I read this statement from an interview here.

quote:

Exactly, and also to be more focused on the way that we distribute them. In past, Sam had the gadgets and weapons at the beginning of a mission, and it was up to the player if they wanted to use them or not, some players were only using two gadgets throughout the game. How many players were using the Sticky Shockers and shooting them into water? There are so many other things that you could do too. Not so many players went around discovering them, so with gadgets now we're going give them to players and push them to use them and have fun with them, and make sure that they experience everything that we provide.

The one part of that that is concerning me is this,

quote:

now we're going give them to players and push them to use them

It sounds as though they are going to put you in situations where the only way out is to use an item, blow up a car, throw a computer. I am concerned that there will be too much pressure, and less freedom.

Any time a producer says they will push, it usually means force, and that concerns me.

Any thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:
I read this statement from an interview here.

quote:

Exactly, and also to be more focused on the way that we distribute them. In past, Sam had the gadgets and weapons at the beginning of a mission, and it was up to the player if they wanted to use them or not, some players were only using two gadgets throughout the game. How many players were using the Sticky Shockers and shooting them into water? There are so many other things that you could do too. Not so many players went around discovering them, so with gadgets now we're going give them to players and push them to use them and have fun with them, and make sure that they experience everything that we provide.

The one part of that that is concerning me is this,

quote:

now we're going give them to players and push them to use them

It sounds as though they are going to put you in situations where the only way out is to use an item, blow up a car, throw a computer. I am concerned that there will be too much pressure, and less freedom.

Any time a producer says they will push, it usually means force, and that concerns me.

Any thoughts?

Well, it's the nature of a fugitive to constantly stay under pressure until he's safe, isn't it?

I think what he meant is, that instead of just placing you in a situation and then let you all the time you want to decide what you're going to do, you'll be constantly under pressure because authorities are looking for you. Have you ever seen "The Fugitive" with Harrisson Ford?



They could, let's say, place you inside a building - a hospital corridor for example (just to stay true to "The Fugitive") and while you're moving forward you hear the voice of a cop. At the same moment someone opens a window next to you, the cop sees your reflection in the window recognizes your face and starts walking towards you - he's alerted. Now you only have a few items at your disposal, because the bag you carry with you, can only hold a few.

What are you going to do?

• Draw a previously obtained MP5 and shoot the cop (that will draw a lot of attention to you, maybe even alert his colleagues)?
  
  
• Use a cupboard to block his way in order to gain some time (that might make your escape successful)?
  
  
• Try to create some kind of diversion with things in your environment (in order to break his line of sight long enough to escape)?
  
  
• Wait 'til he reached you and then knocking him out via CQC (again this might cause an alert)?
  
  
• Use other gadgets from your bag (maybe there's something you could use to distract him or decept him)?
  
  
• hide in one of the patient beds (if he didn't see it you might be successful unless he's checking the beds, of course)?
  
  
• Grab a lab coat / pretend to be a doctor in order to use the "staff only" exists etc.?
  
  
• Raise a fire alarm to create a panic (that should hold him off long enough for you to get away?
  
  
• Simply run away (he'll probably chase you)?
  
  
• Hide below a cardboard box...oops wrong game.
  
  
• etc.

I don't know if they would give you all these opportunities in such a scenario because I don't even know if there will be a hospital map in the game but the point is:

You'd have to react outside of a "safe zone" because otherwise the cop will react which means he'll try to arrest or neutralize you.

Hmm....now that I came up with such an example...that would make a nice forum game, I think.

As long as I have multiple options for any given situation, I am ok with it, it's only when they go like this:

Guard sees you in the hospital, your choices are,

-throw a hospital bed at him so you can get away.

(Technically that's not one of the gadgets, but I couldn't think of a gadget that would work in that scenario.)

