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Forums Splinter Cell Splinter Cell ConViction ANYONE ELSE BOTHERED BY THE DIRECTION SC IS GOING?|
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Do you honestly know what rehash means?
re·hash (rē-hāsh') tr.v. re·hashed, re·hash·ing, re·hash·es 1. To bring forth again in another form without significant alteration: rehashing old ideas. 2. To discuss again. Taking the ideas of what many here say including yourself are improvements, take the old formula of Splinter Cell, add dynamic lighting, and that's good, then you asked for a hybrid. Some have even said if it ain't broke don't fix it asking for the same formula, i.e rehash under the definition. Even take what many have said about SvM, bring it back add a weapon or two and add better graphics, thasts not a rehash is it not? hum. Like I've said in many threads, Splinter Cell is the exception to the rule when it comes to rehash such double standards just to protect the game is a good example of denial. Four games of the same formula isn't bad really, but to say they aren't rehashes is kinda amusing. Do I want another rehash? No I don't. I know many will rebuttal by saying well they added MP, after the first game and co-op in the third, yes, great progression. While this is true, the SP portion has minuscule updates, new movies new graphics the formula has been the same rehashed, which can't be defended in the same way. I don't mind games having 1-3 games with the same formula, but after a while I would like to see some variety, it seems that's not possible with the opinion here. Apparently this doesn't work with Splinter Cell, it cannot deviate from this!  The problem is to YOU personally it sucks you don't speak for me. For those people who want to see something new it's fantastic, it's not a nail in the coffin. While I said I would like to see both Light and Shadow gameplay and crowds as progression and a big change to the franchise, this doesn't seem to be allowed. The game must be made specific. It raises the question if you can't trust Montreal developers to create a Splinter Cell game, what chance have you got trusting them making a game you do like? Even then you would be upset about something or other. As for Hitman, if you play Hitman 2 there are only small changes, much fits the definition of rehash. This is 2008, do i really want to see gameplay mechanics on such a simple scale with the technology we have? No. If IO interactive keep the same graphics they used on Kane and Lynch and add 3rd person cover mechanics, regardless of how great gameplay is, you watch the response, especially when you got better games coming out now that are innovating and pushing the envelope, with new gameplay mechanics like Alone in the Dark, Splinter Cell as fans want it will be stagnating. Again with with your polls with the Majority, can you give me your statistical number please and where you conducted your research? It seems you have the might of marketing and have done much research or is it generalising? Because this Majority you speak of is over 3 million people, not 100 people on a forum. I see this about SvM aswell, many keep saying people are still playing SCCT on the PC which means it is the best, yet not taking into consideration other platforms, yet the majority speaks.  I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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Some people just think SC fans are only on this forum...when it is actually only a very small amount.
 Never Ignorant, Getting Goals Accomplished |
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Okay, so when does a game go from fitting within its established genre, to becoming a "rehash"? -------  "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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the only problem i have with the way the series is going, is the story.
Dynamic lights and shadows, civilian style clothing (though i wish he was still on nsa missions), un-silenced weapons, all makes for for a harder game which is awesome. But all of the new gameplay features that ubi are experimenting with could be applied to an SC game that still has sam working for the nsa. If he was, alot more people would be onboard with this new stuff. personally i dont think having sam retire and do stuff on his own really adds anything to the series. if anything it takes away, which is why alot of people are annoyed. also @ dixiewolf i have no idea why you keep comparing sam to 8 man teams of sf units. why you think he would be in a unit of men assaulting a com tower head on makes no sense to me. if he was tasked with disabling the tower he would go by himself and wouldn't have been bumped by the enemy. the enemy wouldn't be alerted by attacking units so he could move around the base without hundreds of men with ak's running around to fight off the support groups on the perimeter of the base. im not saying the sas did a poor job, but its not the way sam fisher would have done it. -Phil |
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I think it is going on a fantastic direction, although i didint buy SC Chaos theory and DA i had a little taste of it and i know the story.
