Orph3O
Please tell us, how much time we have to wate the game relese, I have pass all precedent games and I can wate enny more, I understand that your team is working hard, but your team must understand us that we are waiting "HARD"
Thank you
Love and Kisses

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
A tactic isn't a mistake by default.

And combat isn't a mistake by default. I was giving tactical- and combat-based examples of how to get out of a mistake, not examples of tactical and combat mistakes.

quote:

A movie is just that... a movie.

I know, that's why I said "in the movie." Still an example though, because although that probably didn't really happen to Eric, it's still happened to some people.

quote:

I don't fully understand your ambush survival tactics, because the way you wrote them doesn't make any sense to me.

Yeah, that happens to me a lot. I'm bad at explaining. There've been several historic battles where armies have walked into ambushes, overcome them, and used the situation at hand to their advantage to put pressure on the enemy. I can't come up with any to name off the top of my head, but I'm still thinking.

quote:

Basically the only way is getting captured, being transferred to somewhere else, and then escaping and finding out you're close to your goal.

The context I was talking about was a little hard to understand, again my fault for being bad at explaining my point. I didn't feel like going back and trying to explain my original statement because it was like two in the morning.

Basically, what I meant was improvisation and overcoming the situation at hand. You don't have to accomplish an objective while you're at it because just overcoming the mistake is the progress. That's what I meant, overcoming the mistake is the progress.

But no matter how many examples I give you, if you don't like the idea anyway it's not going to convince you.

Back to trial and error, it's a painful, redundant system. The classics were do or die, and eventually you got past the hard parts by learning step by step what the code is going to do when you shoot out the lights, you're going to learn where they're mapped to walk and investigate, and until you get the formula right it's a very unforgiving and extremely redundant experience. The goal is to make a fun game, not make gamers memorize an enemy mapping code or solve a puzzle complex.

Needing to plan ahead vs improvising.
If improvising means I can just walk up to any guard, "improvise" with the environment and beat his behind off and then continue, I am not really impressed.
I prefer finding that window of 3 seconds to sneak by an enemy. Bit like Mission Impossible. So more MI's planning, less Bourne's on-the-fly escaping and damage control. There shouldn't be any damage to begin with. I don't want to be 'praised' for failing.

I really see what you're saying and I totally agree with it.

I love planning. It makes getting past the enemies so much more satisfying, and it makes me feel like a genius.

In Assassin's Creed I complete all the investigations so I can have the locations of guard posts and patrols, information about everything, and letters to other bad guys explaining why my targets are so evil. Planning your assassination is a lot more satisfying than just running in and stabbing everything in sight.

Patience and planning are key elements to me, but I've had my fair share of times when my amazing, untouchable plans have gone horribly, horribly wrong, and it would be nice to be able to at least patch up my mistakes instead of having to start over, if I want to. It's there if you need it, if things don't go the way you planned. It's just another option.

If anything, these things are punishments instead of rewards. Beating up guards does fix the problem at hand, but your cover is still blown. Choose to go on with one more mark against you or go back and try again to perfect it, you should at least be allowed to choose instead of being forced to go back. Some people don't mind going back. I don't mind either, to an extent. But other people would at least like to decide for themselves.

There's still going to be a lot of emphasis on planning and patience. Go around mindlessly stealing things and blowing stuff up without any thought of where to go or what to do after the guards check it out and you might as well be begging to get caught. Improvisation only helps those who help themselves, and it works best with a plan

What's so bad about going back, then adjusting your timing and then finally making it through? That always gives me a feeling of accomplishment, even if it went wrong 5 times. I wouldn't have that if I could just "improvise" to cover up my mistakes and continue just like nothing really happened.

Well as I said, I agree with you, but some people don't, simple as that.

Everyone has a different sense of satisfaction in Splinter Cell, and for some people it's the ability to survive and keep going without dying or going back.

And to deny them the option is a little bit purist, our way or the highway, do or die.

It would suck if it had been the other way around all along with us saying we want a slower, more unforgiving game and the improvisational speed purists denying us the option. Right?

That's basically happening now... Unless I see a slower-paced option of the level, it's all stupid "improvization" to me.
And 100% stealth doesn't mean slow (well, mostly it is...). If your timing is perfect or semi-perfect, like mine, you're usually faster than stopping to create a distraction.