I think that makes my point, if I had all the options you described for every situation, then by all means bring it on, but I don't want to be forced to use a specific gadget such as the only way out of a situation is to blow up a hot dog stand with my gadget, if I am doing the mission properly, then I should rarely be put in a situation where I have to create that kind of diversion.

You have to remember, Sam has been the invisible ninja agent for over 5 years, he isn't suddenly incapable of going unnoticed.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:
As long as I have multiple options for any given situation, I am ok with it, it's only when they go like this:

Guard sees you in the hospital, your choices are,

-throw a hospital bed at him so you can get away.

(Technically that's not one of the gadgets, but I couldn't think of a gadget that would work in that scenario.)

I don't know anyone that could THROW a bed (yes, I know you haven't been serious).

quote:

I think that makes my point, if I had all the options you described for every situation, then by all means bring it on, but I don't want to be forced to use a specific gadget such as the only way out of a situation is to blow up a hot dog stand with my gadget, if I am doing the mission properly, then I should rarely be put in a situation where I have to create that kind of diversion.

We're talking about Splinter Cell here and in SC you always had various options - I really don't think they'll change that because it adds a lot of replay value to their games and makes them much more immersive. In fact with SCC they prove they're willing to give you even more freedom.

quote:

You have to remember, Sam has been the invisible ninja agent for over 5 years, he isn't suddenly incapable of going unnoticed.

True, but then again he always had some nice little High Tech gadgets which helped him to stay unnoticed i.e. the photo cells on his suit, the sound meter + the OPSAT (stealth meter) and now without them...let's hope he didn't get a bit too rusty.

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
I don't know anyone that could THROW a bed (yes, I know you haven't been serious).

Well, hospital beds are on wheels, right?

What about pushing it, à la the shopping cart in Dead Rising? Plowing people down could be fun...

quote:

I don't know anyone that could THROW a bed (yes, I know you haven't been serious).

Well... I guess you could throw a nurse at the guard, easier than a hospital bed, and much more distracting if she screams. LOL!

quote:

We're talking about Splinter Cell here and in SC you always had various options - I really don't think they'll change that because it adds a lot of replay value to their games and makes them much more immersive. In fact with SCC they prove they're willing to give you even more freedom.

Well, to some degree yes, but the actual missions on DA felt very linear to me, they gave you a number of options, but it still felt very forced most of the time. You usually only had to ways that you could accomplish a goal, either JBA way, or NSA way, what about a third option called SAM way, where you do neither?

What about the ability to actually fail a mission entirely, but it doesn't end the game, you simply pay for it later on?

quote:

True, but then again he always had some nice little High Tech gadgets which helped him to stay unnoticed i.e. the photo cells on his suit, the sound meter + the OPSAT (stealth meter) and now without them...let's hope he didn't get a bit too rusty.

Now, in all fairness, the last mission of double agent leaves Sam with all of those items, once the bomb is disarmed, and he escapes the S.W.A.T. team, and disarms the second bomb, he still has his suit, his goggles, his OPSAT, all his meters...

...Frankly, why would the best spy in the whole world lose all of those items over the next two years?

Oh, I know, Third Echelon seized all of his assets, and now Sam has to sell the one thing that he will now have to buy back with, you guessed it, BLOOD, SWEAT, & TEARS!

I hope you understand why I don't believe this, anyone who knows Sam, knows that he probably has a number of secret bank accounts, and probably money in his mattress, he doesn't trust everybody implicitly you know.

I would like to know what happens to all his gear, is it burned to the ground in a staged fire at his house? Well, where the heck is his safehouse?

quote:

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
Well, hospital beds are on wheels, right?

What about pushing it, à la the shopping cart in Dead Rising?

Never played Dead Rising since it's not the kind of game I prefer, but I guess in such a scenario pushing a bed could also be an option, yes.

Yeah, I think pushing hospital beds around, mowing down innocent sick people falls into the realm of terrorist, or completely deranged. Should be a mini game on mario party, then that game might be fun.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:
Well... I guess you could throw a nurse at the guard, easier than a hospital bed, and much more distracting if she screams. LOL!