Its inovation, its not the same thing over and over again, now u will have to stay in the dark but in a diferent way, think of Bourne movie( with matt damon) but without him looking for his identity. Its great the way u will have to hide in the crowd... etc |
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Splinter Cell, The only game franchise that I have ever pre-ordered to insure ownership on the day of release. I will continue to do so at every release to come. I love innovation we would be no where with out it and so far the single player has always been different, exiting, non-linear and most of all challenging. Game play top notch, and in SC:PT and SC:CT the multiplayer game play spawned innovative game play, expansive and small levels for varying game styles and above all a brotherhood of loyal “Fisherist” that as mentioned in the original post will stand by this series till the end, Myself included. So I sincerely implore that any member of staff the reads this post make SC:C’s multiplayer great, blow our minds with innovation and visuals with a spy Vs Mercenary Mode that will be truly legendary. Spy Vs Spy still has promise but there is nothing better then knowing with out a doubt that your team mate, your friend will without hesitation snap that merc’s neck the moment that smoke grenade goes off.
Just an opinion and i am optimistically looking forward to SC:C. Sam Fisher: [at a Japanese tea house, Sam has grabbed a guard from behind in a choke-hold] Bad news. Guard: Agh! I knew it! I knew there were ninjas around here! Sam Fisher: What? Guard: Yeah, you've gotta be a ninja. How else could you sneak up and grab me like that? Sam Fisher: Listen, I don't know what... Guard: Wow! A real, live, ninja! I can't believe it! Sam Fisher: Listen, I'm going to kill you if... Guard: *Wow*! Killed by a ninja... cool! |
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TFS_Jackie edit: talking about pirating games is not allowed on these forums. This should be considered a warning.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: TFS_Jackie, -Phil |
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Huh? I didn't say it shouldn't stick in it's genre, I said it needs to change what you do in the game world! Are you saying Convictions isn't a stealth/action game? When time and time again, Ubisoft have said you will infiltrate buildings, do other varied missions and have to use stealth, alas without light and shadows for protection. The change is so great that it can't even be looked at as a rehash as the game machanics are new, it doesn't even look the same game, that changes are that significant. It is still a game in the stealth/action genre though, with characters from previous games reminaing and new ones being introduced. What it seems like is because it doesn't have the exact same protocols that it did before it's not a stealth game to you and others, that's your opinion on what Splinter Cell should be. But stealth the definition of it means to go unnoticed, you simply cannot change the definition, I don't see where it has chanaged genre, apart from the opinion what the game "should" and "shouldn't" be.
Uh Huh. You make it sound like if they sent 1 man that would never of happened all based upon your "assumption" typical arm chair critic, yet no research is done by you. Please do more research, I gave you links and names of missions it's not difficult to look them up, or go to the library. My point was they do "different" missions, not always dark, they're always up for it, they work in groups or by themselves. I would like to see variety is that so much to ask? Where Sam would have to go on missions to blow up fuel depots, sabotage submarines, communication compounds, gather intelligence like he usually does even missile silo's was my original point. He can work in two's you know? typical for SEALS and Splinter Cells do it also. To do the same thing with little change is a little boring and un-challenging. You say that the NSA may have men who do what fisher does but don't look up the SOE? If you did you, know those agents on their own had to do jobs like that back in WW2. Infiltrating buildings stealing intel, setting up black propaganda stations, setting explosives in submarines, blowing up dams, ammunition dumps etc. They had no gadgets, can you explain how they could pull these off but for Sam Fisher apparently these missions are out of the question? even in a fictional setting. I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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You know, DixieWolf, it would perhaps help your tedious, repetitive and rather overbearing posts if your written English were to improve ever so slightly. No offense, just a little peace of helpful advice from me to you.
