quote:

quote:
Originally posted by simulacra:
Of course the series needed a change,



I Think It Did Need A Change. For The Purpose Of The Storyline.

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infinity ward did it with COD4 and that game was 10 times better than the old ww2 stuff.



Just An Example "Irrelevant as regards the SC-series."

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Crowds are the new thing, just as lighting was the thing back in 2002.



"Crowds are the new fad. It's been done, badly, in AC."
"Irrelevant as regards the SC-series."Thats What I Say

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Like I said, how can the game evolve in any bit if they keep the old stuff?



"There's room for SC to evolve still. Not keeping any of the "old stuff" means revolution, not evolution."

How Do We Know If They Got Rid Of It!!!!!!????

Edit To Reply


quote:
Originally posted by simulacra:
Of course the series needed a change,[/QUOTE]



I Think It Did Need A Change. For The Purpose Of The Storyline.

quote:
infinity ward did it with COD4 and that game was 10 times better than the old ww2 stuff.[/QUOTE]



Just An Example "Irrelevant as regards the SC-series."

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Crowds are the new thing, just as lighting was the thing back in 2002.[/QUOTE]

See Above

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"Crowds are the new fad. It's been done, badly, in AC."[/QUOTE]
"Irrelevant as regards the SC-series."Thats What I Say Too Happy

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Like I said, how can the game evolve in any bit if they keep the old stuff?[/QUOTE]


quote:
"There's room for SC to evolve still. Not keeping any of the "old stuff" means revolution, not evolution." [/QUOTE]

How Do We Know If They Got Rid Of It!!!!!!????

quote:

Originally posted by blabla84:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by simulacra:
Of course the series needed a change,



I Think It Did Need A Change. For The Purpose Of The Storyline.

quote:
infinity ward did it with COD4 and that game was 10 times better than the old ww2 stuff.



Just An Example "Irrelevant as regards the SC-series."

quote:
Crowds are the new thing, just as lighting was the thing back in 2002.



"Crowds are the new fad. It's been done, badly, in AC."
"Irrelevant as regards the SC-series."Thats What I Say

quote:
Like I said, how can the game evolve in any bit if they keep the old stuff?



"There's room for SC to evolve still. Not keeping any of the "old stuff" means revolution, not evolution."

How Do We Know If They Got Rid Of It!!!!!!????

I'm confused too, there so many different messages. Everyone keeps saying Ubi got rid of it and I have seen some statements saying game isn't about it anymore and shadows offer no safehouse for Sam. Neither means it won't be there, it just means it won't be all about it.

Then Ferland clearly says in the Ubidays interview that some parts of L/S will be there. How would you people interpreter that? That crowd stealth is L/S stealth?

Then again. If L/S would be completely useless there's no need to keep it. Sam is in different situation now, it's only sensible.


And Eskimo said I used bad quoting, this is actually getting senseless

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Originally posted by soron:
I don't see why they "need" to change the game mechanics to fit the story. The priorities are jacked up or that is just a lame excuse to attempt placate the masses.

Amen brother...preach it!

quote:

Originally posted by blabla84:
"There's room for SC to evolve still. Not keeping any of the "old stuff" means revolution, not evolution."

How Do We Know If They Got Rid Of It!!!!!!????
[/QUOTE]

I know, reading comprehension can be an arduous undertaking. Apparantly, it doesn't help hitting yourself in the head with a hammer.

At this point in time, you and I don't really know what they have gotten rid of. I replied to someone who obviously wants to get rid of "the old stuff", as he put it.

I Think It Means That L/S Is Still There But Not As Important (and therefore less well done? or less time spent on it or less sensitive.) But the fact is we should try the games ourselves and find out ('cause my opinion isn't and truthful as experience.

