quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
@EskimoBob32

Maybe in order to avoid a misunderstanding you should consider, to make use of the smilies (not necessarily as intensive as I do ) or leave a little hint like *sarcasm off* / <sarcasm.exe> etc. - simply something that tells people who don't get the joke, that you didn't mean your comment serious!

I occasionally do, when I think it is likely the comment will be taken the wrong way. I thought in those examples it was fairly obvious. The "bi-yearly glance" thing, for example. Does anybody actually think I'm stupid enough to think Ubi will be having one quick glance at these forums every two years? I may not like what Ubi has turned the Tom Clancy franchises into, but I know they aren't stupid.

I think Woosy was probably caught up in the heat of the argument and just missed a joke, something I know I have been guilty of on occasions. The problem is that my sense of humour is often fairly subtle, and adding things such as sarcasm tags or smilies seems to take that subtlety away. I will take your advice into consideration in the future, however.

P.S. I'm glad you realise that you use smilies a lot... I wasn't sure whether it was just a habit you weren't aware of! lol

quote:

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
P.S. I'm glad you realise that you use smilies a lot... I wasn't sure whether it was just a habit you weren't aware of! lol

I'm aware of that and I always try to reduce it to a minimum, but on the other hand, they help me since 5 years over here, to avoid conflicts based on misunderstandings, underline subtle jokes from my side, help me to express my mood (without them my messages look much too serious - however I remove them if I want to make them look serious), get some cheap laughs from time to time and they also became my trademark somehow!

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

quote:

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
P.S. I'm glad you realise that you use smilies a lot... I wasn't sure whether it was just a habit you weren't aware of! lol

I'm aware of that and I always try to reduce it to a minimum, but on the other hand, they help me since 5 years over here, to avoid conflicts based on misunderstandings, underline subtle jokes from my side, help me to express my mood (without them my messages look much too serious - however I remove them if I want to make them look serious), get some cheap laughs from time to time and they also became my trademark somehow!

Well looks like your going to get a run for your money cause on other boards, I'm kinda known for my smiley addiction! I don't know how someone can make a post, especially a sarcastic or funny one, without them. I'll be posting something, putting in smiley's wherever I see fit and by the end of my post, I have a smiley at the end of like every sentence! I can't help it lol!

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
It's not that much of a stretch from blending/hiding in AC...so it's probably already in SCC.

Who knows.

Who knows? I think you knows.

quote:

However blending in SCC works different than in AC. In AC you can only blend in with a specific part of the crowd while in SCC - as we've seen during the video with Raphael Parent showcasing the early SCC build - it seems to be possible to blend in with every part of the crowd if it consists of enough people - however only as long as the crowd doesn't notice that. You can see in the video that Raphael blends in and tries to listen to the conversation of the AI, but then get's noticed from one of the AI members and pushed out of the "safe zone" - basically his cover is blown at that moment and so he starts walking away before the AI is able to alert the authorities.

I didn't mean just the scholars, though. You can sit on a bench (which would translate easily...a little too easily), or just "blend". It was so simplistic, though, it didn't feel stealthy at all. Being able to kill someone, stand over their body, but remain unnoticed by pushing one button...silly. SCC seems better, but I didn't know AC would be like that until I played it, either.
Of course, I equate sneaking with stealthy, and that's not true for everyone...

I'll reply to this one last time Bob see if you understand then...

MKCC14 said

quote:

We could say the same thing. If you dont like the direction the SC series is going, go play a different game. You already dont like what Ubi is doing with it.

I have been reading this forum for sometime. Many people said they like the new direction and are early adopters like myself I have the origianl xbox game, are told go play another game, which was my point, am I not a long term fan becausse I like a new direction? I'm told there is tons of light games out there, Splinter Cell is light and dark, go play one of those "other" games. The thing is the same could be said back, which was the point, this is a game many don't like now because it's light and uses crowd. Many could say you don't like where the series is heading, find a game that you do like with L&D like Tenchu, to me thats just common sence. It does work both ways, which was what MKCC14 was pointing out.

We all play Splinter Cell for different reasons, I play for the story not specifically for the gameplay. I acknowledge you need gameplay as a game cannot progress without good gameplay, remember here this is just subjective opinion. To me a story driven game needs story more then gameplay to be immersive, but it still needs good gameplay. To me it's not AS important, it's why I'm not stuck on the L&D game mechanic, the goggles, the black suit.. etc it's really that simple. I like a great story to follow, and I like to see new things. Here is an example for you, I played the controversial game Kane and Lynch. I enjoyed that game, if you've played it you will know there is many things that plague the game, like game machanics, i.e back to the wall is clumsy doesn't work properly etc. Yet the gameplay isn't why I continued to play, I played the game for the story which was pretty awesome, it reminded me of films such as "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels" and "Snatch" ofcourse this is apart of British culture, which maybe why i like it. I played K&L twoice once on easy once on hard to get achievements. Gears of War, another great game, gameplay is very repititious, it has some standouts like sawing Locusts in half and blowing up locusts with the toque bow, but it's not why I went through the game so many times, it's not what interested me in the game in the first place.