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Yes marinius, your post to me is such hypocrisy, out of the hundreds of threads that have tedious, repetitive and rather overbearing posts about how Conviction isn't Splinter Cell and many other complaints. You complain about mine?  No offense to you either, but please stop being a back seat moderator. If you want to send messages like that to me, do it though "Private Topics", where you can't embarrass me and bring unwanted attention to myself, such posts as yours, how great they maybe, break the ToU, maybe you should read it? Just some friendly advice to yourself.I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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You're misunderstanding...I think... My point was, many games, regardless of series, clearly fit within an established genre (because they're fundamentally the exact same). However, they're not considered rehashes, as long as the fluff of the game is different enough. Anyway, the SC's established genre was stealth, yes, but it specifically was L&S. I thought you already agreed that L&S play differs from other types of stealth? ------- "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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Splinter Cell & EndWar Moderator |
Actually the genre is officially called Stealth-Action.  Sigs & Avatars | Terms of Use | My Blog | Patches & more | Vth_F | W[N]M | NORG   - In loving memorial to my father Wilfried Geissler - † 6th of October 2007 - |
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LoL You do not get to win on a technicality! You know as well as I do that the SC's were all based around L&S.  ------- "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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Your post about written English is a piece in and of itself. You admonish DixieWolf about it, but ironically, you have spelling mistakes yourself. It's also a good way to draw attention to yourself by someone like me. Flaming of forum members is really frowned upon. Do not do it again.  "Do not build your community around a game.... Build your game around a community" Staff GhostRecon.net | Aggression WhiteKnight77 | Blackfoot Studios |
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 L/S stealth is a sub-genre within the larger stealth/action genre. All stealth/action was not created equal. Also from the info we do have, SCC is a action/maybe a little stealth.
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you mean like in the daytime? like in SCDA's cruise liner, or Kinshasha missions?
Sam Fisher works by himself all the time thats just the way it is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Echelon read this mabey it will give you some insight into what Sam Fishers job is exactly
submarines like the one in the downloadable mission from the first SC game or the submarine in Pandora tomorrow? missle silo's like the one in the first mission of SCDA? or was the "battery" mission from SCCT not silo..y enough, it had alot of missiles anyway
sam fisher could do those things, easily, but Sam's role in the nsa (an agency tasked with protecting US information systems and producing foreign intelligence) is to infiltrate areas at home or abroad solely for the purpose of gathering information to protect the united states from foreign and domestic attacks. The NSA doesn't send a black ops agent that they've spent thousands if not millions of dollars training to destroy a fuel depot, they could do that in 30 seconds with a paveway at 15,000 feet if they wanted. Theres a reason ubi never had Sam Fisher tasked with destroying fuel, it makes no sense you say i need to read up on SOE and the things they did in WW2? Well sam doesn't work for the SOE, he works for the NSA, 2 completely different agencies and this isn't 1940 its 2008, information warfare is rampant and its what the nsa deals with every day. -Phil |
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CoastaGirl let me give you some examples then. Splinter Cell 1,2,3 and 4 are in the Stealth-Action "genre" Connviction is in "Stealth-Action" It's still in it's "established" genre. The complaint about if it's changed genre is irrelevant as we know that it's in the same genre. Your complaint it beyond genre, it's the "theme" Splinter Cell used to be about Stealth-suit, Third Echelon, a supporting team, and the iconic goggles and light and shadows. These have been stripped, that doesn't mean that it's removed from a genre, it means the overall "theme" has changed. Light and Shadow is a "game mechanic" for navigation first and foremost through the game world, and an immersion enhancement into part of the thrill and atmosphere, this I will admit. But do I need this mechanic for it to be a stealth game? No I don't, stealth can be applied to a broad number of things, since the definition alone means going unnoticed. Some people have this misconception the only way you can do stealth is with light and shadows, this is wrong based upon the fact. I don't know where they specifically said, the game must be light and shadow gameplay, you must be working for a secret organisation etc... While this is part of the original premise, it doesn't mean it's set in stone, that it should always be like that. And if it changes, doesn't suddenly mean that it isn't Splinter Cell anymore, this is just the opinion many seem to have, and while I respect that opinion, that doesn't mean it is what we should