| JUMP TO: | Splinter Cell ConViction | SC Legacy [Console] | SC Legacy [PC] | Off-Topic | Hints/Tips | Technical Help |
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Maybe it was just me, but there just wasn't anything exciting about AC's "stealth" elements. Aside from those [really annoying] assassination side-quest thingies, it really didn't matter if you were seen or not. Blending in the crowds wasn't suspenseful to me; it didn't build tension - almost always, as long as you hold the blend button down, you won't be seen...which is kinda boring... It's nothing like hiding in a dark corner, waiting for the perfect moment to move so as to not be seen...  If you were seen in AC, so what? You could always get away, it never affected a score, and if you wanted to fight, it was super easy (coming from me, that means a lot  ).-------  "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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I would say generally speaking, majority of Action-Adventure games are like that, they rarely punish the gamer, and the high focus points are on the story, to giive you an example. Dead Rising has huge crowd gameplay mechanics similar to Assassin's Creed, many will find the gameplay and the gameplay mechanics to be repititious exactly the same. I think these games appeal to a different audience altogether then say, Splinter Cell game mechanics on Action-Adventure it doesn't work. You can take a big list of Action-Adventure games and and you would have the same type of feel that, it didn't build much tension, the fighting sequences where weak, or too easy. I just think different audience, like Romance is to Action, thriller audience, it doesn't have the suspence nor the action naturally as a genre. I mean to just point out some games, Lost Planet, Just Cause, Tomb Raider, Silent Hill are very in common for that. I.e some are puzzle based, or they require a lot of combat, for a gamer who is mostly immersed in stealth based gameplay, I don't think you would really get immersed in that genre. I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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I thought so too. The social stealth was just annoying most of the time. I think it would be fun in small doses but when you have to walk every where at a slow stroll it really detracts from the fun. I found that if you just tap the stealth button every few seconds when you get that beeping sound most of the time they still wont see you and you can maintain a normal walk. I think part of the reason the stealth aspect was so bland was due to the enormous distance you have to travel walking so slow. I usually ran every where and dealt with the consciences when I got to where I was going (not really that difficult any way).
The fighting system was also fun in small doses but it also got repetitive. Toward the end it was more and more focused on fighting. The fighting to me got difficult at the end where you have to fight a large crowd with nowhere to run and the same moves that worked over and over again though the whole game up until that point all a sudden are all blocked or parried. Also I don't know if any one ells experienced this but for some reason toward the end Altair started to use more and more non-lethal counters much to my annoyance. This resulted in very long battles that I started losing as a result of a bad case of Nintendo finger. |
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I pretty much countered my way through the entire game (the hardest achievement for me was the combo one - took forever). And yes, the battles did get very, very long. But, still, they were easy from a gameplay standpoint. I know I've said it before, but you can really do an entire battle with one hand on the controller and half an eye on the screen... Anyway, I just hope the stealth options in SCC go way far beyond what we saw in AC. LoS games can play like L&S games, but only to a point, IMO, and definitely only if the developers want them to. ------- "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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I too was annoyed that he wouldnt kill the enemies at the end with one counter-attack, but I found the reason why he does that. The enemies at the ending had on heavy armor, which made it hard for him to just kill them with one blow. If you go back to a city and fight one of those regular guards(they have no helmet), you can kill them in like one blow. Also, soron, why were you walking through the crowds everywhere? You should have took advantage of the free running and used the rooftops. Or were you scared of getting hit with an arrow?  Never Ignorant, Getting Goals Accomplished |
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I did use the rooftops but when you have your objectives on the floor lev like in most of the side missions where you have to assassinate a bunch of guys you have to walk around. It would prob take just as long or longer if you have to keep climbing up and down the buildings. Did any one ells really hate the ending because I was really ticked off when I finished it and the credits ran I felt really ripped off! I rented this game for 7 days and beat it in 2 and the only reason I played it through after the 1st 3 levs was #1 I spent $8 @hollywood video and #2 to see what happed at the end.  The ending was so lame! 
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I frickin' loved AC. If it wasn't for BioShock and Mass Effect, it would've been my GOTY. It felt like an expertly crafted episode of LOST, mixed with the most awesome historical perspective ever made. Besides, Altair's arc was completed. Desmond's has passed its first stage. Plus, after you've finished, there's still the motherload of clues to check out. You can find out more about the (probable) sequel than you think.