Why the hell is there all this silence!!
I'm getting mad, I bought 360 for this game... in september!!!
The last blog's update is in november, Thomas said he would have stopped writing for "some time"... how much time is "some"???

AAAahhhhhrgh

Unfortunately some time means almost an year or 11 months.

Give us some info, Ubi. It'll help distract people from this eternal back-and-forth about "OMG no light and shadow!" and social stealth, coupled with the *EDIT*about bumfights and casual gameplay. No wonder I seldom post here. It's a warzone. No offense to people with constructive posts.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ms-kleaneasy,

yeah, we need info! what does sam use to groom his beard? a comb or a brush!?

I wouldn't mind Ubi Montréal coming on for a minute just to dispel the lame rumors that they've gone back to the drawing board on this game. Guess I'll have to wait for UbiDays to get some Conviction news.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Release_15,

I quoted Jackie in the other thread "i think ubisoft redoing evrything,"

I quoted her from her original post in the "Ubi Does What Ubi Wants" thread, where she basically confirmed that it's all untrue.

Just rumors, started by fans, because that's what the fans wanted to tell themselves so that apparently it would either pressure Ubisoft into really redoing it or just to convince themselves that that was really the truth, starting over.

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
And, I think the point Lauren was trying to make was that, regardless of slowing or completely stopping the pursuers, blocking doors is a useful way to either fix the mistake of being caught or even to prevent being seen in the first place if you aren't even being pursued.

Yeah, that's the basic idea.

This object interaction is not just going to be for quick patches to fix the leak in the sink, they're not just going to be for escaping on a dime, they're going to be for stealth, completing objectives, hiding, and escaping, among several other possibilities. For example, on the public tour where Sam had taken the computer and broken it, what if he had just stolen it and ran away, instead of breaking it? That computer had information the guide was using to direct the tour, it could have had a complete and extremely detailed map of the area, it could have had a list of restricted access points, because you can't carry a public tour in a restricted area, and it could have even had a list of monument locations that would, for one, tip you off where large crowd pools would be standing at to admire those monuments and, for another, where police presence might be heavy to prevent monument vandalism.

If Sam had simply stolen it, not only would it have not made such a distraction because, although stealing is no small deal, the guide most likely would have run after Sam instead of getting the attention of a guard. And if he'd obtained that information instead of destroying it, he would be a lot more prepared for the objectives.

And a final example, while he still has the computer in his pack, he could sit on a park bench and use it to create a more subtle distraction instead of something over the top like an explosion. Something that he can do fifty yards away and watch. That way, he won't be in the middle of the distraction when the guards come in to check it out, and he can slip right by them.

There are countless things you could do with any given item as long as you're creative. Why throw a chair at someone when you can put it on top of a table and then climb on top of it to get into the vents? What will you be able to do with those flying cups, aggressively, normally, and stealthily? What will you be able to do with a printer stealthily, for that matter?

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
I don't know anything where mistakes are transformed into progress. When I fail a test, I have to redo it. If I don't watch out I get overrun by cars.

Same thing happens in the game. If you fail to remain stealthy, you will ultimately fail and agents will be called in on you. If you don't watch and pay attention, those cool finishing moves will not save you from fifteen cops at the same time.

quote:

Originally posted by DallasOConner:
A field operative's mind is one of the most useful tools in his entire arsenal. Improvisation, resourcefulness, quick wits and a quick reaction, these things are more important to him than even his weapons and gadgets, and to not take advantage of these abilities in a tight situation would be the real mistake.

That's a really good point. Take advantage of all the items around you, plan, prepare, and improvise when needed. If you're extremely talented, you could use violent measures or even stealth elements to funnel police away from you in an escape plan. Find an escape route where guards chasing you would have to follow you on a destruction path of cars and propane tanks, wait until you run past them, and then blow them up, causing police to be deterred or slowed down. Or, if you don't like those violent measures, find a path that you can follow where you can constantly burst through doors, barricade them on the other side, and keep blocking the path as you move. It's complex, but it is possible, and it's all up to you.

