if think ubisoft are redoing evrything, i mean i think they are started all over again and returned to the roots of the game.
i think we're going to play sam fisher as we learn to love as an agent for the 3rd echlon.
this might just me thinking like this but u know we haven't heard anything from them so they might gone back and started to work on a total new game...

what do u think?

I doubt it, they're just being quiet as usual.

quote:

Originally posted by tevel3:
learn to love

We had to learn to love Sam as an agent of Third Echelon, can we learn to love him as an agent of his own right?

doubt it, it's not the same sam fisher.

How do you know that?

This is being done by Montreal, the people who made Fisher.

They've said that over the course of six years, they've constantly been defining him as someone. As of Chaos Theory, he was more defined than in the original. As of ConViction, they have defined him even more. They've said that this is the Fisher they've had in mind since the start. The hair, the beard, and the personality, they wanted him to be like this since day one.

Trust me, this will be Fisher.

I agree with you, tevel3. You do not cut off all contact with the press and delay a game for 1 full year just to polish or fix bugs. They either lost a key member of their team or they are doing some major redesign.

In fact, I don't think the game will show up this fall. Around July or August I think we're going to hear of another delay. I think the Conviction footage we've seen so far was all they ever had. It was just some demo/prototype they quickly threw together and when they tried to build a whole game around that concept it just wasn't working or fun to play.

So, I say they are doing some serious redesign and the game won't ship this fall. And I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.

I will bet any one person (first taker) a copy of the game that the it doesn't ship this year. If it does, I buy you 1 copy of Conviction (your choice of platform). If it doesn't make 2008 you buy me Conviction. This offer stands until 2008-04-22. That gives everyone a few days to read this. No takers by then, it's off the table.

And I disagree with you LaurenIsSoMosh. Fugitive Sam Fisher is not Sam Fisher. Super spy, black suited, triple goggle secret agent Sam Fisher is Sam Fisher.

Let's shake on it.

ALL RIGHT! Someone with a pair of BALLS on this forum. You're on LaurenIsSoMosh. What platform do you want it for?

Lol, I never said I was up for it, I just want to shake hands online

How about... let's wait until Ubidays and see what's up.

Because if we agree right now and then they come to Ubidays with the same gameplay they've had for the last year, and they say they're done and ready to ship in three weeks, that's not fair to you because you weren't expecting.

And, well, if they come to Ubidays with a different gameplay and say it will be delayed due to rewriting from the ground up, or if they don't even show up at all, that's kinda not fair to me because I wasn't expecting that either.

So, if you want to alter your deal a little, I wouldn't mind agreeing after Ubidays.

If you don't want to, give me an hour to think about agreeing.

I'm 360. And you?

Scratch that, I'm up for it.

I'll even reserve a limited edition for you if you win.

Not sure. 360 or PC. Probably 360 but I am not sure yet. If the PC version supports Games for Windows Live and I can play with Xbox gamers while I am on PC then I will go the PC route.

quote:

Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:
How do you know that?

This is being done by Montreal, the people who made Fisher.

They've said that over the course of six years, they've constantly been defining him as someone. As of Chaos Theory, he was more defined than in the original. As of ConViction, they have defined him even more. They've said that this is the Fisher they've had in mind since the start. The hair, the beard, and the personality, they wanted him to be like this since day one.

Trust me, this will be Fisher.

it doesn't matter what they wanted and how they wanted him to be over the course...
what matter is that this is how we love and want sam fisher and since we dont know what they wanted when they started this franchise then it doesn't matter since this is what we know and this is the sam fisher we know, this is how we knew him and learned to love him so now to take the game and to say this is the same fisher u need to love cuz we said so is just not right!
the same fisher we loved was from the first game to the third, we lost this sam from the fourth game, no conversation no cynical just playing with no real goal, no more cool cut scene just took him and stripped the character out of the name...

and they can't say "this is what we wanted", it's been 6 years around, a game evry year and a half, this is how we learned to love him they can't change and say this is what u like and this is sam u love.

