And for your information, AC is not a stealth game. SC and AC dont even fall in the same genre. Screw core concepts being the same.

quote:

Originally posted by BurningDeath.:

Stealth is not a concept, it's a genre, for me .

For YOU being the key phrase here.

quote:

Originally posted by BurningDeath.:
Conviction's will be the crowd - simplified indeed.

How is using an ever changing and moving cover system simplified? Being able to just shoot out a light and create cover whenever you want is simple. Creating an environment where adaptability and quick thinking are essential is anything but simplified.

quote:

Originally posted by aniket_nayak:
And for your information, AC is not a stealth game. SC and AC dont even fall in the same genre.

That doesn't really matter. The point still stands that they share mechanics, same genre or not.

quote:

Originally posted by deepego3:
For YOU being the key phrase here.

Well, I can't speak for you, can I? You can define stealth whatever you want, for me, it's a genre and not the mechanic. At least all the magazines, reviewers, etc. I know of agree with me about stealth (or stealth-action) being a genre - but still it can be different to you, if you get it or not.
Would you be happier if I just said "I'm right you're wrong thats it"? Meh...I don't quite understand that - I'm just expressing my opinion and still getting flamed for that... -.-

quote:

Originally posted by deepego3:
How is using an ever changing and moving cover system simplified? Being able to just shoot out a light and create cover whenever you want is simple. Creating an environment where adaptability and quick thinking are essential is anything but simplified.

You totally misunderstood me there. I wanted to say that I simplified the concepts of the games to shorten my post - you can't really say that MGS is all about LOS-gameplay just as you can't say Conviction will be all about crowds (hopefully, we have barely seen anything else yet, but still).

quote:

Originally posted by BurningDeath.:

Well, I can't speak for you, can I? You can define stealth whatever you want, for me, it's a genre and not the mechanic. At least all the magazines, reviewers, etc. I know of agree with me about stealth (or stealth-action) being a genre - but still it can be different to you, if you get it or not.
Would you be happier if I just said "I'm right you're wrong thats it"? Meh...I don't quite understand that - I'm just expressing my opinion and still getting flamed for that... -.-

Who flamed you? All I did was point out that your opinion isnt necessarily shared by everyone. There is a bit of over sensitivity around here lately....

quote:

Originally posted by BurningDeath.:

You totally misunderstood me there. I wanted to say that I simplified the concepts of the games to shorten my post - you can't really say that MGS is all about LOS-gameplay just as you can't say Conviction will be all about crowds (hopefully, we have barely seen anything else yet, but still).

Fair enough.

quote:

Originally posted by deepego3:

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
I don't recall saying that...

No, but you did say:

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
Because it's painfully obvious the only reason they're going in this "new direction" with Splinter Cell is because of Assassin's Creed.

Which, to me anyways, seemed to imply what i said previously.

I can't help your misinterpretations.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:

I can't help your misinterpretations.

Sure you can, by being more specific.

quote:

Originally posted by deepego3:

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
I can't help your misinterpretations.

Sure you can, by being more specific.

Okay, specifically, it's my opinion that the reason they decided to go with the crowd system for SCC is because they'd done so much work on it for AC, they needed to stick it in another game to cover the costs of development. Since SC is an established series, which has (had) a loyal fanbase of nearly guaranteed buyers, it was the obvious choice.

What I would have liked for Ubi to have done is get off their butts and go all out with the L&S. I want to be wowed by innovation, and I know the technology is there to do it. Cast shadow recognition, smarter AI, a much harder "Hard" difficultly, etc. could make for an amazing L&S game.

Oh, and as far as them spending a million hours making every object interactive...yawn. Seriously. I play video games to do things I can’t do in real life, and I can pick up and throw stuff; I don’t need to do it in a game. Now, don't get me wrong, it's an okay idea, and certainly isn't, IMO, a detriment, but there's no wow factor in that feature for me.

quote:

Originally posted by BurningDeath.:

That doesn't really matter. The point still stands that they share mechanics, same genre or not.

Actually the point turns out to be completely void. Since they are of different genre, they will implement the crowd mechanic in different ways. I seriously doubt how much of social stealth AC will have since assassinations involve chasing victims in front of public and killing them.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:

Cast shadow recognition, smarter AI, a much harder "Hard" difficultly, etc. could make for an amazing L&S game.

Yeah, I agree with you there. They could have improved L&S. Because the L&S gameplay in the previous games were a joke. And about the cast shadow recognition thing, if there were multiple light sources, there should be multiple shadows as well. And only places which are REALLY dark should be able to mask your presence. Instead of just having smarter AI, we should have less blind AI.

Anyways, it wont be there in Conviction, but I like the idea about quick thinking and decision making when it comes to stealth and the usage of crowd to stay unnoticed rather than shadows. Trust me, hiding in crowd is much more effective than hiding in shadows.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:

quote:

Originally posted by deepego3:

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
I can't help your misinterpretations.

