I would like to see light/dark mixed with the social stealth concept. That would be so sweet. Like sneaking though an ally in the dark and emerging into a crowded street and blending in with the crowd then into a dark area again. That would be great!!! I hate the idea of taking out light/dark or restricting it to certain levels or areas but I would like to see it used in conjunction with other stealth tactics(ie: hiding around objects, smoke bombs, camo, disguises, distractions, and climbing over buildings). The gadgets and weapons are another aspect I will miss like hacking computer terminals and cameras. wow I really will miss that, maybe another series will take over what this series is abandoning.

In the new novel Sam has been on some CIA sanctioned training mission codenamed CROSSCUT -or something- with Jackie Fiest -yeah right- so that he can not only use his special ops experience on mission but be fully trained in spook tradecraft as well. This leads us nicely into what he's doing in Conviction and I think dual approach missions could work very well if done right

I can't wait to read the new book, the other SC books rocked.

SC.C being a stealth game, I think there should be multiple approaches to a problem and it should be upto the player to use the technique which suits best according to the situation.The concept of 'Social Stealth' is a refreshing change from the traditional espionage method,however in order to fully use social stealth things like communcation(verbal and non verbal),acting skills etc plays an important role.In addition to this day and night cycle would also be an important factor in Social Stealth. Other modern day espionage techniques like 'deaddrop', manipulating people
, tradecraft techniques should also be introduced and this would also give the players a good mental workout and also this would account for realism. So I think the developers should consider such factors if they want to utilize the social stealth and not to mention the A.I. has to be really strong .These are the things I would like to see in SC.C .

quote:

SC.C being a stealth game, I think there should be multiple approaches to a problem and it should be upto the player to use the technique which suits best according to the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by soron:
I don't really like the social/distracting/hiding behind a object stealth. it appears that is all the stealth this game has to offer. As for the combat, it looks cool but will get old fast (see new "game spy" and "IGN" reviews for "AC"). My favorite stealth tactics are the L/S and booby traps. I also like the silent weapons and sniper tactics. If this whole game is anything like the level shown it will be seriously gay.

The concept of 'light and shadow' is a very cool technique ,however it needs to be properly executed. Stealth techniques like this are generally appropiate for jungle operations and in some cases like a dark alley etc. So even if the developers introduces 'L and S'(Sc.c or SC.6) , they should keep in mind that the environment also plays an impt.role in such cases and not like in the previous games ,were Sam is hiding and a nearby guard doesn't even seem to notice him.Other than this I would also like to see some disguises which also plays an impt. role in the dynamic world of espionage and by disguises I mean not only changing of clothes but changing of appearences, voice, body language and personality.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:

quote:

Originally posted by soron:
I don't really like the social/distracting/hiding behind a object stealth. it appears that is all the stealth this game has to offer. As for the combat, it looks cool but will get old fast (see new "game spy" and "IGN" reviews for "AC"). My favorite stealth tactics are the L/S and booby traps. I also like the silent weapons and sniper tactics. If this whole game is anything like the level shown it will be seriously gay.

The concept of 'light and shadow' is a very cool technique ,however it needs to be properly executed. Stealth techniques like this are generally appropiate for jungle operations and in some cases like a dark alley etc. So even if the developers introduces 'L and S'(Sc.c or SC.6) , they should keep in mind that the environment also plays an impt.role in such cases and not like in the previous games ,were Sam is hiding and a nearby guard doesn't even seem to notice him.Other than this I would also like to see some disguises which also plays an impt. role in the dynamic world of espionage and by disguises I mean not only changing of clothes but changing of appearences, voice, body language and personality.

You make some fair points, but I still think that for a game people need to suspend their disbelief. The SC games have never been super-realistic game, but I think a super-realistic spy game would be pretty boring. Even so, Conviction is no more realistic than previous SC in my opinion.

Yeah, sometimes it may get boring ,however since they are introducing 'Social Stealth' stuff like these(changing of voice, appearences communication etc)plays an impt. role.However this can be avoided by introducing multiple approaches to the problem ie either you use the traditional ninjistu technique or blend in the society.Moreover in the Splintercell Franchise, Sam has exhibited a wide variety of athletic moves , so if the developers includes them in this game ,this should be an asset to Sam in both of the espionage methods.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:
however since they are introducing 'Social Stealth' stuff like these

It's a buzz word ; be it 'social stealth' or 'active stealth' or whatever name variation.

The context of stealth in Conviction is still very framed in, and limited ; areas, both indoor and outdoor
sprawling with a mixture of police officers on state-of-alert ( since they're on duty to spot this fugitive guy, Sam ),
artificially mixed with non-assuming civilians who seemingly go about their limited business.