all be pointing to. I could give you an example one of many. If you don't work for Third Echelon, the game can't be called Splinter Cell anymore. This is as silly as saying well, in Resident Evil you fight the umberella corp, but because you don't in number 4, and working for the secret service, the only thing consistent is you fight zombies, with this do you think the conclusion it's not a Resident Evil game anymore is justified? Such idea's are silly. I can understand someone defending the gameplay that they really like, but it doesn't have to be that way ALL the time. Another point, many say the game has changed a lot, when it just seems to be the surface which has changed. In SCCT, I used to use Sticky cams on walls to create a diversion with it's "click" sound. I used my knife on generators to create darkness and direct the attention of the NPC's elsewhere, or use my knife in innovative ways to cut cloth and plastic sheets to my advantage. In convictions what I've seen is the aggressive versions of these, you take a police officers radio, drop it and it pulls him away to investigate, similar to cutting power on the generator. I can blow up a propane tank, to divert my attention elsewhere, similar to me putting a wall mine on the wall and shooting it attreacts attention elsewhere. For some reason this isn't considered stealth, but taking the definition of "Stealth" It's diverted the attention elsewhere so I can go "unnoticed". Many things are similar but done in another context. It is just many have the opinion that you can't be aggressive and stealthy, as if they are mutually exclusive. Well, If I kill everyone on a terrorist compound get in and out without raising an alarm, is also stealthy, it just may not be the stealth you want to do, but it's still stealth. The fear seems to stem from, well I don't want to blow anything up. That I agree, but many seem to be jumping to this conclusion that that's all you do. In a sandbox universe that would be boring, they are merely examples, such as the ones shown in SCCT trailers. Velvet Assasin another good example, as the trailer starts it says, "Pre-Alpha Game Play Footage Not final game quality" how many complained about low FPS in the trailer as if it should be final? Many. I looked up what pre-alpha means, on wiki. To quote:
So you know what you hear people saying, "eeew Sam Fisher can throw that guy 100ft" this is why, it's a pre-alpha, see those limited options in the trailers? This would be another reason why, funnily the devs in an interview said that the propane tank was too obvious and many things would change as it was a pre-alpha. For people to come to a conclusion how the game will play out the box is very naive at this point in time. As for is the game a rehash or not. It really depends what each iteration does, are they simple rehashes or do they go above and beyond and do something new? You don't have to change EVERYTHING of a game to do that, though nice as that would be for every game. A good example, Call of Duty the first 3 games where the same little upgrades, and many people gamers and developers industry wide at D.I.C.E and GDC, said how COD4 was a breath of fresh air, we where bored of WW2. All Infinity ward did was take a WW2 theme and make it modern day, with modern weapons. Does that make it not a Call of Duty game using the logic people throw around here? Has it changed genre? The answer is no. If Resident Evil 1-2 where the same I would call it a rehash. The first game had 2 characters, with the same storyline, 2 different endings for each character, Awesome game. The second game had 2 characters the same, but each character had a parallel storylines basically 2 different stories for each character, with 5 different sub paths, and 4 different endings with addition of new game mechanics, that if you compared the first game to the second they where way different, yet the theme was kept the same and so was the genre, a rehash? Not a simple one. Does Splinter Cell add as much content and new gameplay mechanics to not be called rehash? The answer is no, 1,2,3 play very similar, with the exception of a few new improvements, compare this to other games that add a heck of a lot of content to give the gamer not only re-play value to check out other sub sections but gameplay mechanics and add variety to missions. Not much changed from them really part from a few things, not enough variety in my mind to not be called a rehash, it's the same thing until Double Agent which added variety. Like I said to in another thread, many found dark missions all the time boring, while new daylight missions was something to bring them back after seeing the Kinshasa mission. So while I agree, that you love Light and Shadow gameplay like Soron, and won't probably buy the game without, I am not saying that I want the game without the mechanic, I am saying I would like variety which includes both new and old. But I don't agree with the notion that if, it doesn't have the same theme it's not the same genre, when it obviously is, nor would I say you specifically need to have the mechanic to be Splinter Cell as you do not. These things are more of an emotional attachment to the game, and how you personally feel the game should be rather then, yes the game can be that way, and stealthy, but it's just not my preferred style of gaming. This seems to be what it is mostly about. I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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