Sure you can, by being more specific.

Okay, specifically, it's my opinion that the reason they decided to go with the crowd system for SCC is because they'd done so much work on it for AC, they needed to stick it in another game to cover the costs of development. Since SC is an established series, which has (had) a loyal fanbase of nearly guaranteed buyers, it was the obvious choice.

What I would have liked for Ubi to have done is get off their butts and go all out with the L&S. I want to be wowed by innovation, and I know the technology is there to do it. Cast shadow recognition, smarter AI, a much harder "Hard" difficultly, etc. could make for an amazing L&S game.

Oh, and as far as them spending a million hours making every object interactive...yawn. Seriously. I play video games to do things I can’t do in real life, and I can pick up and throw stuff; I don’t need to do it in a game. Now, don't get me wrong, it's an okay idea, and certainly isn't, IMO, a detriment, but there's no wow factor in that feature for me.

Youve made your point. Of course I disagree.....but then you already knew that didnt you

I think alot of people seem to forget that this is a video game, not a movie ( Bourne Identity ). The hole argument is the gameplay plain and simple. The matter of it being a stealth game or a game staring Sam Fisher has no meaning what so ever. Obviously there's other stealth games out there that have different core gameplays. I'm not going to sit here explaining them. As for Sam. Sam is a Splinter Cell. A Splinter Cell is not Sam Fisher. Anyone playing coop would know this.

This leads to what a Splinter Cell is defined. So in fact this is not a Splinter Cell game. It's a game staring Sam Fisher. They mine as well call it CONVICTION staring Sam Fisher. This is no more than a side story about Sam.


As for the new gameplay who knows if it's any good. The general public hasn't even played it yet. UBI should've just started a new franchise with this gameplay and left Splinter Cell alone. I for one will rent Conviction before I ever even think of buying it.

I also see the gameplay being limited alot. I'm thinking the gameplay is going to be straight and narrow. Sure the maps are probably going to be a good size but that doesn't mean nothing. Until I've played it it's still in question. Maybe UBI can deliver a demo by christmas.

quote:

Originally posted by S7N:
i too am looking forward to Conviction, but you gotta understand, kevin that the people who hate it, hate it cos it aint like a typical Splinter Cell game

no Light and Shadows, no goggles, no gadgets and equipment from the NSA

its what most people believe in when it comes to Sam Fisher and to not have it means it's not a real Splinter Cell game

i partially agree with this, but i love Sam Fisher, not what he does or how he does it and the game mechanics Ubi Soft have going on look amazing

still, i will miss those little green dots

My respect for you just went waaaaaay up. You don't completely agree with us, but you at least have the respect (and intelligence) to try to understand it.

@kevin, you have to see that this game was originally a niche. It means that it wasn't designed to sell trillions of copy, it was meant to bring a good gameplay experience to those who had the patience to play SC. Now they are going for a bigger market, and it may be that they are not happy with the sales they have achieved, and you might forgive them for this. But some of us don't, because we feel that they have left the original SC fans out in the cold.

ya i understand but its just about respect for ubi

No offense intended, but why are people so upset about "this not being a Splinter Cell"

I mean, think of it: you are the EP of a series, and you say you've got a drastic change... you make a trailer of less then two minutes, and you need to decide what to put in it... same goes for showcasing a pre-alpha: you won't show anything we already know for the series, because then we wouldn't get any info... When you say: "We're gonna put in a more active, Improvisation based type of gameplay" then you're gonna show that, not the kind of things we already know... alright, maybe they overdone it in this one trailer...

Please no flaming, just give me a good argument...

I too support the new direction of SC, taking stealth in a different level such as blending in to the crowd as in "undetected", "unnoticeable", rather than just being "unseen" like most of the stealth games have out there, including SC 1, 2, 3 and 4.

I think it's a more matured way to represent stealth, and it's a rather clever development to keep the project exciting.

quote:

Originally posted by pietjevlip:
No offense intended, but why are people so upset about "this not being a Splinter Cell"

I mean, think of it: you are the EP of a series, and you say you've got a drastic change... you make a trailer of less then two minutes, and you need to decide what to put in it... same goes for showcasing a pre-alpha: you won't show anything we already know for the series, because then we wouldn't get any info... When you say: "We're gonna put in a more active, Improvisation based type of gameplay" then you're gonna show that, not the kind of things we already know... alright, maybe they overdone it in this one trailer...

Please no flaming, just give me a good argument...

That is true, Ubi isn't going to showcase the same features we've seen before. BUT, if it were actually similar, they wouldn't say in interviews that "shadows will no longer offer you protection" or "you will now be proactive rather than reactive". They have actually admitted that the game is a drastic change.