Personally, I'd like to see a deeper stealth mechanic for ConViction. AC was very much stealth light, but it worked. Although it never felt that satisfying to walk among the crowd on the street. I felt that the AI was a little too simple, so I'm hoping they'll fix that in the installment of AC. But most of all, I'm hoping ConViction will feel quite different from AC. Harder, with a different focus, more systematic... It seems I'm one of the few all-time SC fans who's still hyped for this ballsy reinvention of the series, and I'm hoping Montreal take all the time they need to perfect it. And most of all: that they don't cave in to purist BS before the game is released and rated. If it turns out to be critically acclaimed and has a decent sales number, I'll be very glad to accept the next 'Fugitive Sam' game. In any case, I have faith in the studio, and I'm very much looking forward to playing this game. |
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The problem is that the scoring system in CT was the biggest downside of the entire game, if I'm seen I might have to kill the guy but that makes my score lower. This lead to me having to quickload a bunch of times just because I felt that the kill was unnecessary and rash in reacting to the situation directly, but since I after the quickload knew where he'd pop up I revised my strategi long before I got to the tough spot, as if sam was some omnipotent god who knew everything. But since I like to play the SC games something in between being anally stealthy and being aggressive I feel that I'll like conviction. Most ppl cant help being atleast a little competative, so even if you dont really care about the score you hate seeing bad ones. Scoring has no place in games outside sports games and platformers... |
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Especially because then game has to be designed not to have one action fight. The Bathroom evasion of mercenaries isn't pretty or stylish in any way, it's a lot about luck and it's lot funner to fight them. Taking out the action parts in SC1's Palace would have been real downer too. Facing the 10 night vision goggle guys really was great and refreshing. Scores could be ok at best, but usually they affect game design too much. I wouldn't mind having seperate statistic menu which shows my playing time, kill, knockouts, alarms, headshots, interrogations etc. but that wouldn't be huge thing either. Rather have 10 mins more single player. First I wondered why Xbox DA didn't have scores. After little thinking I realized game couldn't handle them, I wouldn't be able to achieve 100% on many levels. New York would have been complete **** with scoring, the action stealth way was perfect. |
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So, again, some of us really enjoy playing the game to a stealth extreme. Considering that no other game type offers it, and what we saw of SCC showed that we could be losing it, we care. I like the scoring system. Most stealth games have one, because the focus is on being stealthy. If you're not stealthy, you're not going to get the best score (actually, in many of them, you're probably just going to die a lot and never finish the first level). As strange as it may sound to someone who doesn't feel that way, getting 100%/all zeros/A-Ratings/Five Stars (depending on the game... ) can be pretty gratifying, and I certainly don't want to see it taken out.I know I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating because we seem to be getting into that rut again. There are plenty of "pro" people here that I like; just because we don't agree on the direction change in SCC doesn't mean we don't get along. We each understand where the other is coming from, and even though we don't share each other's opinions, we respect them. ------- "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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I liked the scoring system as well but it would be nicer to get more rewards for getting better scores (the one thing I did like about DA 360). |
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You say it's possible to finish Bathhouse, Presidential Palace or New York with smooth100% completion? I surely like the stealth part, otherwise I would play something else. Still the few well placed action scenes seem very needed thinking the overall. It's Sam the super spy with super weapons afterall. In a way I don't care whatever there is or is not scoring, I'd like to get 100% but meh. Thing is that it affects the entire game, all level design must be made that in mind and that causes linearity or repetion. Xbox DA wouldn't have worked well with scoring, and I surely wouldn't have wanted the game changed to make me able get 100% on every level. Star system reflecting your overall performance, or something else could work and be great. The 0-100% system is bit weak, affecting the whole game from start. Unlocking original SC style interviews and trivia would be exciting. Respectively  |