I really don't see how they could completely remove L&S and how anyone could believe they would.
You think if Sam went into a dark room and hid in a corner, the guard would see him? Heck no! Not only is it a Splinter Cell trademark, it's the realistic thing to do but I think, what they are saying is that it's not the main focus of the game and only option in a situation anymore. You won't automatically have the upperhand in every situation if you do that which is totally understandable since you don't have your night vision goggles anymore and would be as blind as the guards.

quote:

Originally posted by blabla84:
I Think It Means That L/S Is Still There But Not As Important (and therefore less well done? or less time spent on it or less sensitive.) But the fact is we should try the games ourselves and find out ('cause my opinion isn't and truthful as experience.

Well if L&S is still in the game (which I think it is), they probably won't spend as much time on it as the others but in truth, they don't really need to. They have done it over the years so much, they have perfected it! They know it like the back of their hand which means they won't need to spend much time on it, especially since it's not the main focus of the game anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by osborne10:

By the time Conviction is ready every one of us will accept anything, we all will be in mental hospital after all that hammering.

Where's my gravity hammer?

Anyone else dislike the camera in the game? It's pulled WAY too back. They need to bring it closer like in the past SC games. Also, work on the animations and use the euphoria engine.

I like now how all the "pro-SCC guys" are now back peddling like they are under fire. The reason we think they took out L/S is due to the preview that we all saw. In that preview there was a lot of fighting and "crowd stealth" and throwing random junk but no L/S.

And before you say thats just because they were just because they were just showing us what is new then I remind you of Sam hiding under the desk.

You know as well as I do what they were planning so don't try to say that was just my imagination.

yeh never thought about the angle.u might get an option to change it.its probably like that to look through crowds.or just view the maps better.because its an open area.but the closer camera would be cool

quote:

Originally posted by soron:
I like now how all the "pro-SCC guys" are now back peddling like they are under fire. The reason we think they took out L/S is due to the preview that we all saw. In that preview there was a lot of fighting and "crowd stealth" and throwing random junk but no L/S.

And before you say thats just because they were just because they were just showing us what is new then I remind you of Sam hiding under the desk.

You know as well as I do what they were planning so don't try to say that was just my imagination.

People who like the direction have been under attack from get go, for simply liking it, as shown by you calling me names. I remeber when I posted saying I like the new direction because the old format was getting a tad stale, and this new direction is just something which is needed to rejuvenate the series. To Quote 1up:

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Conviction promises to reimagine the somewhat repetitive series by giving sneaky protagonist Sam Fisher a Jason Bourne. style makeover, complete with urban combat and realistic crowd reactions.

Repetitive hummm....? They're not the only people saying this... I'm also told I need to justify the changes, or if I want crowd stealth go play Assassin's Creed... Some gamers will obviously not like the change, some have even said they hate innovation, which makes no sence, when innovation is what created the Splinter Cell Franchise from the start. It's gone away from starting with trifocals, stealth suit gadgets, to being on the run from the very people who employed you. What boggles me and I'm sure others, is where are you meant to use L&D for navigational progression? The screenshots inside buildings show light an example...



How are you mean't to hide in those kind of shadows? Then the other arguement is that, Sam should wait till dark... This is all good and well but in the context of things, this doesn't work... Hes a fugitive who needs to move constantly, meet up with contacts, who will give a place and a time, he cannot say, uh wait till dark... What if they're compromised?

In the video great example of this, Sam hacks a computer, and is told to wipe any evidence of him being there by one of the contacts he meets, who many believe is Lambert? He is forced to go to the server room and remove all evidence, how in this situation can you wait till dark? It makes no sence when put into the perspective the longer he leaves it the more likely it will eb spotted that it was acessed. What if other missions follow this aswell which has to make him push forward a lot of the time? Darkness doesn't work.