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
Needing to plan ahead vs improvising.
If improvising means I can just walk up to any guard, "improvise" with the environment and beat his behind off and then continue, I am not really impressed.
I prefer finding that window of 3 seconds to sneak by an enemy. Bit like Mission Impossible. So more MI's planning, less Bourne's on-the-fly escaping and damage control. There shouldn't be any damage to begin with. I don't want to be 'praised' for failing.

There will be lots of times where you'll need to improvise an object in order to progress quietly. Like I said, steal the computer, don't break it. The information you obtain would give you lots of ways to progress patiently and preparedly. Why do you think they made a stealth button? They didn't put it there without a reason. No, you'll need to use it more often than you'd expect. There will be times when we can use the aggressive action and times when we can use the stealth one.

Where are you guys?...We want a Splinter Cell,not a GTA or Hitman or Assassin'S Creed parody,remember that.

quote:

Just rumors, started by fans, because that's what the fans wanted to tell themselves so that apparently it would either pressure Ubisoft into really redoing it or just to convince themselves that that was really the truth, starting over.

Amen. Tiring stuff. And I've seen my share of console wars. Remember "MGS4 on 360"? That one spawned hate topics in a timing that would've made rabbits jealous. I wouldn't peg Ubi as the kinda guys that fear fanboy retaliation, so I'm not worried.

quote:

Originally posted by S.V.G.:
Where are you guys?... We want a Splinter Cell, not a Grand Theft Auto or Hitman or Assassin's Creed parody, remember that.

No. Just no.

Grand Theft Auto is mindless action and killing people. And you play the bad guy. Sam is not the bad guy, he will not perform actions mindlessly, and he will not even be able to kill people, the good guys and innocents anyway. Aim your weapon at a civilian or cop and Sam will automatically shoot over their head to cause a panic. And if you disagree with me and say that it actually will be mindless action... As I and a few others have said, when you buy it, play it like a run and gun. Shoot at everything. Blow stuff up. And when fifteen cops come running at you with guns blazing, try your mindless action on them. It won't work. It's still meant to be played as a stealth game, and playing it as anything else will get you caught so quickly.

As for Hitman, I'm not even going to begin with the massive amount of differences. They aren't the same, not the same idea, not the same mechanics, not the same feel. They have nothing in common.

Assassin's Creed: Yeah, good luck pushing the rumor that ConViction steals mechanics from Creed. Splinter Cell started development beforehand, Creed just beat them to the punch. And even if you don't care which one got started first, it doesn't matter, they're not going to be the same. The crowd mechanics of ConViction are not even close to those of Creed, not by a long shot. The mechanics are way different and way more advanced in ConViction. Nothing will have the same effect here as it did there. Guards and civilians didn't mind your presence as long as you behaved and followed the standards they set. "Don't bump into people, and don't kill people. Amen." ConViction's standards are higher, and the guards' tolerance of you lower.

It's going to be a game of its own, nowhere close to being a parody of anything else.

Yeah but the concept of running around waving guns and shooting like a madman is something similar to GTA and just the idea of shooting hotdog stands as a diversion spooks me. Yeah i know that was the non stealthy way but crowd stealth is not cool in assasins creed the AI was dumb. I really hope that ConViction doesnt turn out to be like this also who wants Crowd SvM thats just wrong and imagine Coop crowd stealth or Sam shooting an AK 47 like a madman. That would be disturbing.

...Um.

ConViction doesn't have the concept of running around waving guns and shooting like a madman.

That's why I said try doing it. It won't work. That means: that is not the concept.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean it's the concept. In Call of Duty, you can throw grenades at your feet. Is that the concept? No. In Halo, you can kill your allies. Is that the concept? No. In Nintendogs, you can starve your dog. Is that the concept? No. In ConViction, you can try, but you won't succeed, to run around with guns blazing. Is that the concept? Absolutely no.

Throwing grenades at your feet means instant suicide. Killing your allies means they'll label you insane and kill you. Starving your dog means you shouldn't try owning a real pet. And finally, running around with guns blazing in ConViction will get you killed.

Ah... don't take me as angry. I just try to make a strong point.

But what if you are being chased by mercenaries and you have no other choice but to shoot them and then running around shooting mercenaries.