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I agree totally, I prefered the original system that if you had been seen and stealth compromised alarms would go off, but you could always prevent that by knocking out or killing the guard, it came down to personal preferemce. The whole act of stealth is to go unnoticed, thats simply the principle. It can be at any cost, as long as this is maintained, this is how it's done in real life. If there was to be a score system it should be, based on how you was noticed i.e your stealth was comrpomised. It felt a little annoying to, as you say come across a guard, only option is to go aggressive because he will see me, but now I've mucked up I must reload, basically saying the action you took was a mistake, when realistically, it would be acceptable to keep the integrity of stealth. I didn't like SCDA's Stealth score system is was draconian to the level of frustration. If you moved something as simple as a coke can in the snow, you where punished, there is stealth and doing your best to go unnoticed then there is insanity. I was suprised leaving footprints in the snow in Iceland didn't take away my stealth score the system was so brash. simulacra, I think you point speaks volume in SCDA. If you hacked the door, you would lose stealth score, basically limiting you to find the code for the door, but behold you must interogate someone for that code, so again a catch 22, the only way around this is reload, or start the game with remembering the codes for the door. Somehow this is acceptable in the game, regardless that the AI should notice that someone just recently enetered the code, just liek they know it's been hacked, this doesn't happen, it feels inconsistent and a contradiction. I do hope the score system is only in there for Elite level, not easy or normal modes. But if it's as free roaming as they say it is there shouldn't be any levels at all in normal sence you get a mission completion screen. @CoastalGirl, I think it's a double edged sword, where you don't like holding down the blend button in Assassin's Creed, is very Liken to sitting in a Shadow in Splinter Cell to blend into the surroundings. It's just don't in a different context to which you seem to prefer. Assassin's Creed isn't a stealth based game more Action-Adventure with stealth elements to complete certain tasks, as with majority of Action-Adventure games it's aimed at a different audience, more casual gamers playing that genre. The same could be said with Splinter Cell if you raise the alarms three times, there is no punishment on the gamer not that I saw in Chaos Theory, it's similar to Metal Gear Solid, that they will eventually ignore you and go back to their tasks. The only thing affected is the score, but that isn't really a punishment to the gamer, even if he/she completes all tasks there is no reward, it's more of a personal achievement, as either way agressive or passive are considered optional. I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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I would actually like the games to be even stricter in terms of what would lower a score. Leaving doors open (I'd like to re-lock doors, too...), breaking things (like bottles), etc. Basically, anything that leaves a trace. That said, I agree that it's annoying to be forced to do something that will lower the score.
Well, "blending" in AC just wasn't tense; there's nothing to it. It's not about patience and timing your movements, it's just about keeping the button held. ------- "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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This sounds good in "theory"  don't get me wrong. But if you play Chaos Theory, and you get to Hokkaido, the guards knew someone had been at Displace because someone had been through the files, no matter what you do in terms of hacking, will leave a footprint behind, do you think the score should of dropped because they knew someone had been there? I think the main difference is, by the time they found there had been someone tampering with their systems, and top secret files, you're long gone, and they where caught with their pants down, your mission was a success, you got in and got out unnoticed. At that point it didn't matter if they knew someone had been there or not, you had the intelligence. My point here is that, no matter what you do in the game world you're going to leave a footprint behind, the difference is, can that footprint be traced back to anyone i.e a name? The answer seems to be no as shown in Chaos Theory.
It's not meant to be that type of tense you're looking for, it's not the same as Splinter Cell where you get a thrill from being in the shadows and having that anxiety of just making it before the guard comes around the corner. Assassin's Creed is an Adventure game, the tense comes from being in a cat and mouse game, timing assassinations and escaping, thats the tense, Action-Adventure games mainly focus on the story. It may appeal it may not, it mostly appeals to thsoe in the Action-Adventure genre i.e Tomb Raider. You would feel similar that there isn't any tense moments where as those who love that genre will find many aspects which are tense, it's just a different type of tense. That genre is generally not played like Splinter Cell. You're trying to make it play as how it wasn't designed to be. Would be liken to play Dead Rising, another Action-Adventure game with stealth, which you can do in certain areas to hide past the Delta Force team later sections of the game, it has stealth elements. But you can't label it a stealth game. It's a different genre altogether, with Assassin's Creed many are trying to associate it to being a Stealth game it's not, it simply Action-Adventure with stealth elements, many games have stealth elements, like Rainbow Six, but it's called a tactical Shooter with stealth elements. The producer herself said it's an Action-Adventure game. I thought you knew me but it seems you never did I tried to find you in the castle where you hid. I took the pictures that you ruined from my wall. No one remembered me I was right after all. |
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This is why some of us have said that they've only scratched the surface in terms of what's possible with the "classic" type of gameplay. Though the bones have always been good, the rest, when you really think about it, have been kind of basic. Not bad, by any means, but there's a lot more they could do, for sure.
I know it's not meant to be the same. The only reason I keep mentioning AC is because of its similarities to SCC - I don't want SCC to end up that way. ------- "Tonight's forecast...dark." |
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