Your other arguements such as all they show is Sam fighting and shooting propane tanks... Yet look at the first Chaos Theory video I saw, it was shooting, snapping of neck, throwing grenades, slashing, back stabbing, no stealth what so ever... It was only till later was it shown the stealth elements... I don't know if you was paying much attention to the video's at all. Firstly there was "Work in Progress" bottom right hand corner, secondly there was the Ubi-Day video where the guy threw someone and the AI was glicthed he said "It's an early Alpha build". Most people understand it's nowhere near finish, and understand that, the hardcore/leet/power gamer will complain about it, because it should be polished. There was an article about this where Bungie showed off Halo 1, and hardcore gamers complained it had low FPS, and was unoptimized, even when told it was an alpha build, I don't think most hardcore can comprehend what "ALPHA BUILD" means...

It's not even a beta and many complain about the physics, even when in the demonstration, do you know what the word demo means? The presenter expressed it's not finished, lots of other places in that video was obviously broken, like him getting up inside the cafe, and disappearing... I could point out lots of flaws, but why? The demo was just to show off some new things that no other game is really doing, such as picking up items fluidly which looked good, it seems silly to bash an alpha build especially taking into consideration some of the alpha builds over the years like. Stalker, which some how leaked and when people played it, the sound files where from Counter-Strike, for people to bash it would be ridiculous, it's like making fun of a disabled person.

VickyTricky You rock! I so totally agree!!

quote:

Originally posted by VickyTricky:
It's not even a beta and many complain about the physics, even when in the demonstration, do you know what the word demo means? The presenter expressed it's not finished, lots of other places in that video was obviously broken, like him getting up inside the cafe, and disappearing... I could point out lots of flaws, but why? The demo was just to show off some new things that no other game is really doing, such as picking up items fluidly which looked good, it seems silly to bash an alpha build especially taking into consideration some of the alpha builds over the years like. Stalker, which some how leaked and when people played it, the sound files where from Counter-Strike, for people to bash it would be ridiculous, it's like making fun of a disabled person.

Exactly!! People complain "Oh we aren't getting any info, ubi sucks for not giving us any new info" and then they do and all people do is critisize what they give us! It's an early version for crying out loud!!! It's NOT finished yet! They are still working on it! It's what they have been doing for over 8 months!! What is the point of them giving us new info now if it's not finished yet and will just get picked on and critisized?!!

It's like going to a coffee shop and demanding a cup of coffee that very second and the lady at the counter is trying to say "it's not ready yet, can you please wait 5 minutes" and you continue to demand and demand, so, they give you a cup full of grounds just to get rid of you and you get mad at them for it.

quote:

Originally posted by VickyTricky:
Your other arguements such as all they show is Sam fighting and shooting propane tanks... Yet look at the first Chaos Theory video I saw, it was shooting, snapping of neck, throwing grenades, slashing, back stabbing, no stealth what so ever... It was only till later was it shown the stealth elements... I don't know if you was paying much attention to the video's at all. Firstly there was "Work in Progress" bottom right hand corner, secondly there was the Ubi-Day video where the guy threw someone and the AI was glicthed he said "It's an early Alpha build". Most people understand it's nowhere near finish, and understand that, the hardcore/leet/power gamer will complain about it, because it should be polished. There was an article about this where Bungie showed off Halo 1, and hardcore gamers complained it had low FPS, and was unoptimized, even when told it was an alpha build, I don't think most hardcore can comprehend what "ALPHA BUILD" means...

Thank you for pointing that out! That was exactly what I thought! In fact, all the Splinter Cell game trailers were like this, even the first one. They showed Sam running around, blowing stuff up, getting into huge gun fights with multiple enemies. There was almost no stealth in any of the first trailers until later on when they started releasing more!

VickyTricky, your points are all valid and good but you are directing to the lowest common denominator of anti-SCC people. Arguing saying that the gameplay makes sense within the context of story is largely pointless; I freely admit this, but the choice to change gameplay would not have been made because of the story. Either they truly think most fans of the previous games would prefer something completely different in the next game, or they have been told to change gameplay to make it more accessible, and therefore make them more money. If it is the former, then I believe they have made a serious misjudgement, it is the latter, well then it's just plain greedy as SC has always been profitable, no need to neglect one portion of the fan base to conform to a bigger market.