I used to know better things you can do with nurses than throwing them at guards...when I was young.

quote:

Well, to some degree yes, but the actual missions on DA felt very linear to me, they gave you a number of options, but it still felt very forced most of the time.

That's why SCC's concept is made with a sandbox style. Sandbox games are much more open and give you more freedom to play them like you want.

quote:

You usually only had to ways that you could accomplish a goal, either JBA way, or NSA way, what about a third option called SAM way, where you do neither?

Choosing the JBA or NSA way, would make it Sam's option. But yes, I know what you mean.

quote:

What about the ability to actually fail a mission entirely, but it doesn't end the game, you simply pay for it later on?

That would definitely be nice.

quote:

Now, in all fairness, the last mission of double agent leaves Sam with all of those items, once the bomb is disarmed, and he escapes the S.W.A.T. team, and disarms the second bomb, he still has his suit, his goggles, his OPSAT, all his meters...

...Frankly, why would the best spy in the whole world lose all of those items over the next two years?

We'll know that once SCC is out or once a dev reveals more about the game.

quote:

Oh, I know, Third Echelon seized all of his assets, and now Sam has to sell the one thing that he will now have to buy back with, you guessed it, BLOOD, SWEAT, & TEARS!

Iiieeks.

quote:

I hope you understand why I don't believe this, anyone who knows Sam, knows that he probably has a number of secret bank accounts, and probably money in his mattress, he doesn't trust everybody implicitly you know.

Yet he always trusted the NSA or rather the Third Echelon.

quote:

I would like to know what happens to all his gear, is it burned to the ground in a staged fire at his house? Well, where the heck is his safehouse?

Maybe Williams hasn't been very happy with Sam's decisions back in SCDA, decided to take his gear away and send him on a few days leave or maybe Sam retired, maybe he had an accident while he was jogging or training his Krav Maga and has then been brought to a hospital, maybe he was in civil and bought some Hot Dogs and a newspaper. Who (except the devs) knows.

quote:

Yet he always trusted the NSA or rather the Third Echelon.

Well, to some degree, he mainly trusted Lambert, and Grim, he has had his share of disputes with Lambert, and if I remember correctly in pandora, has the opportunity to disobey orders and not kill dahlia because he doesn't trust, or agree with what he is being told.

Plus, the end of DA has him already being named as a fugitive, if you listen to all the talking during the credits, they make it seem as though you're already on the run.

I guess he might have gone back to base, left his gear, and then be framed, but that would be irritating.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:
I guess he might have gone back to base, left his gear, and then be framed, but that would be irritating.

We'll certainly get a lot more answers the closer we get to the Release Date.

quote:

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:
I guess he might have gone back to base, left his gear, and then be framed, but that would be irritating.

We'll certainly get a lot more answers the closer we get to the Release Date.

Well, if we don't, be prepared to do a lot of blinking.

I think the problem here is that they gave us too much gadgets to use in previous games. More than half of them you barely needed. By the end of a mission Im sure people didnt use all 60 bullets in the SC20k and 30 in the SCPistol, along with all of those sticky shockers, air foils, grenades, mines, etc.

I think they are just saying that they will give the player less items to use. Forcing you to use your gadgets carefully.

quote:

I think the problem here is that they gave us too much gadgets to use in previous games. More than half of them you barely needed. By the end of a mission Im sure people didnt use all 60 bullets in the SC20k and 30 in the SCPistol, along with all of those sticky shockers, air foils, grenades, mines, etc.

I think they are just saying that they will give the player less items to use. Forcing you to use your gadgets carefully.

Well, I don't think they gave us too many, because you have to remember the new people joining the series. When most of us first started playing the game, back with number one, there were many times that all the bullets were gone, and all the gadgets, respectively on different missions.

