I've been checking out ConViction on Wikipedia for awhile and recently noticed that the pictures change sometimes, and with each new picture, Sam is holding a different weapon.

The current picture is Sam with a pistol, and there's a picture on IGN of Sam holding what looks kind of like an MP7. And also he uses an MP5 in the demo.

With all these different weapons being shown, do you think we'll finally be selecting our own weapon loadouts in each mission as we gain black market equipment?

quote:

Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:
I've been checking out ConViction on Wikipedia for awhile and recently noticed that the pictures change sometimes, and with each new picture, Sam is holding a different weapon.

The current picture is Sam with a pistol, and there's a picture on IGN of Sam holding what looks kind of like an MP7. And also he uses an MP5 in the demo.

With all these different weapons being shown, do you think we'll finally be selecting our own weapon loadouts in each mission as we gain black market equipment?

You might be on to something my nosy troll.

I really hope I dont have to see Sam running around with an MP5 or MP7 or even worst an AK 47 now that would be very wrong.

Possible, but it doesnt look like it is even necessary. Dont use the weapons if you dont want them, plain and simple.

I wonder if you can get a knife and your old kit back from the black market maybe Lambert who must be alive goddamnit gets you that stuff like he does in the DA xbox version.

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Originally posted by SnowLeopard:
You might be on to something my nosy troll.

If nosy means obsessed and troll means irresistible, I'll take it

I'm thinking the pistol might have just been something he picked up from a downed officer, but there's no way those two submachine guns are the same type.

quote:

I really hope I dont have to see Sam running around with an MP5 or MP7 or even worst an AK 47 now that would be very wrong.

Well he's already running around with an MP5 in the demo...

Thats why i said I really hope I dont see him doing that meaning that I want the game to be different than this and also that gun looked like a desert eagle and I doubt an officer had one maybe he took it from a merc but who knows.

Desert Eagles are huge.

Looks more like a standard 1911 in my opinion, basic service pistol.

I just checked the discussion page on Wikipedia and apparently there were a few people back in August who were thinking the same thing I am now. It's confirmed to be an MP7, I was sure it was but I didn't want to say exactly, didn't want to be wrong.

I'm currently talking to the guy who changed the picture, trying to figure out what it is, not that it matters.

quote:

Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:
Desert Eagles are huge.

Looks more like a standard 1911 in my opinion, basic service pistol.

If it is a 1911 I dont know what its doing there officers dont carry those weapons anymore maybe its from a merc again. I think the standard weapon for police in the US is the Glock Im not sure though.

On a slightly relevant subject: are there any programmers, developers, or any code-smart users (scworld) who would be able to say if writing an enemy AI code giving them limited ammunition would be too difficult for games currently in development or in the near future? And does anyone know if there are games already on the market that have this concept? I know that in Ghost Recon, it will register when you pick up an enemy weapon that it has been fired by them, if they fired it at you, but it simply takes the number of bullets fired, recycles it into the maximum ammo that the gun is capable of holding, and when you reload, you're reset to a weapon that has a full mag and a full limit. (A weapon that has a 5-round mag capacity and 10 round limit, if fired once, will have 4 rounds in the mag and 11 rounds available, reloading sets it back to 5 and 10.)

I'm sure it wouldn't be easy to make a system where individual enemies have a constant bullet count, but I think in the long run it would be worth it. It's semi-related to spawning and regeneration of enemies, having spawn points is easier because you don't have to account for a specific number, but a set number of enemies provides a more tactical experience.

AI would also have to adapt to the limit and conserve their ammo (instead of mindlessly firing every bullet they have at you while you're still behind solid cover), and maybe even ammo sharing if two enemies have the same weapon and one of them needs an extra mag.

Anyway... does anyone know about this, if it would be too hard, or if it's already on the market?

^ Its possible, not even relatively hard so long as the amount of weapons is not incredibly huge as its just a variable attached to that weapon. I'm also pretty sure some games use this but can't think of any off of the top of my head, the main reason it isn't implemented is because it means that 1, balancing does not need to be applied to the NPC's (as in the enemies will never have to hunt out another gun) and 2, it means the developers dont have to spend an extra few months trying to make the system of conserving ammunition, finding ammunition and sharing ammunition that you described.

I think it could pay off extremely well in the end if they do an amazing job, and even become an influence to AI development in all types of shooter games, first person, third person, action, everything, even F.E.A.R.'s intense AI tactics.

I basically got this idea from two things in Splinter Cell. The first being, in the original Splinter Cell I once let a Russian mercenary spot me while I was behind a high fence in the police precinct level, and he wasn't hurting me so I decided to let him shoot at me for awhile (a boring way of entertainment I guess), and I ate dinner while he went through about thirty mags on me.