Alrighty, it's a deal.

And minor delays don't count. If they say it'll be here November 15 and then they say there's a 3-day-delay because of shipping problems, that's just lame

Overall though, if I lose I won't be sore about it.

Cross your fingers that they play hookie and sleep through Ubidays 'cause I got a feeling they'll be there with beaming smiles and gameplay presentations that will leave everyone drooling, maybe even a stealth screenshot or two of a light and shadow section.

quote:

Originally posted by tevel3:
it doesn't matter what they wanted and how they wanted him to be over the course...
what matter is that this is how we love and want sam fisher and since we dont know what they wanted when they started this franchise then it doesn't matter since this is what we know and this is the sam fisher we know, this is how we knew him and learned to love him so now to take the game and to say this is the same fisher u need to love cuz we said so is just not right!
the same fisher we loved was from the first game to the third, we lost this sam from the fourth game, no conversation no cynical just playing with no real goal, no more cool cut scene just took him and stripped the character out of the name...

and they can't say "this is what we wanted", it's been 6 years around, a game evry year and a half, this is how we learned to love him they can't change and say this is what u like and this is sam u love.

Eh, they didn't make the fourth game so it's not their fault that Shanghai didn't have the same Sam in mind as they did...

quote:

Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:

quote:

Originally posted by tevel3:
it doesn't matter what they wanted and how they wanted him to be over the course...
what matter is that this is how we love and want sam fisher and since we dont know what they wanted when they started this franchise then it doesn't matter since this is what we know and this is the sam fisher we know, this is how we knew him and learned to love him so now to take the game and to say this is the same fisher u need to love cuz we said so is just not right!
the same fisher we loved was from the first game to the third, we lost this sam from the fourth game, no conversation no cynical just playing with no real goal, no more cool cut scene just took him and stripped the character out of the name...

and they can't say "this is what we wanted", it's been 6 years around, a game evry year and a half, this is how we learned to love him they can't change and say this is what u like and this is sam u love.

Eh, they didn't make the fourth game so it's not their fault that Shanghai didn't have the same Sam in mind as they did...

they had, ubisoft Montreal has sent ppl from their team over their and they made sure it's gonna mach the fifth game

Maybe, but to a limited extent.

They can't tell Shanghai all the jokes that have to be said by Sam and the hairstyle he has to have and if his appeal still sticks with fangirls in New York City.

They send over their people mainly to help Shanghai, not watch them like supervisors and tell them how it's going to be done. They were sent over to make sure that the basic storyline and elements are going to tie up with the fifth game, and it does, so they did their job.

This was Shanghai's game and they had their own creative directors and designers, and they had their own idea of what Sam should be in the crisis of his daughter's death, and whether or not Montreal shared those ideas, Double Agent's story and elements set up for ConViction, so that's that.

Oh, and...

quote:

Originally posted by TFS_Jackie:

quote:

Originally posted by SilentAce07:
There have been rumors that the shadow/stealth gameplay is back and that they changed the direction of the game BECAUSE of the community.

The keyword there is rumors. Our forum manager has already addressed the rumors that the game has been started/retstarted to be changed as untrue. If you guys want to believe the game is being changed, there is nothing that can be done about it on Ubi's end.

Yep, you heard it, untrue.

quote:

Originally posted by tevel3:

quote:

Originally posted by LaurenIsSoMosh:
How do you know that?

This is being done by Montreal, the people who made Fisher.

They've said that over the course of six years, they've constantly been defining him as someone. As of Chaos Theory, he was more defined than in the original. As of ConViction, they have defined him even more. They've said that this is the Fisher they've had in mind since the start. The hair, the beard, and the personality, they wanted him to be like this since day one.