Once we progressed, we expect all the newcomers to progress instantly, but it doesn't happen.

What I would love to see, is more than 2 difficulties, and more options on equipment, if they had an elite difficulty that crossed the lines of hard into the realms of insanely difficult, like no alarms, no killing unless directly ordered, no bodies found, etc... then we would be going somewhere.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:

quote:

I think the problem here is that they gave us too much gadgets to use in previous games. More than half of them you barely needed. By the end of a mission Im sure people didnt use all 60 bullets in the SC20k and 30 in the SCPistol, along with all of those sticky shockers, air foils, grenades, mines, etc.

I think they are just saying that they will give the player less items to use. Forcing you to use your gadgets carefully.

Well, I don't think they gave us too many, because you have to remember the new people joining the series. When most of us first started playing the game, back with number one, there were many times that all the bullets were gone, and all the gadgets, respectively on different missions.

Once we progressed, we expect all the newcomers to progress instantly, but it doesn't happen.

What I would love to see, is more than 2 difficulties, and more options on equipment, if they had an elite difficulty that crossed the lines of hard into the realms of insanely difficult, like no alarms, no killing unless directly ordered, no bodies found, etc... then we would be going somewhere.

As the series progressed we got more gadgets than we needed, especially in SCCT. There is an elite difficulty in SCCT and SCDA. Where they give you no ammo and gadgets(except for necessary like the lockpick).

quote:

As the series progressed we got more gadgets than we needed, especially in SCCT. There is an elite difficulty in SCCT and SCDA. Where they give you no ammo and gadgets(except for necessary like the lockpick).

Are you playing on pc?

Because on 360 there is normal, and hard, and hard doesn't really change the game very much, you still have ammo most of the time, and you almost always have a few gadgets.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:

quote:

As the series progressed we got more gadgets than we needed, especially in SCCT. There is an elite difficulty in SCCT and SCDA. Where they give you no ammo and gadgets(except for necessary like the lockpick).

Are you playing on pc?

Because on 360 there is normal, and hard, and hard doesn't really change the game very much, you still have ammo most of the time, and you almost always have a few gadgets.

You don't start with bullets, but you can collect them in a mission.

On the old-gen, you couldn't even collect them (if I'm remembering correctly).

Either's fine by me.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:

quote:

I think the problem here is that they gave us too much gadgets to use in previous games. More than half of them you barely needed. By the end of a mission Im sure people didnt use all 60 bullets in the SC20k and 30 in the SCPistol, along with all of those sticky shockers, air foils, grenades, mines, etc.

I think they are just saying that they will give the player less items to use. Forcing you to use your gadgets carefully.

Well, I don't think they gave us too many, because you have to remember the new people joining the series. When most of us first started playing the game, back with number one, there were many times that all the bullets were gone, and all the gadgets, respectively on different missions.

Once we progressed, we expect all the newcomers to progress instantly, but it doesn't happen.

hehe I wasn't one of those players! I didn't even know we had all those cool gadgets until I was halfway through the 1st one when my friend came over and told me! lol!

I gotta agree with MKCC14. They did give us way too many gadgets later on. I could understand in the first one with all those missions where you had to go insane and "clear out" certain areas after they figured out you were there like in missions like Abattoir but they went kinda overboard later on.

I like the idea of having to be scarce with your gadgets, having to use them but carefully. I also like that you get to use your surrounding/environment as a gadget/weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by JediWithASniper:

quote:

As the series progressed we got more gadgets than we needed, especially in SCCT. There is an elite difficulty in SCCT and SCDA. Where they give you no ammo and gadgets(except for necessary like the lockpick).

Are you playing on pc?

Because on 360 there is normal, and hard, and hard doesn't really change the game very much, you still have ammo most of the time, and you almost always have a few gadgets.

Well, since I do have a gamerscore in my sig, I dont think Im playing on pc. The xbox version of SCDA had an elite difficulty