When I saw trailers for the game back in 06, the trailers had story elements explaining what had happened to Sera (fictional planet that looks like earth), I was very curious by that and others, at that point no one had even seen a piece of gameplay footage. I was interested in story. I have played Gears of war over 20 times, 3 times in SP to get achievements, and the rest being in CO-OP with friends sharing that same storyline and having fun experiencing it, and unlocking achievements. I cannot play Gears of War on Versus mode, with no story, it bores me, likewise SvM, those appeal to otehr gamers though are they wrong? No. Where as co-op on CT, keeps me immersed with story, thats why gameplay isn't my high priority to me and my friends, we play games for the story if it has great gameplay bonus. If you have games with lacking story I get uninterested very quickly, take Half-Life 2 EP2 for example. Very little story progression and it's very frustrating. The repititious gameplay recycled from 2004 doesn't do it any favours, it didn't impress me nor would I play that game again, it has no replay value to me, unlike Half Life 2 which does.

By the way when I first saw ConViction, like most did, I simply wasn't interested anymore. I saw trailers saw screenshots of Sam, and I debated it with jackie and many other friends. What changed? The fact we have some information what the story is about which interests me, the gameplay looks different, and i want to know how that will play on the story. See I'm not the person who will go through Chaos Theory without touching anyone, I grab them to hear their interogation, then knock them out. I want to know everything, it helps create and develop the character Fisher, he has strengths and he has weaknesses, those can only exploited by interacting. The colonel on the battery level where he talks about all those good men dying and his voice having anxiety gave me chills and you can sympathise with him, those plane pilots who you can or don't have to save. This builds his character that is important to me with regards to story.

I do play games with no story elements at all by the way but they're different concepts. I'm a great fan of Civ 4, the immersion for me is building a huge civilisation and defeating everyone, either by nuking them all, being sly and turning others against themselves, or winning the space program. It's like the Sims but way more intricate, it has a different type of concept and appeal. I would of never of played it if I wasn't forced to play by my male friends, it rubbed off. Hopefully you can see why to me, (which maybe I should of put in the other thread), Story driven games means more to me then gameplay, while gameplay games like Civ4 and The Sims don't bother me in the same way, this is just from my experience with games over a decade.

As for opinions on this board about the progression of this game and people being able to respect each other, I think thats a hard one. Too many people want to defend the old formula to the death and in turn can only turn to insults, it's why Vicky doesn't want to come back here anymore after being called a hooker, not implyimg you said that btw. It's not really encouraging posters to come back. I don't think I would want to come back either, but some have stronger skin then others. I haven't said you shouldn't be here, if it seems I have insuinuated such thing then I appologise. But I do think there is a limit to how much can be said on one topic. I am working with a poster to come up with something that may change that, and allow people who like to express themselves in "one" thread rather then multiple threads about how they feel about the direction the game is going. Likewise a singular thread for those who like the progression which will keep the forum clean, and debates more centralised.

The state of the forums aren't that much different before SCDA came out this was a similar atmosphere, when the game launched it was terrible trying to control all those posts full of anger, and not many willing to listen, as behind the scenes we'r chatting to those in ubi to help, so you can imagine the frustration with those who don't have much patience. But this is tame compared to the release of SCDA, people who have been here a while know about "find" post, but rather post in multiple threads to get their point across, almost thread hijacking. I can remember one about a poster wanting to get SCDA gamers to play MP, his response from people who didn't like the game was purely negative, why are they posting? Just to cause havock.

By the way you would be suprised what some devs do think they don't set out to make sucky games, put yourself in their shoes and people saying what you're making sucks the big dirty. Not all are happy bunnies from what they read they're very passionate people, they're just hard skinned I think and it must be frustrating not to make an official reply sometimes. But you never know some may or may not be posting in threads unofficially, you just might not of noticed.

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
You want to "fight" for what you believe in and I respect that, however you should also respect that others might have a different opinion, even if you can't share it.

That is a very biased statement. Where were you backing up my right to my opinion when certain individuals seem to want to dissuade me from stating it? Are you just saying that because you happen to agree with their opinion or what?

As for those of you who disagree with me please reply and tell me why because if every one here agreed with me I would not even bother to post here. I enjoy debating with you, I really do otherwise I would not be here. I think maybe you are mistaking my passion for genuine anger which I assure you its is not. Maybe I am irritated at times but you are overestimating your ability to affect my emotions. If you think I am really angry by any thing you say to me, unless you threaten me because that is getting personal, you are completely off base. You can call me all the names you want, call me stupid if you like but don't threaten me. That I will take personal.

quote:

Originally posted by Woosy:
I'll reply to this one last time Bob see if you understand then...