I don't think Ubi has much headspace to broaden and or specify the context ; 'just-a-public-place' with people doing
not so special 'public-place' things ; thus, blending in techniques don't require to be anymore specific than such context.

Is Conviction going to have a level where there's a clown parade or whatever hilarious activity ? If it would, than social stealth
would require a clown suit and clowny behaviour to not be spotted ! Would this 'level' be free of suspiciously many police patrols !?

So, in one hand ; i'm saying that Conviction doesn't have much headroom for contextual variation either and on the on the other hand,
even if it would have such broad context ; would it be something you'd wish in a stealth game at all ?

To conclude ; i think this social stealth buzz is just as much, if not more, limiting stealth gameplay than the very specific context of
being a black ops field agent. The cpu power just gets spread out with social stealth in non specific behaviour algorythms where it could
have been focussed into very advanced patrolling-guard specific Ai. To simulate DIVERSE interesting, believable Ai in a crowd context which doesn't limit itself to non-specific public places/work office behaviour and behaviour monitoring Ai ; you'd need at least a 100 Cray supercomputers.

I'd say social stealth is the whine with alot of water added.

quote:

Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:
Yeah, sometimes it may get boring ,however since they are introducing 'Social Stealth' stuff like these(changing of voice, appearences communication etc)plays an impt. role.However this can be avoided by introducing multiple approaches to the problem ie either you use the traditional ninjistu technique or blend in the society.Moreover in the Splintercell Franchise, Sam has exhibited a wide variety of athletic moves , so if the developers includes them in this game ,this should be an asset to Sam in both of the espionage methods.

I think you missed my point, I was saying that SC for me does not get boring, whereas, according to reviewers, AC (which for comparison's sake is likened to Conviction) does.

quote:

Blending in with society is a traditional Ninjitsu technique. Just because they always show Ninjas as black clad rogues in movies does not mean ninjas only sneak around at night. In fact the way the ninjas were phased out; they where hired by the empire to protect the royal palace posing as gardeners and laborers. Most of the time they did this instead of the rogue routine. Poison was also widely used as a weapon by the ninja instead of the sword.

What's your point?

@Knot3D: I agree. It is no less limiting than L&S. People need to stop thinking of boundaries and parameters as a bad thing; in my opinion a game with no limits is impossibly by today's technological standards and probably wouldn't do very well. Remember, as much as people complain about linear titles, nearly every game that gets 90%+ on gamerankings will have some form of linear storyline.

EDIT (forgot to add this bit): When limits ARE a bad thing is when they are advertised as not existing. To use the AC example again, the game had the feature that if you could see it, you could reach it; imagine how pissed off you would be if this turned out to be false and there were a few sections where the backdrop was purely decoration. You certainly would be much more annoyed than if the game had never said anything about no environmental boundaries.

I don't think it was particularly relevant to the topic... it was only really linked by a few incidental words which I don't think the poster would have thoroughly researched before saying

Well, we are different individuals with different taste. I was just trying to explain 'what I like to see in the game' and I appologise for my words.

If they do manage to successfully put back the L/S then this game will be a must buy. Mixing the social stealth with L/S and the fighting abilities would make this a sweet game indeed. I think they should make it so you have to use the crowd at certain points in order to reach certain objectives like when you are trying to get close to the building to be infiltrated and then inside it is dark.

They should keep Sam's look however give him a civilian version of NVGs and a home made silencer on a Glock instead of the military FiveSeven. He can also have home made explosives and smoke bombs instead of grenades.

He could use cheap cell phones for bugging because they pick up every thing. He could have a mirror on a telescopic rod instead of the wide angle cam he always slips under doors.

Lock pick are ez to come by. He should carry his fixed blade knife still. you don't have to wear a black outfit to blend in with shadows any dark color will work so his new look will work just fine. Instead of knock out gas he should use pepper spray which can be ducted taped to a m80 for the grenade effect (very effective). Instead of sticky shockers a stun gun works fine.
Those little 1 liter plastic soda bottles can be made in to inconspicuous distraction devices with water and a MRE heater (just fill half way with water and when your are ready to place it just drop in the heater and close the cap tight and throw it in a bush or trash can and in 2-3 min it will sound like a shotgun).

The point is just because Sam does not have all his high tech gadgets does not mean he can't find or make low tech replacements that work just as well (you can even find a lot of military equipment in soldier of fortune magazine. There are even civilian versions of his sonic mic (directional microphone).

To say that L/S and his cool gear is out of the question for him to get is lame and the "black market" idea works but why buy stuff you can make in a garage? With Sam's experience why can't he make improvised weapons and explosives? He should also have a safe house where he can go between missions' after all he works in black ops he should know the importance of back up plans so he should have had one set up long b4 he became a fugitive.

