetion of the old. It was a update, a free update. You want to pay 70€ of it.

Not quite; I paid about $100 for the three SC1 bonus missions. I also bought DA for the PS2 when I already had it for the XBox (and 360), just for its two bonus missions.

And there we have the problem. You are willing to pay for anything with Splinter Cell name on it. I am huge fan of Halo, but I still didn't buy Legendary edition because I don't keep the extras worth 50€. I rather buy something else.

I want to see Conviction be worth the 70€. I didn't buy CT or DA for full price, because I didn't think they would be worth it, after I saw how minor step PT was. Basically just new levels and technical update. That should be under 30€ in my mind, especially when it's so short with little replay value.

Which is crazier, to buy both DAs, or do like I did, just the other?

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I still think that he can outmanouvre a whole army. So they won't even see him. And tracking someone who leaves almost no traces... well, that's hard.

Did Sam outmanouver them, or just stay unnoticed because enemies rarely were aware of possible agent. When they were aware, like in CT Bathhouse, he had to fight because everyone were alerted. There wasn't that much mobility. Even then Sam didn't climb on roofs and still can't because on day everyone would see him and he won't have ropes and gadgets to get on them.

Government knows what are Sams possible goals and of course center forces on them, so there's likely always the same amount of resources guarding them. Just more potential diversions for Sam during days, at night Police could just start to chase that unknown hobo with unknown intentions. Maybe he couldn't even access some high security buildings during night; guards, surveillance and sealed entrances vs. tired Sam without gadgets or intel. At days that house might be completely open to civilians with small security, perfect for hobos and revolutionaries.

I saw quite a lot of dark, unwatched corners in trailer. Of course you could go hide in those, but would you accomplish your goals there? No. Would you be found eventually? Yes. That applied at how Sam was found in bunker, and applies to every other place in world.

Let's remember, it was dusk, not midday or midnight. That's when the vampires start their tour. Lots of time and darkness is just coming. Maybe there's advantages in both darkness and light. Light means people and dark means shadows. Can Sam wander on lighted streets along people masses the entire game?

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Originally posted by kalle90:

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quote:

Originally posted by kalle90:
Just yesterday I played Kola Cell for the first time. It was great fun and new, but it was still a short repetion of the old. It was a update, a free update. You want to pay 70€ of it.

Not quite; I paid about $100 for the three SC1 bonus missions. I also bought DA for the PS2 when I already had it for the XBox (and 360), just for its two bonus missions.

And there we have the problem. You are willing to pay for anything with Splinter Cell name on it.

Actually, no. I’m willing to pay for anything that gives me more of what I like.

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I want to see Conviction be worth the 70€. I didn't buy CT or DA for full price, because I didn't think they would be worth it, after I saw how minor step PT was. Basically just new levels and techincal update. That should be under 30€ in my mind, especially when it's so short with little replay value.

This is all opinion.

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Which is crazier, to buy both DAs, or do like I did, just the other?

I don't think either is "crazy" (though, you should know that a lot of people on these forums have played both versions of DA).

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Originally posted by kalle90:
Can Sam wander on lighted streets along people masses the entire game?

You mean, by blending in and staying with the crowd? No. At some point they'll notice the "strange man" and send him away / maybe even walk away or alert the authorities - one way or another he'll lose his cover as the crowd is only a temporary "safe house" - you can see that in GC SCC stage demo video (at 00:51).

Edit: Timecode corrected.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Vth_F_Smith_,

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Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

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Originally posted by kalle90:
Can Sam wander on lighted streets along people masses the entire game?

You mean, by blending in and staying with the crowd? No. At some point they'll notice the "strange man" and send him away / maybe even walk away or alert the authorities - one way or another he'll lose his cover as the crowd is only a temporary "safe house" - you can see that in GC SCC stage demo video (at 00:38).

No, I saw crowd staring at him weirdly

I meant that when earlier games have become more intense towards the end, infiltrating to presidential palaces and HQs and getting to straight fights. What would replace it in Conviction? Will he just calmly walk in same city along same people all the way to last mission and to end of the game? I don't see that happening.

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Originally posted by CoastalGirl:

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Originally posted by kalle90:

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Originally posted by kalle90:
Just yesterday I played Kola Cell for the first time. It was great fun and new, but it was still a short repetion of the old. It was a update, a free update. You want to pay 70€ of it.

Not quite; I paid about $100 for the three SC1 bonus missions. I also bought DA for the PS2 when I already had it for the XBox (and 360), just for its two bonus missions.

