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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
That's the thing, the whole reason Assassin's Creed sucked was because it was designed for the average gamer to just pick up and play. There was no depth to the game what so ever.

Could you tell us why you weren't satisfied other than just that you weren't and that it didn't cut it for you? There is nothing wrong with making a game easier to play.

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The whole idea behind the menus at doors was that you weren't going to be entering a room until you knew it was safe to do so because you'd checked your own area and you'd checked the area you were entering by the optical cable. I never found it cumbersome and, quite frankly, I think the 3 button scheme to control all actions in 3 different manners will be very glitchy. I'm trying to flip a table and I want to run away afterwards, but....damnit, why are you aggressively shoving the chair out of the way, no damnit, why are you picking up this and that? At least with the menus you know exactly what Sam was going to do because it was highlighted.

The game is not being designed by monkeys and idiots, they're working to prevent things like that from happening.

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Everyone on here for the light and shadow style of Chaos Theory is always saying that want another Chaos Theory and I think the other side of the argument are picking up on this and saying that they don't want another disappointing re-hash of a game. I totally agree, I don't want another re-hash of Chaos Theory, but what I do want is to see Sam as a Splinter Cell, not as a fugitive.

I will totally agree that the game did need a change to keep it fresh, the sneaking through designated shadows was getting a little too easy. But why didn't Ubisoft just change the mechanics of the game and give it a revamp? Why this drastic change to a fugitive style game instead of a spy styled game? It's completely out of context of the Splinter Cell franchise and it's a blatant marketing ploy.

Well now you get to know what real Splinter Cell is, the kind where Sam doesn't listen to someone else telling him how to do what he does best.

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Any time you have to make something more appealing for the masses you have to dumb it down and make it more accessible, but hey, that works in the music industry, why not the gaming industry?

No.

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
Frankly, that sounds like child's play. Splinter Cell isn't made for children. It's a thinking game and having to only think one button ahead is a little too basic. If this is the case I certainly won't be renting the game, let alone buying it.

No, no, no. You read what you wanted from what I said and ignored the context. They won't have to think more than one button at a time. The less time you spend with your fat-hassle control scheme, the more attention you can pay to the actual game. I've said before, I have spent so much less time trying to figure out how to parkour in Assassin's Creed that I can become so aware of everything around me and what I'm doing. If the free running had been harder and involved complex button plays, most people would not have been able to control it, honestly, because if you have to jump manually when you're running towards a ledge, you put less focus on where you actually want to jump and land and more focus onto timing, when you might jump too early or, much worse, too late. Altair jumps for you so you can put more focus into actually playing. I shouldn't want or need to have to pay attention to my controller when it's the game I bought to pay attention to. If I wanted to pay attention to the control then I wouldn't've bought the game in the first place.

Ultimately, "dumbing" the controls "smarts up" your awareness level in the game.

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I'm not wowed by an unlimited amount of actions, I'm impressed by some well thought out ones that suit the game. Sam being able to pick up anything realistically sounds cool, much like free running sounded cool (and is cool) in AC. It's great, but I'm much more interested in the gameplay (none of which they really showed us). As you you've said before, we've only seen 6 minutes, so I still can't understand how we can understand there's an unlimited amount of things we can do?

There's not, it's still very limited. You will not be able to pull ink cartridges out of the printer and put black lines under your eyes. There, I said it, it's limited. So now that it's limited just like Chaos Theory, doesn't that make it better?

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LOL

I find it ridiculous that you could say that they're looking for certain types of fans that won't complain and just repeat "All Hail Ubi"

Not only is that completely unrealistic, but it makes Ubi out to be a egotistical muppet of company that are only in it for their self gratification instead of for developing games that their fans want to play.

That's exactly why it's just a joke, my friend.

I don't actually believe that.

But the truth is, Ubisoft really hoped the "true" fans would be aboard, when we're the ones complaining more than all the critics combined. They let go of our hands for a second to take care of the new gamers, because they thought we were big enough to handle a new idea, and we stab them in the back.