MKCC14 said

quote:

We could say the same thing. If you dont like the direction the SC series is going, go play a different game. You already dont like what Ubi is doing with it.

I have been reading this forum for sometime. Many people said they like the new direction and are early adopters like myself I have the origianl xbox game, are told go play another game, which was my point, am I not a long term fan becausse I like a new direction? I'm told there is tons of light games out there, Splinter Cell is light and dark, go play one of those "other" games. The thing is the same could be said back, which was the point, this is a game many don't like now because it's light and uses crowd. Many could say you don't like where the series is heading, find a game that you do like with L&D like Tenchu, to me thats just common sence. It does work both ways, which was what MKCC14 was pointing out.

Ah... the pin drops. We were not talking about the same thing. I quite argee that saying "go play some other action game" is the same as saying "go play old SC games", they are both just as stupid comments as each other. But either MKCC14 misunderstood CoastalGirl, or you misunderstood MKCC14, because I was under the impression that he was likening the silly old "go play old SC games" to her comments, which were not like that at all. I never got the impression from his post that he was making a generalisation to the old "go play action games" argument, but if he was, then he is quite right that it is the same thing. By specifically quoting CoastalGirl though, I get the feeling he had her categorised into that group.

quote:

We all play Splinter Cell for different reasons, I play for the story not specifically for the gameplay. I acknowledge you need gameplay as a game cannot progress without good gameplay, remember here this is just subjective opinion. To me a story driven game needs story more then gameplay to be immersive, but it still needs good gameplay.

Well, this is the subjective bit. I understand where you are coming from, I wouldn't enjoy Splinter Cell as much without a good story, but I need good gameplay first. Without good gameplay the series is redundant to me, as if I want a good story I will read a book or watch a movie. Now, that is subjective. What was never really subjective is the fact that a game needs gameplay, whereas a game could work without story, even if it does make it dull. That is what is meant when we say Gameplay > story.

quote:

I do play games with no story elements at all by the way but they're different concepts. I'm a great fan of Civ 4, the immersion for me is building a huge civilisation and defeating everyone, either by nuking them all, being sly and turning others against themselves, or winning the space program. It's like the Sims but way more intricate, it has a different type of concept and appeal. I would of never of played it if I wasn't forced to play by my male friends, it rubbed off. Hopefully you can see why to me, (which maybe I should of put in the other thread), Story driven games means more to me then gameplay, while gameplay games like Civ4 and The Sims don't bother me in the same way, this is just from my experience with games over a decade.

Funny, I always found that those games, in particular The Sims, are actually more likely to appeal to a group that like games to have stories. Statistically, The Sims is played overwhelmingly by casual gamers, and you would expect a casual gamer to be into story much more than a hardcore gamer. Why do these games have appeal to this group, if there is no story? Well, the answer is deceptively obvious; it's because there is an amazing story with characterisation not seen in other games, with the only difference being the story is entirely unscripted and plays out simply as the lives of the Sims you create. I don't think there would be too many gamers out there who play The Sims like any other shooter, where they get a pre-existing family and have an ultimate goal of having them reach the top a career path, essentially "winning" life. This is because people probably realise that any challenge you set will be just that, it is only set by yourself and you don't get anything for "winning" life because you cannot actually win it. Civilisation is slightly different, in that many people play competitively and on the higher difficulties it becomes an incredibly challenging game, but to the casual gamer on a lower difficulty level the same can apply: YOU make a great Civilisation, and if you choose to read everything about all the techs etc, it is quite an engrossing "story". I know that I fall somewhat into that category in RTS's; I often find myself losing a game because I have spent too much time sitting back, marvelling at my glorious army or just watching the battles in awe. Can you imagine trying to play a competitive game of Company of Heroes while constantly being amazed at how well the battles are depicted?

quote:

As for opinions on this board about the progression of this game and people being able to respect each other, I think thats a hard one. Too many people want to defend the old formula to the death and in turn can only turn to insults, it's why Vicky doesn't want to come back here anymore after being called a hooker, not implyimg you said that btw.

I don't believe it has to resort to insults, and I think you are being a little unfair saying that it is only the people defending the old formula that resort to such behaviour. I have seen on plenty of occasions someone is defending the new game and starts with the insults, in fact I would go so far as saying the majority of the people resorting to the insults were people who like the change in the first few months following the announcement of the changes. This seems to have changed in the last few months, I can see that. I think it's a shame when someone from either group starts with the insults because not only does it ruin the discussion and make them look like an idiot, but it also seems to make their whole opinion-based group appear juvenile. The old "You pro-convictioners are always... / you anti-convictioners are always..." arguments that got so many threads closed a while back show this pretty well, once a couple of people from one group say something stupid, people start generalising the whole group.

quote:

I do think there is a limit to how much can be said on one topic. I am working with a poster to come up with something that may change that, and allow people who like to express themselves in "one" thread rather then multiple threads about how they feel about the direction the game is going. Likewise a singular thread for those who like the progression which will keep the forum clean, and debates more centralised.