Trust me, this will be Fisher.

it doesn't matter what they wanted and how they wanted him to be over the course...
what matter is that this is how we love and want sam fisher and since we dont know what they wanted when they started this franchise then it doesn't matter since this is what we know and this is the sam fisher we know, this is how we knew him and learned to love him so now to take the game and to say this is the same fisher u need to love cuz we said so is just not right!
the same fisher we loved was from the first game to the third, we lost this sam from the fourth game, no conversation no cynical just playing with no real goal, no more cool cut scene just took him and stripped the character out of the name...

and they can't say "this is what we wanted", it's been 6 years around, a game evry year and a half, this is how we learned to love him they can't change and say this is what u like and this is sam u love.

It does matter though, this is what gamers really seem to forget. These guys don't just create games for you and me, but they like to challenge themselves to push the envelope on innovation and gameplay mechanics, if they didn't do this there would be no Bioshock, no Alone in the Dark, no Spore, it would be the same derivative games from the late 90's being rehashed over and over again. You simply want the same Chaos Theory with a bit of spit and polish, what you're aiming for there, is what we call in the trade *expansion pack*. Many of us want to move forward see new ideas that we could never imagine and have fun on that gameplay.

You will always have stubburn gamers who *cannot* let go of old gameplay mechanics, nor can they understand why gamers feel the current light and shadow gameplay is, is repititious, monotonous and mastered. There is no objectability to those eyes, can you understand why many find the gameplay stale? If not then you need to look and be honest, and then come back and say, yes I understand but I prefer the old system, to simply say it's not stale or see other points of view is ignorance. I however can understand why people seeing changing the heritage of the games design as a bad one, it doesn't seperate itself from any other game per se, nor does it play the same.

However the gameplay mechanics looking back are simple, jump to light to shadow, shoto a light bulb to create a shadow, it's so easy to play the game, there isn't a challenge anymore, many always say well increase the AI, uh yeah how? You're in a shadow, if the AI see's you the main complaint will be how did he see me? I see shiloutee suggestion to improve it, but the game still remains linear, it's a small update to cover an ever growing problem with the game. If you won't allow the develoeprs freedoms to give different locations, different senario's from different weather conditions and day settings ligth and dark, then what is the point? Hopefully next month they will show soemthing off, and that will be it hopefully, everyone will have to accept what it looks like.

quote:

Originally posted by DixieWolf:
You will always have stubburn gamers who *cannot* let go of old gameplay mechanics, nor can they understand why gamers feel the current light and shadow gameplay is, is repititious, monotonous and mastered. There is no objectability to those eyes, can you understand why many find the gameplay stale? If not then you need to look and be honest, and then come back and say, yes I understand but I prefer the old system, to simply say it's not stale or see other points of view is ignorance. I however can understand why people seeing changing the heritage of the games design as a bad one, it doesn't seperate itself from any other game per se, nor does it play the same.

You couldn't possibly be talking about me...could you?

Seriously, you know as well as anyone that what you just said isn't true. I know why some people are bored with the L&S, and I think it's fine. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions - just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I can't see things from your perspective (though, frankly I'm not quite sure what your perspective is, as you came here talking of neutrality).

As I've said to several others before you - I'm not trying to take away from your gaming experience. I'm merely looking out for mine.

quote:

However the gameplay mechanics looking back are simple, jump to light to shadow, shoto a light bulb to create a shadow, it's so easy to play the game, there isn't a challenge anymore, many always say well increase the AI, uh yeah how? You're in a shadow, if the AI see's you the main complaint will be how did he see me? I see shiloutee suggestion to improve it, but the game still remains linear, it's a small update to cover an ever growing problem with the game. If you won't allow the develoeprs freedoms to give different locations, different senario's from different weather conditions and day settings ligth and dark, then what is the point? Hopefully next month they will show soemthing off, and that will be it hopefully, everyone will have to accept what it looks like.

First off, why is simple bad?

Second, no one's asking for a linear game, and your apparent belief that it would be an automatic is disappointing, especially considering the fact that we've already talked about it.