And there we have the problem. You are willing to pay for anything with Splinter Cell name on it.

Actually, no. I’m willing to pay for anything that gives me more of what I like.

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I want to see Conviction be worth the 70€. I didn't buy CT or DA for full price, because I didn't think they would be worth it, after I saw how minor step PT was. Basically just new levels and techincal update. That should be under 30€ in my mind, especially when it's so short with little replay value.

This is all opinion.

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Which is crazier, to buy both DAs, or do like I did, just the other?

I don't think either is "crazy" (though, you should know that a lot of people on these forums have played both versions of DA).

How much are you willing to pay? Those your examples just feel senseless, 100$ for the 3 short missions. Unless the $-€ balance has changed by miles again

It might be my opinion, but it's many others too. They just felt updates more than new games. Did and would I buy them after price drop? Yes. But game should be worth it's full price. Splinter Cell is (was) very near it, but not quite, and kept getting farther from it.

I see there's like 10 regular posters here. You mean them? Surely many have played both, while many haven't and there's everything from fanatism to single try. I'm all for the overall experience, not some tidbits I might get by buying PS2 and SC for it.

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Originally posted by kalle90:

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I don't think either is "crazy" (though, you should know that a lot of people on these forums have played both versions of DA).

How much are you willing to pay? Those your examples just feel senseless, 100$ for the 3 short missions. Unless the $-€ balance has changed by miles again

Again, opinion.

If the missions aren't worth it to you, that's totally fine. You have other options out there, so not paying for a few additional missions when you could just buy a different game makes sense.

I, however, can't just buy another game. Stealth games, especially good ones, are few and far between; I take what I can get.

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It might be my opinion, but it's many others too. They just felt updates more than new games. Did and would I buy them after price drop? Yes. But game should be worth it's full price. Splinter Cell is (was) very near it, but not quite, and kept getting farther from it.

I can completely understand not wanting to pay a lot for games you don't really like.

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I see there's like 10 regular posters here. You mean them? Surely many have played both, while many haven't and there's everything from fanatism to single try. I'm all for the overall experience, not some tidbits I might get by buying PS2 and SC for it.

I have a feeling you misinterpreted my post.

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Originally posted by kalle90:
No, I saw crowd staring at him weirdly

I meant that when earlier games have become more intense towards the end, infiltrating to presidential palaces and HQs and getting to straight fights. What would replace it in Conviction? Will he just calmly walk in same city along same people all the way to last mission and to end of the game? I don't see that happening.

That is exactly why the true SC fans don't like the direction of SCC is moving in. It would no longer be a stealth game, more of a action adventure/fighter with some stealth, much like AC. Even in the later missions it was always an option to go unnoticed but if there are no crowds or shadows to hide in, how are you figuring in the stealth aspect?

I could see buying a second version of a game if it's reasonable, I mean if I was buying it from America $100 is £50 and considering xbox360 games here are £40, it wouldn't be bad. But two games in England is £80 and thats $160 US dollars thats the equivalent of three games in America. Kalle using the Euro at $70 for two games is almost $200!! It doesn't make sence when it's that expensive, probably better to rent to try those levels.

There are quite a few Stealth games coming out this year, Saboteur being one of them. The other called Sabotage (not to be confused with the former) another Stealth game where you play as a Female protagonist dropped behind enemy lines in WWII, also looks interesting, then that game Rogue Warrior: Black Razor, action/Stealth your choice, Dark Sector, MGS4 another there is quite a few other games that I forget the names of.

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Originally posted by Woosy:
I could see buying a second version of a game if it's reasonable, I mean if I was buying it from America $100 is £50 and considering xbox360 games here are £40, it wouldn't be bad. But two games in England is £80 and thats $160 US dollars thats the equivalent of three games in America. Kalle using the Euro at $70 for two games is almost $200!! It doesn't make sence when it's that expensive, probably better to rent to try those levels.

Well, I'm not spending money on other games...so it's not so bad.

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There are quite a few Stealth games coming out this year, Saboteur being one of them. The other called Sabotage (not to be confused with the former) another Stealth game where you play as a Female protagonist dropped behind enemy lines in WWII, also looks interesting, then that game Rogue Warrior: Black Razor, action/Stealth your choice, Dark Sector, MGS4 another there is quite a few other games that I forget the names of.

LoL I should have specified - L&S.

What I've seen about a couple of those games, though, is that they have stealth elements; it's not the focus.

The one I'm most curious about is Cipher Complex.