The second thing being, in Double Agent I noticed that if you knock out a guard who has a machine gun, he will drop it, and if that guard is woken up by a buddy, he'll ditch the machine gun and pull out a pistol. So I wondered what would happen if I knocked him out again and he dropped his pistol. And needless to say, when he woke up again, he just pulled out another pistol.

So I've been speculating a lot about, what would happen if their one and only pistol runs out of ammo? Are they going to drop it and improvise a printer like Sam can? Ask their buddy for a spare mag? Run away? Bluff and pretend they still have ammo?

It's a lot of work but building a realistic limited ammo concept could pay off huge in the end. Maybe it's not something that gamers themselves would admire, but I'm sure there are plenty of people in higher places who would appreciate it and be influenced by it.

I'd like that. However, I quickload when I am seen, so meh

Lol, at first when I read "quickload" I thought you were talking about some speed-reloading technique for your weapon, and I was kinda confused =p

Usually when I'm seen, I don't load the last point right away, I just play around with my mistake for awhile and see if I can make anything good come of it. If I manage to fix it without alarms or being shot, I usually proceed, if it goes South, no harm done.

Back to the subject at hand, this all relates to Sam because:

A.) I think that if you go into a mission with a pistol and two mags, it's only fair that they go into a mission with a pistol and two mags

B.) It's unrealistic when you've been in a firefight with a guy and he's gone through two magazines but when you pick up his weapon, it's still at full capacity. When you trade bullets with a guy and pick up his gun afterwards only to find six bullets in it, that's realism for ya. And if you're a battlefield scavenger like me, that's also an incentive to be stealthy and avoid firefights because you don't want them wasting your precious ammo

And the most important one, C.) I have excelled in numerous games that when I engage in firefights, all I have to do is find cover, listen for a pattern in the AI's limited weapon coding (fire two shots, long pause, fire five shots, short pause, reload sequence, fire two shots, long pause, etc.) and the advancement in AI of limited ammunition and ammo conservation is one step forward towards a truly realistic firefight that involves random bursts and yelling instead of scripted patterns that I so easily pick up on. The day that I listen for a pattern, solve it, poke my head out of cover to take the kill, and get killed myself because there is no pattern, I'll be happy. I'll be mad that I got shot, but I'll finally be happy that there's a true challenge to actually fight and not just check the script.

Any thoughts on this? Criticism is welcome and appreciated, and you can't deny you want to

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LaurenIsSoMosh,

Why waste ammo at all its better not to use your gun in my opinion. I remember that I decided to play every level without using weapons in CT. Now I am doing by not killing anyone and leaving everything except the computer, cabinet files and other stuff the same way it was.

Well in that case, why even bother advancing AI at all? Instead of having intelligently thinking enemies in Splinter Cell, we could have wooden posts, and we could have called them *annoying pun activate* guard posts, get it? Guard posts, hahaha! *annoying pun deactivate*

I respect your opinion, but I do have my own on the matter. I'd just like to see a major advance to the intelligence of enemies when it comes to dealing with gun slinging firefights and how to realistically navigate them in a way that challenges me. And in the process, that advance would probably also affect how they navigate the shadows surrounding Sam, giving us a true challenge instead of just watching and waiting for the right scripted moment.

I meant to say that its better not to use your weapon as in the SC 20K to make it more like a challenge now if there was that kind of AI you would have to use your weapons because I think it would be to hard to do everything with a knife.

quote:

Originally posted by ERN456:
I meant to say that its better not to use your weapon as in the SC 20K to make it more like a challenge now if there was that kind of AI you would have to use your weapons because I think it would be to hard to do everything with a knife.

Lol, I'm giving such a vague description, how do you know it's too hard?

And... a Splinter Cell attempting to complete a mission with just his trusty knife is kind of like a construction crew trying to construct an entire building with just their nail guns and bulldozers... When they need the cranes and cement, some guy will shake it off and say they're trying to get 100% construction score so they can't use those things.

You have so much at your disposal, not just your knife. They gave you weapons and gadgets for a reason. I know trying to complete a mission with zero shots fired, zero gadgets used, and zero people killed or knocked out, can be really fun and challenging, but c'mon, it wouldn't kill you to complete a mission with 57/60 SC-20K bullets.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LaurenIsSoMosh,

First I know because ive done it before in DA and SCCT and its hard but what I meant to say is that you could use your knife as the primary weapon the pistol and SC20K would be used for lights and to create diversions or shocking people or knocking them out with sticky cameras.