Like in DA he should have a practice course and firing range set up there to practice his skills. They should use the condemned but still intact JBA headquarters only with a few changes in the obstacle course in order to practice crowd stealth. Where the detonators were set up could bomb making and the garage could be where he makes silencers ect... I would eventually have the cops find out where it is and raid and he has to escape but for the first few missions it would be cool to have a place to practice his skills.

I would have him carry a satchel bag instead of a back pack so he can have easy access to his gear. If he has access to military weapons maybe his secret stash, he should carry a silenced P90 because it is small has high capacity and high rate of fire. Most machine pistols are just too hard to control but the P90 is very Ez to use and the 50 round mags are really nice and shoots the same rounds as the FiveSeven pistol he usually carries. The effective range of the P90 on a point target is 200m and the FiveSeven is 50m. I think its a lot less with the subsonic rounds needed for the silencer. I think also there should be a notoriety rating like in Hitman Blood Money where if you are more stealthy in preceding levels the guards wont recognize you as readily when you are in the light.

I would like to see how a crowd would react to him shooting out a light instead of just one guard. The fun this game could generate like throwing a pepper spay can taped to a lit M80 into a crowd and watch the panic ensue from the shadows...lol.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: soron,

Any one ells have any more ideas on what you would like to see in this game or the next SC?

The concept of 'safe house' is appreciable , however since Sam is a fugitive now , he has to change his 'safe house' often and without leaving any trace while changing. I would like to see this and it also accounts for thrill and excitement(according to my view). Other than this I would love to see some free roaming like 'GTA'especially the physical status bar (stamina,nutrition etc).

quote:

Originally posted by Stealthguy1986:
The concept of 'safe house' is appreciable , however since Sam is a fugitive now , he has to change his 'safe house' often and without leaving any trace while changing.

If you are going to go that rout then he would change his appearance every lev. too.

[/QUOTE]I would like to see this and it also accounts for thrill and excitement(according to my view). Other than this I would love to see some free roaming like 'GTA'especially the physical status bar (stamina,nutrition etc).[/QUOTE]

I don't know about the GTA style for Splinter Cell, that might kill the cinematic effect the series has always had. Maybe if it was done right where every area is special and not cookie cuter buildings but really diverse areas build just like normal lev.s. The problem with the GTA type games is the buildings and areas are rarely built well because there is just way too much for the devs to make details on and that is not really the splinter cell style. SC is a very detailed series of games. They must have architects developing the buildings in the games. They have really done a great job so far and I want to see this continue in the future.

Some gear like his hacking device would need to be obtained (stolen) from R&D labs of 3E and would make a nice side mission or even one of the first missions where Sam has to escape 3E after his conviction. It would be cool to break into or out of 3E in this game and I'm sure it will be apart of this game. I would like to see a room with all Sam's past gear from all the games hanging on the wall and some advanced prototypes with active camo or something. Maybe you could steal this equipment and decide what devices and outfits you want to use from each Splinter Cell game (of course if you wear any these out side in a crowd it would be suspicious). I think this would be a great way to update or obtain your equipment and would fit in nicely with the story line.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: soron,

It would be really cool if Sam had to break into the white house. He could use the crowd steath to follow a tour and sneak away to talk to the president. He would have to get past all the secret service and white house security. That would be a tough mission. Maybe a disguise and a fake press ID would be in order or even a secret service disguise he would have to shave his beard for this one (last mission?).

I would also like to see Sam look more like sam from SCCT. Did he get colored contacts?

I wonder if this game is all going to be based in Washington DC. I would like to see Sam meet a contact in a busy mall. This would be a good place to show off the crowd stealth. He could meet a contact (maybe a friend in 3E) inside a movie theater. If they bring back L/S then it would be an ideal spot if the meeting is interrupted. That would be a cool place to have L/S and crowd stealth as the movie lights flash as the crowd panics. That would be an excellent visual for a commercial; Sam running in a crowd in the flashing movie light (poss. preview for SC the movie on the screen) and running up to a cop and slamming him into the screen, down the steps, over the seats, or over the entrance rails. Plenty of exits there too.

Hehehe, I was just thinking that what if Sam was being chased in the mall and he stopped at a sporting goods store with lots of baseball bats, weights and bowling balls to throw at ppl.

Maybe another location could be a hospital at night. Sam could throw syringes and scalpels at ppl. that would make me laugh. Ah and imagine all the fun he could have with a defibrillator. A doctor's surgical mask and lab coat would do well as a disguise. Maybe the mission could be to talk to his contact if he got shot after the failed meeting at the theater in the mall.