I don't think it is a problem having repeated debates as long as it is kept clean. For example if someone new comes to the forum I don't think it is fair to refer them to a topic in page 3 because everything they have stated has already been discussed. Healthy discussion is not something you should discourage, it is only when the spamming and flaming begins that you need to step in.

quote:

By the way you would be suprised what some devs do think they don't set out to make sucky games, put yourself in their shoes and people saying what you're making sucks the big dirty. Not all are happy bunnies from what they read they're very passionate people, they're just hard skinned I think and it must be frustrating not to make an official reply sometimes. But you never know some may or may not be posting in threads unofficially, you just might not of noticed.

I wouldn't be that surprised, to be honest. I have never said people set out to make sucky games, however I do think in today's market they get away with it if they make a sucky game a lot more than they used to, something which I do not see as a good thing. This might sound harsh, but if someone makes a bad game I think the reviewers need to let rip and I think the consumers need to not buy. When they know they don't get away with it, they put in all the effort the can and forget about things like rushed ports or ridiculous deadlines. This wouldn't mean everybody would like every game, but if the market would like this the average game quality would be much higher.

quote:

Originally posted by soron:
That is a very biased statement.

Nope, it's a statement that's purely based on your current behaviour.

quote:

Where were you backing up my right to my opinion when certain individuals seem to want to dissuade me from stating it?

Counter question: Did you try to contact these certain individuals and talk with them about it in order to clear the situation? Did you involve other moderators or even forum managers / community managers? Did you check your language? Maybe parts of your message have been misinterpreted and caused that conflict (whatever it was)? If you didn't do that, why not?

And to answer your question where I was:

Probably taking care of my family because my father had just died and left us with A LOT of "question marks", open bills etc.? No offense, but it might surprise you that even Moderators do have a private life outside of the forum with their own problems, they need to sort out because these threaten their very existence or the existence of their family members.

I'm very passionate about this forum, it's members, the games and all that (I mean why should I else moderate since 5 years) however it's still just a hobby - not a paid job and you can't expect from a mod to be here 24/7 and have a look at you because as soon as he / she is not around you'll get yourself in trouble.

We do our best to help (if we can) or / and communicate with everyone in here, but we can't be everywhere at the same time.

quote:

Are you just saying that because you happen to agree with their opinion or what?

I'm saying that to express what I think. Everyone here does have the right to express his / her opinions as long as this happens in a civil way, but none can expect from others that they'll share his / her opinion - that's what makes us individuals.

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

quote:

Originally posted by soron:
That is a very biased statement.

Nope, it's a statement that's purely based on your current behaviour.

quote:

Where were you backing up my right to my opinion when certain individuals seem to want to dissuade me from stating it?

Counter question: Did you try to contact these certain individuals and talk with them about it in order to clear the situation? Did you involve other moderators or even forum managers / community managers? Did you check your language? Maybe parts of your message have been misinterpreted and caused that conflict (whatever it was)? If you didn't do that, why not?

And to answer your question where I was:

Probably taking care of my family because my father had just died and left us with A LOT of "question marks", open bills etc.? No offense, but it might surprise you that even Moderators do have a private life outside of the forum with their own problems, they need to sort out because these threaten their very existence or the existence of their family members.

I'm very passionate about this forum, it's members, the games and all that (I mean why should I else moderate since 5 years) however it's still just a hobby - not a paid job and you can't expect from a mod to be here 24/7 and have a look at you because as soon as he / she is not around you'll get yourself in trouble.

We do our best to help (if we can) or / and communicate with everyone in here, but we can't be everywhere at the same time.

quote:

Are you just saying that because you happen to agree with their opinion or what?

I'm saying that to express what I think. Everyone here does have the right to express his / her opinions as long as this happens in a civil way, but none can expect from others that they'll share his / her opinion - that's what makes us individuals.

I have noticed you are very biased on every thing you post here when it comes to criticism of conviction you talk about my behavior as if I am the one telling people not to express their opinion.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
quote:
Originally posted by MKCC14:
Now you're just looking for excuses to be more mad at the development of the game.

I get the feeling you might be right! Wink2

BTW: If he doesn't like the game at all, why is he still posting here? Hmmm...
[QUOTE]

Why indeed, maybe it is to let people know my OPINION which you claim to be a defender of every one's right to post. I am one of many who still post here even though we don't "like the game." As you have stated before the game is still in development and I will continue to post my opinion until it is released.
Besides if I leave these forums the terrorists win.