quote:

Originally posted by MKCC14:
It looks like there isnt going to have a crouch button...unless it is the "Y" button. Anyway I dont know what he is doing here, but he must be coruching here:

My eyes! It's so bright! I'm blinded!!


It does look like he's crouching, but that's a bad example, because there's a dude shooting at him by the window. So, I'm guessing that he's not sneaking.

quote:

Oh, and even in the presentation at Ubidays last year...wasnt Sam able to hide underneath the desk(also in SCDA), and there wasnt even a crowd around at the time so its not part of the "crowd stealth".

Yep, right before he jumped out and threw the enemy across the room.

Seriously, though, I wonder what that level looks like now...

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
He's picking up a pen to throw in the eyes of the opponent.
Or else he's using cover to grab a printer and throw it at his opponent.

His stance is aggressive and ready to move, not stealthy.

So Sam hiding under a desk waiting for a guard to pass by to come up behind him and knock him out isnt stealthy? Is this an aggresive action to you too?

To refresh your memory:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sxjr_9mPlVE&feature=related

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
He's picking up a pen to throw in the eyes of the opponent.
Or else he's using cover to grab a printer and throw it at his opponent.

His stance is aggressive and ready to move, not stealthy.

Yea it's really smart to lean back against wall when enemies are shooting at you . Now I see what Ubi meant when they said people got used to old SC, and I was just reading about that. It's cover, it's no crowd stealth.


MKCC14, I was just watching that pic on other site. I understand X button being the stealthly button makes you crouch behind the table, no sense as it isn't stealthy option in that picture. I'd like more than 3 buttons but we'll see what happens. Ubi said it's football style and it could work, but even football games use all buttons.

I have no suspicions of Conviction being too one sided, bad or not being SC game at all. And after visiting lots of Conviction releated sites I can say Conviction is very supported and waited, even in this playstationland.

God I wish I would have bought that finnish magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
He was never 'sneaking' on any picture.

He was sneaking behind desks as a guard was walking by in the GI exclusive last year. The devs pretty much stated that Sam still has the mechanics of a stealth agent. He can crouch and interact with walls, desks, everything to allow him to avoid being detected.

EDIT: All this talk about crowd stealth is distructing people from the fact that UBI have pretty much maintained the stealth GAMEPLAY. Sam still sneaks around, knocks out guards with one blow from behind etc Most everything critical to Sam's mission will take place indoors where he'll be free to sneak around to achieve his goal, albeit without the protection of L/S.

Sorry, Game Informer or w/e isn't sold here. Could you upload it?

quote:

Originally posted by Allankles:

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
He was never 'sneaking' on any picture.

He was sneaking behind desks as a guard was walking by in the GI exclusive last year. The devs pretty much stated that Sam still has the mechanics of a stealth agent. He can crouch and interact with walls, desks, everything to allow him to avoid being detected.

EDIT: All this talk about crowd stealth is distructing people from the fact that UBI have pretty much maintained the stealth GAMEPLAY. Sam still sneaks around, knocks out guards with one blow from behind etc Most everything critical to Sam's mission will take place indoors where he'll be free to sneak around to achieve his goal, albeit without the protection of L/S.

But, as I have imagined many times, if there's a dark corridor that doesn't have any light sources will I be instantly seen if i go stand there as it was Times square lighted? Or any dark places anywhere?
Nothing against the fact I can't sneak in shadows from start of level to end, but I'd like to see realism of light and dark.

I leave the game up to the creators of splinter cell to do what is best for the game. They're the gurus, masters, and originators of splinter cell. Just because light and shadow won't be the usual game play element in splinter cell doesn't mean the genre of stealth is dead. Stealth is the act of proceeding in covert way/manner. It doesn't mean going to the shadow to hide from enemies. A perfect example of using stealth in a new manner was Assassin's Creed social stealth. I bet the average stealth gamer didn't thought of that. But look how useful that stealth tactic was. I personally feel this game is going to be a true next gen game both as console game and as a splinter cell game. The pacing of the game and the story from Sam being a agent, double agent to fugitive is incredible. The character change is really cool. I will wait patiently for this game because I know when it comes out it's gonna a major hit. Thank you Ubisoft for creating an epic game.