You said it yourself, Splinter Cell was a niche game. Nobody had seen anything like it at the time. And now they're trying to make another niche game, but obviously we don't want niche.

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Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
The whole idea behind the menus at doors was that you weren't going to be entering a room until you knew it was safe to do so because you'd checked your own area and you'd checked the area you were entering by the optical cable. I never found it cumbersome and, quite frankly, I think the 3 button scheme to control all actions in 3 different manners will be very glitchy.

No, that wasn't the whole idea. That was simply the unintuitive control scheme of the time, and it just so happened to blend well with the fact that patience was a core aspect of the game.

On that note, the original control scheme did not reassure that you checked the area you're in at the moment or the area you're about to enter. Having that set of menus did not guarantee that the player would be thoughtful and patient and aware. He can still bash through the door carelessly, just with less fluidity and intuition than with the new controls. And on the same level, these new controls will not hinder your awareness. They will not cut you off from being able to use the stealth action to open the door slowly, and they will not force you to be careless and unaware. They simply make it easier and more fluid to do things aggressively and stealthily.

I've said many times before, so much so that I bet some people are getting really tired of reading it: patience and planning are still going to be core aspects of the game. If you don't agree with that, when you buy the game, shoot your gun off in front of crowds, get in a very public fight with ten or more guards, blow everything up, and see how long you last. Stray too far from the crowd and you'll be caught. Blow things up without having a plan of what to do afterwards and you ultimately will be shot. You're still going to have to plan, scrutinize, think through, and take your time when playing. Now you can just do all that with the compliment of a much easier control concept.

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Originally posted by Woosy:
Isn't that a little bit ironic though? In Splinter Cell you get an aggressive button and a non-aggressive button, that's been in all four games, is that in your opinion basic then? The difference is you don't have an in-game menu, this is where the buttons are context sensitive for each task, pushing non-aggressive button while walking will open the door slow, push the aggressive button, will bash the door, or could grab onto the door to stop someone getting through, if that's basic to you, then why aren't you complaining about the previous system? The only difference I can see is these ones are far more intuitive, and streamlined that they don't interrupt gameplay like previous with menu selection... To say the selection adds depth and complexity to the controls is absurd.

Agreed. I finally don't have to come to a door, stop and go through a massive amount of actions, when all of those extensive actions can be compiled into three buttons.

The first game made you open a menu just to pull out your weapon, and by the third game they have made a button just for that purpose, streamlined so you don't have to stop the game for a second to pull out your shooter. Now you can just pull it out whenever. Which obviously is dumbing down, but I don't see anyone complaining about that feature. The first game also made you select whether you wanted to knock them out or interrogate them, but by now you can simply knock them out on the go with no need to pull up a menu.

In the first game, when you brought up a menu, the game froze for you and time stopped while you decided what you wanted to do. But now, as of Double Agent, when you pull open the menu, the game still plays. Which means that if they had decided to make stealth kills and knocking out still a part of a menu selection, you could be getting shot while trying to select a knife kill on someone. Or, when you get up to them and select it, they could just take a few steps back and keep shooting, and you would be exited from the menu due to not being close enough to interact, and you would therefore be shot to death. But they added to the controls with the ability to do all that on the go. How terrible is that?

fake?

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Originally posted by S.V.G.:
fake?

no but still doesnt mean they might have changed it

Nov def sounds more than reasonable for a release date.

Well, its coming up on a year since we first saw Conviction, no info since, obviously. I think its safe to say that their hard at work doing more than just "tweaking", I have a feeling that where going to see something a lot different than what was presented before, hopefully Ubidays will shed some light for us.

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Originally posted by MeloniesHomeboy:
hopefully Ubidays will shed some light for us.

not so much...I'm sorry

They are prob just delaying the game to make it as good as possible.

cough* far cry 2 cough*