I understand where you are coming from when you talk about the physics and the pre-alpha build, but I don't see why we shouldn't be critical. If we get more info which shows corrections to the physics, or any other problems shown so far, well then that's great and I will express my approval. And if it has been fixed and they just haven't shown us, well then what is the big deal? Any dev who reads this will skim over anything that is no longer relevant or up to date. If we refrain from being critical they have no way of knowing whether we have any concerns over the game.

i agree with vickytricky

quote:

Originally posted by VickyTricky:
People who like the direction have been under attack from get go, for simply liking it, as shown by you calling me names.

#1 I was not the one who said your name sounds like a hooker name.

#2 People on both sides have been under "attack" as you say by the other side.

I'm already getting tired to this same talk over and over again. Same people, same lines, like on many other forums. Atleast I don't get addicted to this

-It's an early build without release date or any final marks. Even the developers give mixed and unclear messages; "Some parts of L/S will be there" against "Shadows will no longer provide Sam cover" What is official and final, I see no definitive still in or taken out result. So I think it is there but you can't complete the game by only relying to it, so it has smaller part. Though, I see it more as they don't want to say it straight, good or bad?

-Previews are always for marketing the most innovative and prettiest parts. Crowd stealth, dynamic physics and dusky, populated city are those for Conviction whereas CT had moves and environments. Conviction, bigger evolution or revolution?

-Sam is lone fugitive on his own without endless supplies, time or intelligence against superior enemy. He must do what he must when he can. He still has gadgets, stealth, hand to hand combat and object use, just more variety and improvisation instead of super all around technology.

-It was one level with some single parts. Sam's situation change so he might later move in dark mansions and many other different places, not just sunny Washington central, that's the life of fugitive. He has never been in single place, why start now? Oil rig from SC would have looked pretty similiar, no stealth, just action.

-Game starts with Sam as fugitive which is only sensible thinking the previous story. Washing that away and make story practically non existant from now on would efficently kill the series, more than one might-be affair. Not mentioning he might get his old gameplay, job or gear, SC-20 has been acquired twice earlier (surely not precisely the same because of the new stealthy-aggressive controls, but basics, all he needs is crouch and jump and moves releated to them like climbing and leaning).

-Whatever the result of previous points is, Conviction still looks amazing, refreshing and logical continuation to Splinter Cell.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kalle90,

quote:

Originally posted by VickyTricky:
Sam should wait till dark... This is all good and well but in the context of things, this doesn't work... Hes a fugitive who needs to move constantly, meet up with contacts, who will give a place and a time, he cannot say, uh wait till dark... What if they're compromised?

In the video great example of this, Sam hacks a computer, and is told to wipe any evidence of him being there by one of the contacts he meets, who many believe is Lambert? He is forced to go to the server room and remove all evidence, how in this situation can you wait till dark? It makes no sence when put into the perspective the longer he leaves it the more likely it will eb spotted that it was acessed. What if other missions follow this aswell which has to make him push forward a lot of the time? Darkness doesn't work.

"Context of things" is created by the Devs so they can make it work.

quote:

Originally posted by soron:

quote:

Originally posted by VickyTricky:
Sam should wait till dark... This is all good and well but in the context of things, this doesn't work... Hes a fugitive who needs to move constantly, meet up with contacts, who will give a place and a time, he cannot say, uh wait till dark... What if they're compromised?

In the video great example of this, Sam hacks a computer, and is told to wipe any evidence of him being there by one of the contacts he meets, who many believe is Lambert? He is forced to go to the server room and remove all evidence, how in this situation can you wait till dark? It makes no sence when put into the perspective the longer he leaves it the more likely it will eb spotted that it was acessed. What if other missions follow this aswell which has to make him push forward a lot of the time? Darkness doesn't work.

"Context of things" is created by the Devs so they can make it work.

By throwing all the sense and logic away, from both Splinter Cell and fugitive stories worldwide. "Let's do the old forgetting everything this far. And our passion to make groundbreaking game on the new console generation".