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:

quote:

Originally posted by MKCC14:
It looks like there isnt going to have a crouch button...unless it is the "Y" button. Anyway I dont know what he is doing here, but he must be coruching here:

My eyes! It's so bright! I'm blinded!!


It does look like he's crouching, but that's a bad example, because there's a dude shooting at him by the window. So, I'm guessing that he's not sneaking.

quote:

Oh, and even in the presentation at Ubidays last year...wasnt Sam able to hide underneath the desk(also in SCDA), and there wasnt even a crowd around at the time so its not part of the "crowd stealth".

Yep, right before he jumped out and threw the enemy across the room.

Seriously, though, I wonder what that level looks like now...

Haha, he didnt throw him across the room, take another look, Sam comes from underneath the desk and knocks the guard out quickly...not making a noise. Then he walks into the next room and the guard sees him, thats when the fighting started.

Also, about the pic, so are you saying Sam will only be able to crouch when engaged in battle? Just because he crouches there doesnt mean he cant do it any other time. Just like other SC games...were there certain times when couldnt press that "B" button to crouch?

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
Sorry, Game Informer or w/e isn't sold here. Could you upload it?

I'll get the scans within the week, I have the mag somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
Sorry, Game Informer or w/e isn't sold here. Could you upload it?

Turns out this was posted but the devs mention that the interactivity is greatly increased and they show a few images there.

The second image here may not describe what I was talking about, but the devs talk about moving from 2000 animations to 10000 plus animations between DA and CT to Conviction. They go on to reference the idea that Sam will still have his stealth moves (and then some) but he'll be caught in an environment that forces him to think on his feet.

So Sam can sneak around and do a lot of different things he wasn't able to do in the previous games, thanks to the power of the havoc engine.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Vth_F_Smith_,

While everyone in this Forum is certainly appreciating your help Allankles, please understand that I had to remove these links, as magazine scans are not allowed here - scworld even knows that.

Browsing various sites, I found a much more longer (but french) version of the Ubi Days Conviction Presentation which shows a little bit more of both sides - Stealth (aka diversion - no, not the one you create by shooting gas tanks) & Action.

Keep in mind, this video shows the same pre-alpha build we've seen before which means you might see some bugs / glitches etc. It's not representing the final quality of the game.

The animations thing is called blending. There's no way they can have 10000 animations. Assuming 1 animation takes 5 hours (which is very short), a team of 10 animators would need 625 days to get to that number, each working 8 hours a day on them.
That's just not possible

They'll have like 50-100 animations which can blend. On top of that maybe a few hundred small ones for interaction with the environment.
The rest is generated on the fly (Sam grabbing a large pipe is the same animation as Sam grabbing a small pipe, but the grab is directed by the collision mesh, so 1 animation fits both).

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
The animations thing is called blending. There's no way they can have 10000 animations. Assuming 1 animation takes 5 hours (which is very short), a team of 10 animators would need 625 days to get to that number, each working 8 hours a day on them.
That's just not possible

They'll have like 50-100 animations which can blend. On top of that maybe a few hundred small ones for interaction with the environment.
The rest is generated on the fly (Sam grabbing a large pipe is the same animation as Sam grabbing a small pipe, but the grab is directed by the collision mesh, so 1 animation fits both).

So if old Splinter Cell had 2000 and Conviction is supposed to have 10000. Are you saying Conviction has less than old SCs, having just 100? Or that old SCs had 20 animations?

I don't think so. There will be significantly more, no matter the real numbers.

We could say Conviction has 5 times more animations than old.

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
The animations thing is called blending. There's no way they can have 10000 animations. Assuming 1 animation takes 5 hours (which is very short), a team of 10 animators would need 625 days to get to that number, each working 8 hours a day on them.
That's just not possible

They'll have like 50-100 animations which can blend. On top of that maybe a few hundred small ones for interaction with the environment.
The rest is generated on the fly (Sam grabbing a large pipe is the same animation as Sam grabbing a small pipe, but the grab is directed by the collision mesh, so 1 animation fits both).

Hey, I'm relaying what the developers have said, whether it's blending or not, the developers quite clearly state they have 10000+ animations for this game, it's in fine print in the GI magazine I scanned on this thread or some other.