I don't think you know this game, but take my word for it - Vampire Rain retains classic sneaky gameplay, yet utilizes an open(ish) map, and weather that plays a role beyond just atmosphere. Unfortunately the overall quality of the game is...poor...but it shows a glimpse of what could be done. You just have to have a little imagination.

My perspective is this, I will wait and see how Conviction will turn out it could be good could be bad, I don't assume it's going to be the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel. That said I won't assume it's going to be crappy either. However I'm excited at the fact something new is being tried instead of the generic rehashes we get in this gaming industry. To keep people interested, fans a developers alike, move move forward a generation. As I posted before CostalGirl, one of my fav franchises, is Resident Evil. I wasn't suprised to hear the lead producer on the Resident Evil projects when he said, other developers where getting bored recycling the same gameplay again and again, so they switched to other capcom projects. I hear similar from Thomas in the interview he did, they're tired of doing the samething which they believe is mastered. People honestly cannot see beyond that, there must be some sinister deed, it's for money etc...

quote:

First off, why is simple bad?

CostalGirl, I look back at games made in 2005 and they're simple. I look at the original Rainbow Six 1998, it is a simple game now, complex when it came out, but times and standards have changed, people have set the benchmark higher, should I accept games that play like a game back nearly a decade ago? No! The complexity however is the planning phase, but you don't have to do that, and if you look at the gameplay it is simple as hell. To give you an example, the first mission is an embassy, you can use an unsupressed (silenced) weapons and fire it, and the AI in the lower levels don't react. You can also take your sweet time which is a total contradiction, in a game that should require, speed, agression and suprise. But that's not the case, if I go back and play Rainbow Six now, it's a cakewalk because it's simple, so is simple good? No. Konami created a game called The Regiment, while this game has bad graphics, the gameplay is a ten fold progression over anything Rainbow Six has put out, it made you think, it made you follow SOP's. There where booby traps, you had to look for,hostages that had weapons taped to their arms and make a quick decision, which made you think quickly, and there where feigning dead baddies which you had to shoot, the game is very complex and makes you do everything quick, would I want a simple Rainbow Six or a progressive game like The Regiment? I take the latter.

quote:

Second, no one's asking for a linear game, and your apparent belief that it would be an automatic is disappointing, especially considering the fact that we've already talked about it.

Read the threads, so many people already came to the conclusion the game is a failure because it doesn't follow their set of imaginary rules, it must be this way must be that way... This is how Splinter Cell has to be with Lambert, Sam with Goggles etc... That's called nostalgia. I think it's quite ironic, that Michael Ironside himself said when working on his new Tv series called Ice Planet said:

quote:

When you create a character everyone loves, you never get someone to let you do anything to them. It's a marginal business at best, and once you get something that works they want you to protect it and keep it. And in doing that, I think it starts to degenerate." Mr Ironside had some very radical views on lead characters. " You have to be willing to kill a character, you have to be willing to take those risks".

Sounds familiar? Sure does, it wouldn't suprise me if he had a word with them on the new Splinter Cell, as from interviews hes fed up of playing characters that don't move anywhere but just stagnate because it works, likewise for Artists and game design. Yet I wonder how many would tell him, well I want Sam Fisher and Splinter Cell this way!! they would be proving his point.

quote:

I don't think you know this game, but take my word for it - Vampire Rain retains classic sneaky gameplay, yet utilizes an open(ish) map, and weather that plays a role beyond just atmosphere. Unfortunately the overall quality of the game is...poor...but it shows a glimpse of what could be done. You just have to have a little imagination.

Yes, I agree, if we also use our imagination for Conviction many things could be done too, all we have to do is wait. What I hope is for a system like Alone in the Dark, where by, the game is very open ended, and each puzzle has multiple ways around it. That game has so many options the developers are having a hard time testing them as there could be a way around a puzzle never thought up before because you can be that inventive and improvisional with items in the gameworld, just goes to show how good innovation can be, when people allow the freedom.

quote:

Originally posted by tevel3:
doubt it, it's not the same sam fisher.

well there have been already rumors about it so i guess u right