Whether this is true or not cannot be determined. Either the devs are lying, or referring to blending or neither, and are indeed stating fact, doesn't matter.

The game has been in development for quite some time, it'll be about 3 years after March 2008 since they claimed they started on it after SCCT. A lot of things should have happened.

quote:

Originally posted by scworld:
The animations thing is called blending. There's no way they can have 10000 animations. Assuming 1 animation takes 5 hours (which is very short), a team of 10 animators would need 625 days to get to that number, each working 8 hours a day on them.
That's just not possible

They'll have like 50-100 animations which can blend. On top of that maybe a few hundred small ones for interaction with the environment.
The rest is generated on the fly (Sam grabbing a large pipe is the same animation as Sam grabbing a small pipe, but the grab is directed by the collision mesh, so 1 animation fits both).

It is possible actually. Assassin's Creed Altair has 10,000+ Character animations. If you do some research on that you will see that it is true. The same people that worked on Prince of Persia did it, to Quote:

quote:

10,000 plus.

That's how many character animations are loaded into Assassin's Creed, 700 of them alone contextual. To put things into perspective, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, developed by the same crack team at Ubisoft Montreal, features 500 character animations. And Prince remains to this day one of the finest animated games on the market. Get the picture?

Source IGN

You can do a google on Assassin's Creed 10,000 animations. I wouldn't put it past the guys working on Splinter Cell to be able to do the same, especially taking into consideration that they need a specific animation for different items in the game world. A good example for you, do a look up on Dead Rising, Capcom allowed the gamer to pick up each item, and they had to specifically create animations for each item, and there is over 1000 items in the game world.

Let me try to put it into perspective. The baseball bat, for example, has multiple attack animations, as the player can simply hit the attack button to swing, which will damage and knock back a few zombies at once, or they can hold down the attack button (making Frank go into a “batter-up” animation sequence) now when you throw the bat away it will have it's own throw animation. This is done for multiple objects. Vinyl records you can use to Frisbee or smash over someones head, the number of animations in Splinter Cell I would expect to be on par. So yes I don't think 10,000 to be far fetched.

I think you are missing his point. He is suggesting that they are not 10 000 separate animations, a lot of them are blends. So to use his pipe grabbing example, the guys at IGN are claiming that as two separate animations. In reality, it isn't.

The original point was there is 10,000 animations, Scworld is talking about something else. 10,000 animations is in the game.

quote:

The second image here may not describe what I was talking about, but the devs talk about moving from 2000 animations to 10000 plus animations between DA and CT to Conviction.

quote:

I think you are missing his point. He is suggesting that they are not 10 000 separate animations, a lot of them are blends. So to use his pipe grabbing example, the guys at IGN are claiming that as two separate animations. In reality, it isn't.

Yes his pipe grabbing one makes sence, in that case the same animation can be shared. But now look at Dead Rising as an example, thats where Convictions can be compared. Capcom had to create unique animations for each item in the game world none where the same. That means animations on a baseball bat aren't the same for another object such as a milk bottle or a lawn mower, they react differently and the poses for holding each 1 is different, each of them being thrown has their own unique animation, no blends.

If what scworld is saying is correct (and I would trust his judgement more than some than some reporter at IGN) then to actually have 10 000 unique animations would be a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources. To integrate factors such as collision detection and real physics to make each animation look different is a perfect substitute, but to advertise it as the same thing isn't true.

quote:

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
If what scworld is saying is correct (and I would trust his judgement more than some than some reporter at IGN) then to actually have 10 000 unique animations would be a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources. To integrate factors such as collision detection and real physics to make each animation look different is a perfect substitute, but to advertise it as the same thing isn't true.

Thats what I said when I first saw how they made it so you can realistically pick up lots of things and throw them, what a waste of time. It wont really make the game any more fun if you can throw an eraser and chalk and milk and ect...ect...ect...

Was that really a great selling point with Dead Rising? Did any one here think, "you know this is a fun game but It would be so great if I had more a variety of things to throw or hit zombies with?" It was the same if you hit 'em with a bat or a 2x4. I wonder if the object will disappear after you use it enough times, like Dead Rising.